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Christians that don't believe in giants

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I still don't think your passage pertains to heaven though.
In Revelation 19:11-14 John writes "11 Next I saw heaven opened, and there before me was a white horse. Sitting on it was the one called Faithful and True, and it is in righteousness that he passes judgment and goes to battle. 12 His eyes were like a fiery flame, and on his head were many royal crowns. And he had a name written which no one knew but himself. 13 He was wearing a robe that had been soaked in blood, and the name by which he is called is, “THE WORD OF GOD.” 14 The armies of heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses." How can that not pertain to Heaven?
 
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Revelation 19:14 says "14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.", nothing about the four colored horses. Funny thing about the 4 horses of color though, they're the colors that are on the Muslim flag.... I wonder if there's any correlation. So, if there are horses in Heaven, why wouldn't there be other animals, including animals we haven't seen yet? The New Jerusalem won't be on Earth, it'll be in the sky.
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It will be brought down From heaven by God to be here on the new earth.

The subject has been whether angels us, and animals have souls -- which Is Way off the subject of this thread. And then whether or not Animals have souls and whether they'd be in heaven.

And then someone brought up horses in Revelations.
 
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Maybe this gets a bit confusing because it's talking about heaven and the sky and there's a third heaven.

We're being told about main events happening in the future. There's a Lot of future left -- so -- people have a soul / spirit that Can accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior. Animals are alive but do not have language that we people can communicate with them in. And angels are spirit beings that Can take on the form of people but are Not real people.

So -- I'm more concerned about people who Do have a soul that we know will either spent eternity in heaven or in hell.
 
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Maybe this gets a bit confusing because it's talking about heaven and the sky and there's a third heaven.

We're being told about main events happening in the future. There's a Lot of future left -- so -- people have a soul / spirit that Can accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior. Animals are alive but do not have language that we people can communicate with them in. And angels are spirit beings that Can take on the form of people but are Not real people.

So -- I'm more concerned about people who Do have a soul that we know will either spent eternity in heaven or in hell.
I think our souls are who we are and it's our minds that choose whether or not to follow Jesus, and our minds are part of our souls. Our souls are eternal, where we spend that eternity depends on what our minds choose. If our souls are who we are, there's no reason angels wouldn't have souls either, they have free will too. As far as the New Jerusalem goes, its dimensions are bigger than the Middle East, and I doubt if it will fit anywhere on this planet, but the planet will be made new, so who knows.
 
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@exsurfbum -- take a look at Romans 10:9-10 -- '"That is you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

It's part of both -- we Do have knowledge in our head / our intellect. We need to be able to acknowledge what sin Is and that we have done some sinning / told a lie for instance. We need to realize our need For salvation. And - like the verse says -- belief in your heart --not just 'head' knowledge -- but heart acceptance.

The situation with lots of people is that they have lots of 'head knowledge' of God / Jesus Christ and even of salvation. But it's never gotten to their Heart on a Personal basis.

So -- what is your point about angels -- that they , too, can be saved?

Revelation 21:10 - 21 vs 27 "but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of life. Then chapter 22: 1-5.
The description of the New Jerusalem found in 21: 10-21. Dimensions and everything.
 
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What I was saying is one error in the Bible makes the entire body of work a lie. We can all accept that as a fact. Thus, the efforts to teach that there are any errancies in scripture, at all, is dangerous.

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning G-d created the heaven and the earth

How many churches contradict that very first verse? How many schools support this verse? The very first verse, made out to be a lie. Back to the topic of giants, this is used to make the Bible seem like the ramblings of a delusional mind by the secular world. Interestingly, this is where we get our demons from. The account of the giants tells of the tampering of DNA. Macro-evolution teaches we are evolving, and have already progressed through numerous stages of change. Erase the validity of the account of the giants, and we have believers who have no Biblical reason to reject mankind's latest venture to upgrade itself through genetic tampering and become "gods". A seemingly minor quibble is in fact a potentially fatal flaw in Biblical interpretation.

Back to the original posts question: "Will these types of Christians be deceived..."

