Christians Arguing for the sake of debate?

[B-A-C]

I have noticed on occasion, that there are people here on TJ that just seem to want to argue. We all claim to be 'experts' and yet even those of us with some formal Bible college and training aren't experts in everything. We are called to defend the gospel yes. But sometimes our 'debates' go beyond just defending the faith and cross-over into fruitless discussions about things that don't really matter concerning the faith.

Once saved - always saved?
Speaking in tongues and the gifts of the Spirit?
Initial evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit?
Pre-trib, mid-trib or post tribulation?
Pre-destination and the elect?

We can argue about these things all day, and at the end of the day, none of us have changed our minds, all we did was make an enemy and cause others who have read our messages or watched us chat in the chat rooms to doubt whether we are really Christians or not. I myself have been guilty of this more than once.

The Bible talks about people like this.

1Ti 1:3 As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,
1Ti 1:4 nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.
1Ti 1:5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1Ti 1:6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,
1Ti 1:7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

1Ti 6:3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
1Ti 6:4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
1Ti 6:5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

2Ti 2:16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,
2Ti 2:17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
2Ti 2:18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.

2Ti 2:23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.

Tit 1:10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
Tit 1:11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

Eph 5:4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

Gal 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So I propose - instead of arguing about things that don't really matter in regards to our salvation anyway. Lets just spread the Gospel and love one another...

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.



B-A-C

 

[her2011]

Excellent Post!

Instead of squabbling amongst ourselves about the complex stuff, I am sure the time would be better spent explaining the basic principles to non-believers, whether that be atheists or other faiths etc

 

[Brighthouse]

INDEED!! a very excellent Post!! How can one be lifted up when there is a body of believers calling each other out? How can love be reveled when it is hidden by anger,or worst of all pride! A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.proverbs 15:1 If you continue to read from here,much wisdom is reveled to us all. Amen Brother Bac!! Good words to always be mindful of!

 

[David777]

My sentiments too.

To be fair B-A-C, I have no theology.
I know for a fact that the Bible is meant
to be understood in a simple fashion.

Jesus Christ is the simple revelation
of the old and new testaments.

If you check the post entirely you will find
this is true. JiggyFly and myself do not
subscibe to a complex theology. We do not
interpret according to some assumption.

We believe in the power of the Holy Spirit.
We believe in Jesus Christ.
Please read all the posts, not just one or two.

If I have made a mistake it is because I use
LOVE as the common denominator in all I
understand about Jesus Christ and the Bible.

1Ti 1:5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

God is Love.

Jesus Christ died for all, that is why it is imperative
that we witness to all. Hiding in theology is an excuse
to avoid our duty in LOVE to witness the truth to creation.

 

[HoneyBare]

Hopefully, no one will use this post as a reason to not ask questions. But, I know what you mean. I have started threads before asking about the tribulation, post vs pre trib, only to figure out where I stand on that. But, usually, it becomes a post for those with differing views to argue their point of view.

Therefore, I have chosen, instead to either pm someone I trust or study it for myself. Which seems a shame since I appreciate having a variety of opinions. Just keeping it to "this is my belief" kind of thing would be better than beginning an argument. Thanx for the thread, BAC.

 

[rizen1]

Therefore, I have chosen, instead to either pm someone I trust or study it for myself. Which seems a shame since I appreciate having a variety of opinions. Just keeping it to "this is my belief" kind of thing would be better than beginning an argument. Thanx for the thread, BAC.

Stopping yourself from asking a question because of fear of argument is not good. Because of freedom of speech ( in love ) we're going to meet people with different ideas. Most of us don't read the same bible translations.This is a non-denomination site and open to non Christians so heated topics will show it's face. Moderators will step in and members are free to report problems.

Enjoy the site in its fullness and never be afraid to ask a question.
If everyone prays before they post and keep in mind there's a person behind the computer, corrections and rebukes would feel like a pinch not a stab.

The problem with many churches today they've been brainwashed into a false system of rituals and traditions. They pass these doctrines to generations, because no one questioned it, or they denounced anyone with a different point of view. There's no time for anyone to sit comfortable believing he knows everything because the truth is stranger than friction.

"Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thess. 5:21).

Bac is right saying arguing is pointless, I strongly agree. Open constructive discussions should replace those arguments.

God bless

 

[Sam Canvas]

So I propose - instead of arguing about things that don't really matter in regards to our salvation anyway. Lets just spread the Gospel and love one another...

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Hello BAC.

Very good post. You're right all the way.

I read all the Scriptures you took time to collate. They reminded me how important spiritual balance and discipline are among Christians who come together for any reason.