I say yes, for the most part. They are not grounded in the word, and left entirely vulnerable to misinterpret the times and the Beast.
Well, Chinese scientists tried to implant human DNA in chimpanzees as to investigate if they could get smart as any human. Even the MIT was aware of their intentions. They learned that those animals got slower than unmodified ones to learn new concepts but had a larger potential. Unexpectedly their test subjects died in a matter of months or over a year later. Then scientific community was alarmed about this as we should be! This was published earlier this year!

Weren't Goliath and his king true giants? Didn't the Bible tell us how large his king's bed was? Even nowadays we have seen people that grow beyond the 6 foot or 1.90 m limit and think it's normal! So why can't we just accept that giants did exist? Those that reject that just prefer to listen to the world and their pseudo scientific fairy tales.
 
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Bendito -- Hispanic people do tend to be Short -- so Tall to Them -- Giant to them -- Might not be all that Tall.

Kind of like the short child -- he's around grandpa or uncles who are Way Up There -- as the child has to look Way up. In reality -- as the child gets taller and reaches his height -- Grandpa or the uncles were probably close to 6 feet tall, but not Giants.

And That's the way Indians dressed. Off the land. They were much hardier than we are.
Huh? That sounds more like pride than actual facts. There are tall people among Hispanic or Latinos, the thing is that they don't feel the need to move to the US or EU as often as poor people do. What happens is that indigenous tribes are still quite poor, thus letting then get less access to enough food and variety of food than privileged people. Then there are the mestizos who longer are indigenous people but they still needs to improve their living conditions as to let the next generation grow a little bit taller than the previous one. Oh no, it's not evolution but just getting back what should have been normal under the best conditions. Let's say you have a kid that doesn't drink milk, nor eats vegetables nor meat then that kid would later on stay way behind the average growth of other kids. His or her descendants would be affected and then slowly grow a bit taller than their parents, unless your kid's partner were quite tall. Thus access to food also affects DNA, especially the lack of food.
 
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Right, that should be a given for mature Christians, but where do you get the idea that only humans have souls? I was under the impression that every living creature that the Lord creates has a soul/spirit, and that's a danger of scientists fabricating chimeras, without a soul they can easily be possessed by a demon.
Animals do have breath provided by God Himself, but when they die, only that breath leaves their body. They never possessed souls for they only exists while they are living here in earth. For their glory is to serve man. We also know that birds need angelic guidance to fly just as we learned how an angel let an ass speak in human tongue like in Balaam's times. Without direct or indirect guidance of God, most of their impressive features would be lost in no time. It's just that like unbelievers they take things for granted. Only God's direct presence can grant them some sort of intelligence to realize He is around or He is to be praised. It'd be the same with the stones if people hadn't been able to praise the anointed King when He entered in Jerusalem.

Yes, animals can be possessed by demons if that pleases them somehow. Or have you forgotten about the serpent that fooled Eve? It was possessed by the devil and lost its legs and that's why we all know snakes walk on their bellies till today and beyond. It's not impossible nowadays thanks to man's fallen state, sadly.

Be careful those that read books like Enoch and others. Paul already warned us they were just Jewish fables. Also recall what happened to king Solomon for listening to the world's wisdom.
 
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Be careful those that read books like Enoch and others. Paul already warned us they were just Jewish fables. Also recall what happened to king Solomon for listening to the world's wisdom.
Those books were in the Bible until about 600 years ago, and they are still in the cannon in some countries. Paul didn't mention the book of Enoch, and the book of Enoch was quoted in a few books of the Bible we currently have.
 
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Well, I don't think that's true, plus the KJV might have included Enoch only in the apocrypha section and only long time ago. How can you be sure they weren't just talking about Enoch instead of mentioning the so called book of Enoch? Besides it wasn't written before the fourth century AD and its author was clearly Jewish...

By the way, the assumption that the microchip would be implanted in order to change people's DNA is false. Even if nanobots were in use, there's no way that programmers can assure you that their programming won't get corrupted or could get stopped somehow. People could just go through an electromagnetic pulse to disable them. Anyway, the true use of those chips is to provide your GPS location at all times and let the government know what you're buying at any specific place at any given time. Yeah, it'd be a real technological tyranny! That's what the 666 reflects, technology used as means of deceiving people. Just like virtual reality and online videogames fools those that love them, those chips will make people think that "they are convenient for they can't leave them behind at home" and "their dogs won't chew and eat them"; perhaps they will even think that they bring them "peace and safety" as if police would get some sort of distress call. Really, people can come up with as many poor excuses as there are ice cream flavors. The microchips and the cellphones and the police states and all those false teaches and prophets are the giants we should care about nowadays.

Now I wonder... what if the abomination of desolation is an image of a six-toe-giant? I know, we aren't provided any specific details concerning its appearance, but that would be a good reason to call it abomination.
:laughing:
 
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Well, I don't think that's true, plus the KJV might have included Enoch only in the apocrypha section and only long time ago. How can you be sure they weren't just talking about Enoch instead of mentioning the so called book of Enoch? Besides it wasn't written before the fourth century AD and its author was clearly Jewish...

By the way, the assumption that the microchip would be implanted in order to change people's DNA is false. Even if nanobots were in use, there's no way that programmers can assure you that their programming won't get corrupted or could get stopped somehow. People could just go through an electromagnetic pulse to disable them. Anyway, the true use of those chips is to provide your GPS location at all times and let the government know what you're buying at any specific place at any given time. Yeah, it'd be a real technological tyranny! That's what the 666 reflects, technology used as means of deceiving people. Just like virtual reality and online videogames fools those that love them, those chips will make people think that "they are convenient for they can't leave them behind at home" and "their dogs won't chew and eat them"; perhaps they will even think that they bring them "peace and safety" as if police would get some sort of distress call. Really, people can come up with as many poor excuses as there are ice cream flavors. The microchips and the cellphones and the police states and all those false teaches and prophets are the giants we should care about nowadays.

Now I wonder... what if the abomination of desolation is an image of a six-toe-giant? I know, we aren't provided any specific details concerning its appearance, but that would be a good reason to call it abomination.
:laughing:


Be careful not to laugh Too much, Too hard. It Might come back and bite ya. :smile:
 
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OK, if you think so, then come over here and show me a six toe giant any time soon! :smile: Anyway, I think that you'll only find giants as those other posters mentioned before in strange books, pagan films and videogames. By the way, keep in mind that the atmosphere wasn't in such a bad shape back then as it is nowadays so people could have grown larger and stronger than our modern giants that are lacking enough oxygen to get any true benefit from their large size.
 
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There definitely were and are giants in the land. And yes, giants means giants...There is no real confusion as to what Nephilim are if you go to the original language if a person does a little research. People generally like fast knowledge just as they prefer fast food.
The amount of compromise in the church is amazing. The church compromises on almost everything, making us Christians almost identical to the world in appearance, motive, action, and standards.
So, most of the Christian population does not believe in giants. Does that affect our salvation? It could. If you don't believe in giants, what about UFO's and aliens? Do you believe in them? What will you do when a giant UFO sits in the sky over your city and the aliens announce that they seeded humans on the Earth and now at this critical point in our history they have returned to usher us into the next level of our evolution. And they show all sorts of signs and wonders such as you cannot explain. Will you be fooled? Aliens ARE demons. The little greys are demons wearing bodies that have been made for them.
You can call me crazy if you like. I won't be offended. If you ARE fooled however your salvation will be gone, because you will have taken the gifts they give you, and you will not be eligible for salvation anymore. I could say a lot more but I'll let you finish laughing first.
Bendito, this post proves you think long on a subject. I agree with you. Fallen angels are behind UFO's, grey aliens and what not else. They need to find things to do. Keep themselves busy. They are not in prison. They have high intelligence. Part of a whole functioning society out of God's presence.

But then, you make statements like ''Canaanites were destroyed because they were giants''. Are you saying that a giant could not repent? They never had free will? Doomed from birth?

The fallen angels had free will. They exercised it and got kicked out of heaven. Humans exercise it when we refuse to repent and accept Jesus. Giants?

I have done an in depth study on the Amalekites. They were very wicked. God destroyed them because they were wicked. Whether they were giants or not is a separate issue.
 