We gather together to...

love, share sound doctrine,

glorify the Lord and build one another up

maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace – not to clash mind-to-mind!

Unfortunately anyone can join this forum. Any genuine Christian can subtly pedal his religious agenda and ride through the threads on his beloved hobby horse! So spiritual maturity is critical. (I just spent almost 2 weeks thinking about leaving TJ.)

God’s consuming work in us can be really painful and humbling – and even embarrassing. Recognising our own fleshly ways, our viewpoints and philosophies, needs a real deep cutting of God’s Spirit. We often need to discard our preferences.

“For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

“And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account” (Hebrews 4:12, 13, NKJV).
​

We must allow Him to deal with our minds and the works of our flesh. The New Testament has a lot to say about it. Dying to self is only possible after God shines in His light and shows us our own corruption, even though it may seem perfectly acceptable to us!

"For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace" (Romans 8:6, NKJV).
​

If we don’t respond and grow we will stir a wrong human ‘spirit’ into the mix, as your Scriptures prove.

Sadly though, BAC, although we know these things to be true and essential, in a large group environment we are usually flogging a dead horse.

We will get to a better place through God’s deep work in us, and that in itself removes us from the mess. And it better equips us to hear His voice and make a real difference. But we can never change it once and for all.

Even explaining a subject like this provokes well-intentioned opposition. To many it appears to be spiritually elitist, and even a suspicious dose of spiritualist mumbo-jumbo.

But let those who think they stand take need in case they fall. We need renewed every day, regardless of how spiritually mature we are... or think we are.

Sam

 

[will]

I have noticed on occasion, that there are people here on TJ that just seem to want to argue. We all claim to be 'experts' and yet even those of us with some formal Bible college and training aren't experts in everything. We are called to defend the gospel yes. But sometimes our 'debates' go beyond just defending the faith and cross-over into fruitless discussions about things that don't really matter concerning the faith.

Once saved - always saved?
Speaking in tongues and the gifts of the Spirit?
Initial evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit?
Pre-trib, mid-trib or post tribulation?
Pre-destination and the elect?

I agree with the post in principle. It is so very easy for us to get wrapped up with the arguments that we lose sight of the love (agape) that we have to have towards any of our brothers and sisters in the Lord, regardless our disagreement.

But may I suggest that each of the topics presented above has its place in a discussion among us. One key factor to keep in mind being the "maturity" of the persons involved in the discussion.

For instance, discussing predestination with a brand new believer would be both futile and detrimental to the new believer's faith.

But the topic of assurance of salvation (Once saved, always saved) is a perfect topic to discuss with a new believer because it gave him or her the assurance that Our Lord has done the work for us, and nothing can separate us from His love and mercy.

The attitude that "I'm an expert because I have studied the Scriptures" is so contrary to what we ought to obtain through studying the Scriptures. It is quite ironic

 

[AudreyNicole]

“In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, charity.”

I do agree somewhat with what you are saying, however I think there tends to be gross perversion of what the word "argue" means, esp. using a Biblical worldview. There is a vast difference between arguing and fighting. As Christians we ought to refrain from fighting, but arguing I believe has its place, and a very significant one at that. To argue means to put forth reasons for or against a certain belief. If we can't support our views and beliefs by putting forth proper reasons, then what justice do we have in believing anything at all?

Debating, done correctly, can be extremely beneficial and entirely Godly. I have learned a great deal from arguing and in fact, I understand and comprehend information better if I learn it in the form of an argument or debate. The only way to get answers is to pose questions. And we mustn't be irresolute or languid in our beliefs. The Bible tells us to be passionate about what we believe regardless of what others think. If you eat meat, then eat meat; if not, then don't eat meat. Do whatever you do passionately and with reason. What we shouldn't do though is quarrel or fight over such issues because that only divides the church.

There is a fine art to debating and arguing, and with the help of the spirit it is entirely possible to do so graciously and politely. Have you ever seen "professional" debates? The candidates are usually friendly before and after and quite often share laughs and poke fun at one another in friendly and loving ways. The issue here oughtn't be about arguing, it should instead be about arguing correctly. And reading through the Gospels I think Jesus presents a fine demonstration on how to argue and pose questions effectively.


P.S. I must also add that prayer can often be posed in the form of an argument. When we come to God with requests and questions we are commanded to come boldly and without hesitation. I quite often argue with God for what I want. Think of Jacob wrestling with God. Jacob demanded that God bless him. And in many other prayers we see people putting forth reasons supporting their claims. Is this not arguing? The Lord does not want us irresolute or languid in our prayers either. We are to ask boldly, and present our requests with passion, supporting them with reason, and backing them up with scripture. This, my friend, is arguing.