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@exsurfbum -- Every Person Does have a soul. Yes. However -- we Also need to realize that in order to be able to accept Christ as personal Savior -- 'we' need to be able to communicate with each other --in some verbal form - - blind or deaf people would be more complicated. But communication Is possible. A person has to be able to understand sin and their personal sinfulness. and be able to communicate that. Angels are in a different category than we are. And the animal world is completely separate in Other ways.

God created Adam and then Eve with ability to have children together right away. They were created in 'our likeness' -- body, soul, spirit. So says Genesis when God created them. "our" likeness meaning the trinity.

And, yes, God Has created Everything -- Nothing evolved from 'nothing and had the ability to Become' on it's own. that's evolutionary thinking. No need For a 'god'.

God gave 'man' dominion over the animal world. We can 'kill and eat' but Only animals. Not other people.

Angels are spirit being that Can and Have taken on the appearance Of people - but they are Not People. Never have been and never will be.

And, there Is controversy about the origin of those Nephilin. They Were Huge people. Men of reknown.

Genesis 6:1-2 --- sons of God and daughters of men. the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and took wives as they chose. Had children with them apparently.
the thought occurred to me. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived and produced Jesus Christ. Mary did Not have to have a human man to give birth to a human baby.. So a person Could equate the fallen angels mating -- entities without souls mating with humans With a soul and producing off-spring that were human with souls. And they were Huge people in comparison with the small statures of the men back in that day.

And apparently the fallen angels / wicked Anyway -- produced children who were also very wicked so that it got progressively worse. thus -- a big reason for God to decide to start over with only the righteous Noah and his family existing at that time.
I feel you are missing the fact that God gives free will to all. He is impartial Acts 10:34. Especially to creation that is capable of knowing good and evil Gen 3:22. Angels and humans.

Angels who are fallen would never want to ''accept Jesus''. The Holy Spirit would never convict of sin and give them a revelation of Jesus and the cross. It would be a waste of time. As Jesus says of the devil ''He has been sinning from the beginning'' 1 John 3:8. IE He has never wanted to repent. I don't imagine demons getting on their knees and saying ''sorry for all I have done, I accept my punishment for my sins oh just and rightoeus God. I look forward to the day that you will forgive me''.
 
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@SleepyEdwin -- I don't know anyone well enough to notice if they have 6 toes or not. No one I know has 6 fingers.

Gigantism is a growth hormone problem. And there Are a lot of really tall people -- Really tall basketball players for example. The really tall people often do have problems with higher blood pressure -- their heart has to pump Harder to get their blood circulated to their extremities where its' needed.

Lacking enough oxygen -- oh come on now. They weren't That tall.

@KingJ -- so - you think that fallen angels are responsible for all those phenomena -- that fallen angels need to find something to do because they're not in prison. Well -- you Do realize fallen angels are the demons in this world. They are kept plenty busy with spiritual warfare in this age. Doing whatever they can to deceive mankind away from God / Godliness. And, actually it IS possible that they Are connected with UFOs and the alien beings that are sighted.

The world of angels was created separate from this world for mankind. They are the spirit world. They Can take on the form of human beings, but they are Not human beings.
You're talking about free will given to all. All human beings, yes. Angels don't Need 'free will' cause they don't have salvation offered to them.

Again, angels are Not human beings. They are of the 'spirit ' world. Absolutely No reason For them To be saved.

The angels that rebelled against God apparently joined in with Lucifer's desire to be equal To God. They were 'rebells' that had no real 'cause' and ended up being thrown out of heaven and landed here on earth.

The angelic world existed with God when they were created by Him. They had a variety of jobs -- places of 'service'. A very different realm than was created for mankind.
 
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In the very beginning all the children/sons of God lived with God upon this earth and all of children/sons of God were in a finer body, call it a spiritual body if you like. God had not made man/sons of God flesh at this time. There was no reason for God to put man/sons of God in a flesh body. Everything was going as planned by God and His children were happy and sang with joy.

Satan was a child of God and he walked to and fro in the earth among all the children/sons of God. This was before Satan developed proudness within himself and was one of God’s favored sons. In the beginning Satan was very good and God had elevated him in rank and responsibility. God’s plan of salvation had not even been drawn up or even thought about for there was no need for such a plan. At this time ALL the sons of God we’re happy and sang with joy. Even Satan sang with joy. God had created all his children/sons of God in a body that would live/last for a eternity. That was Gods plan from the very beginning. To create children/sons of God for His pleasure/His company,for the eternity.

There would not have been a age where the children/sons of God would have been put in a flesh body and a plan of salvation implemented if Satan had not developed proudness within himself and tried to take God’s place. Can you see this? If Satan had not rebelled and tried to take God’s place we (ALL) would still be in those finer bodies today, living in the eternity with God at this very moment. Would not have been flesh beings, would not been a book of Genesis, would not have been a plan of salvation implemented. There would not been a need for all that.

We would all be living in the eternity with God at this moment and this flesh realm we are going through at this time would have never taken place. The book of Genesis would not ever been written.
 
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Beresheet

Well -- God DID write the book of Genesis through Moses --because God's version is the correct one.

God's Word tells us that satan started out as Lucifer in heaven with all the other angelic beings that God Created. Satan was Never a son of God. Lucifer was Never a son of God. Jesus Christ IS the only Son of God. The second part of the trinity.

Maybe you're getting some of your information from the Gnostic Gospels?! Gnostic means False.

Why not get back to God's Word. Flush all that other stuff out of your system. :smile:
 
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Bendito, this post proves you think long on a subject. I agree with you. Fallen angels are behind UFO's, grey aliens and what not else. They need to find things to do. Keep themselves busy. They are not in prison. They have high intelligence. Part of a whole functioning society out of God's presence.

But then, you make statements like ''Canaanites were destroyed because they were giants''. Are you saying that a giant could not repent? They never had free will? Doomed from birth?

The fallen angels had free will. They exercised it and got kicked out of heaven. Humans exercise it when we refuse to repent and accept Jesus. Giants?

I have done an in depth study on the Amalekites. They were very wicked. God destroyed them because they were wicked. Whether they were giants or not is a separate issue.
It does not matter if they were giants or just tall humans. What should matter here is that the Word NEVER tells us that any of those so called giants was saved nor repented from their wrongdoings.

I feel you are missing the fact that God gives free will to all. He is impartial Acts 10:34. Especially to creation that is capable of knowing good and evil Gen 3:22. Angels and humans.

Angels who are fallen would never want to ''accept Jesus''. The Holy Spirit would never convict of sin and give them a revelation of Jesus and the cross. It would be a waste of time. As Jesus says of the devil ''He has been sinning from the beginning'' 1 John 3:8. IE He has never wanted to repent. I don't imagine demons getting on their knees and saying ''sorry for all I have done, I accept my punishment for my sins oh just and rightoeus God. I look forward to the day that you will forgive me''.
Actually the fallen angels will blame Satan for thinking he could become a god and make his throne stand among the stars.

Lacking enough oxygen -- oh come on now. They weren't That tall.
Believe me, the taller you are, the higher the oxygen requirements will be. There is no way to avoid this, blood needs oxygen to deliver it to every single cell in your body. If there is no good supply of oxygen, your blood pressure gets increased; the same is true for the need to pump more often if your body is too large for it would take more time to deliver oxygen, compromising the individual's survival.

And, actually it IS possible that they Are connected with UFOs and the alien beings that are sighted.
They are connected, unless somebody can prove that USA or any other world power is still fabricating strange UFO like airplanes or jets.

You're talking about free will given to all. All human beings, yes. Angels don't Need 'free will' cause they don't have salvation offered to them.
Are they capable of discerning what is good and what is evil? They do, thus they do have free will.

In the very beginning all the children/sons of God lived with God upon this earth and all of children/sons of God were in a finer body, call it a spiritual body if you like. God had not made man/sons of God flesh at this time. There was no reason for God to put man/sons of God in a flesh body. Everything was going as planned by God and His children were happy and sang with joy.
Says who? O_o? God already told us He had a plan for those He has saved because He picked them before the foundation of the world. So He always had the intention to make mankind at His own image and resemblance. We were all made to resemble Christ!

Satan was a child of God and he walked to and fro in the earth among all the children/sons of God. This was before Satan developed proudness within himself and was one of God’s favored sons. In the beginning Satan was very good and God had elevated him in rank and responsibility. God’s plan of salvation had not even been drawn up or even thought about for there was no need for such a plan. At this time ALL the sons of God we’re happy and sang with joy. Even Satan sang with joy. God had created all his children/sons of God in a body that would live/last for a eternity. That was Gods plan from the very beginning. To create children/sons of God for His pleasure/His company,for the eternity.
You are fully aware this "teaching" is completely heretic and goes against the Holy Word, right? When Lucifer was created, he already held that high position for everything had been made for him to work as the angel that would be the closest to God Himself.
 
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Well -- it doesn't matter How tall a person is -- as long as they are human beings they have a soul and able to accept Christ. The question has been --if those very tall men were fallen angels. If they Were -- then as angels - there is no need Of them accepting Jesus Christ or Not. And, actually, there Is a passage where Jesus is talking with the Father about Not having to experience the agony He knew was coming very soon. But He conceded to the will of the Father. And somewhere we're told that He could have called all the angels to rescue Him if He'd wanted to. But He didn't. Because His 'job' was to provide salvation for all of us.

And on what basis do You know that the fallen angels will blame satan for Anything. It was Lucifer in heaven who rebelled and all those angels Followed him. Those angels were not tricked into following Lucifer and getting thrown out of heaven. They rebelled -- plain and simple. Don't 'we' Also rebel against God? But God Also shows His mercy towards us. Because He created us differently from the angelic world.

And, yes, Part of being very tall is that the blood has farther to travel to get to the person's extremities where the blood is needed to keep tissues supplied with blood. But it's also very possible that in the world of 'huge' men -- that every part of their systems were extra large and able to sustain life.

You're saying that because some of those angels Did rebel that they had 'free will' to choose To rebel --knowing good and evil. Being able To rebel doesn't mean they knew good from evil.
Adam and Eve were told in the garden to Not even touch / much less Eat from the tree of the knowledge of both good and evil. For Then, they Would surely die. Meaning that Before eating that fruit -- they did Not have the knowledge of evil. They were created in a state of innocents. And 'we' Could have been living in that same innocents without death. But -- God already knew they would and had in His plans the cross of calvary.

The angels never had that. God created them in a different realm for very different reasons.
 
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And on what basis do You know that the fallen angels will blame satan for Anything. It was Lucifer in heaven who rebelled and all those angels Followed him. Those angels were not tricked into following Lucifer and getting thrown out of heaven. They rebelled -- plain and simple. Don't 'we' Also rebel against God? But God Also shows His mercy towards us. Because He created us differently from the angelic world.
Don't forget the dragon's tail snatching a third of all the stars as described in Revelation. The Word also mentions that Hades will blame Satan for failing so it gotta mean not Hades itself but the fallen angels trapped there will do that.

You're saying that because some of those angels Did rebel that they had 'free will' to choose To rebel --knowing good and evil. Being able To rebel doesn't mean they knew good from evil.
Then why do humans rebel? Because they can discern between good and evil but they just prefer evil. If you can make a choice, you have got free will. Those fallen angels weren't bad from the beginning, they chose to be rebellious, bad, evil and even come up with evil plans to deceive humanity.

Adam and Eve were told in the garden to Not even touch / much less Eat from the tree of the knowledge of both good and evil. For Then, they Would surely die. Meaning that Before eating that fruit -- they did Not have the knowledge of evil. They were created in a state of innocents. And 'we' Could have been living in that same innocents without death. But -- God already knew they would and had in His plans the cross of calvary.
It was not just innocence, it was the very first test of God. If they had chosen to eat the fruit of everlasting life, guess what? No human being would ever die but that would also confirm them as Sons of God. They did have free will, for Eve could just have ignored the snake.

Don't underestimate God's power, He can make any kind of being with free will if that pleases Him. What hindered Him from not creating angels with free will? Nothing. So why wouldn't He have created them with free will from the very beginning?
 
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