Cherry picking - the weight of scripture.

[B-A-C]

Every now and then, I am accused of "cherry picking" a scripture to prove a point. If I am honest, this has probably happened.
But what does this mean... "cherry picking"? We can all find a verse or a portion of a verse that says something that says almost anything.

One of mine is the phrase "we are saved by grace alone". However the words "grace and alone" aren't together in any verse in the Bible.
Yet you often hear this phrase as if it is.

I believe in something called the weight of scripture. If you find one verse that says one thing, and then you find 20 other verses that say
the opposite thing, which one are you going to believe? The one verse, or the 20 other verses? All too often these days, we pick the "one verse"
over the dozen other verses. Almost always this causes problems in theology. However if we choose the majority of scripture, we almost
always realize we interpreted the "one verse" incorrectly.

Now I suppose if someone gives you one or two verses to prove a point, it's possible they might be "cherry picking".
But if they give you 8, 10, 12 or more verses to prove a point, at some point it isn't cherry picking anymore. It's a Biblical theme.

We are told we are no longer "under the law" in 2 verses in the New Testament, and yet there are over a dozen that say we need to keep the commandments.
So do we pick "the two" verses, or do we go with the other 12? There's a good chance if you go with the majority, you will interpret the other two differently.

 

[A. Christian]

Every now and then, I am accused of "cherry picking" a scripture to prove a point. If I am honest, this has probably happened.
But what does this mean... "cherry picking"? We can all find a verse or a portion of a verse that says something that says almost anything.

One of mine is the phrase "we are saved by grace alone". However the words "grace and alone" aren't together in any verse in the Bible.
Yet you often hear this phrase as if it is.

I believe in something called the weight of scripture. If you find one verse that says one thing, and then you find 20 other verses that say
the opposite thing, which one are you going to believe? The one verse, or the 20 other verses? All too often these days, we pick the "one verse"
over the dozen other verses. Almost always this causes problems in theology. However if we choose the majority of scripture, we almost
always realize we interpreted the "one verse" incorrectly.

Now I suppose if someone gives you one or two verses to prove a point, it's possible they might be "cherry picking".
But if they give you 8, 10, 12 or more verses to prove a point, at some point it isn't cherry picking anymore. It's a Biblical theme.

We are told we are no longer "under the law" in 2 verses in the New Testament, and yet there are over a dozen that say we need to keep the commandments.
So do we pick "the two" verses, or do we go with the other 12? There's a good chance if you go with the majority, you will interpret the other two differently.

I can think of more than two verses that state in different words that we are no longer "under the law"

 

[A. Christian]

Every now and then, I am accused of "cherry picking" a scripture to prove a point. If I am honest, this has probably happened.
But what does this mean... "cherry picking"? We can all find a verse or a portion of a verse that says something that says almost anything.

One of mine is the phrase "we are saved by grace alone". However the words "grace and alone" aren't together in any verse in the Bible.
Yet you often hear this phrase as if it is.

I believe in something called the weight of scripture. If you find one verse that says one thing, and then you find 20 other verses that say
the opposite thing, which one are you going to believe? The one verse, or the 20 other verses? All too often these days, we pick the "one verse"
over the dozen other verses. Almost always this causes problems in theology. However if we choose the majority of scripture, we almost
always realize we interpreted the "one verse" incorrectly.

Now I suppose if someone gives you one or two verses to prove a point, it's possible they might be "cherry picking".
But if they give you 8, 10, 12 or more verses to prove a point, at some point it isn't cherry picking anymore. It's a Biblical theme.

We are told we are no longer "under the law" in 2 verses in the New Testament, and yet there are over a dozen that say we need to keep the commandments.
So do we pick "the two" verses, or do we go with the other 12? There's a good chance if you go with the majority, you will interpret the other two differently.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Galatians 4:21-31Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Galatians 5:2-4 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Basically the entire book of Galatians is a letter warning against the false doctrine that promoted legalism there.


1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any
.

1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

They count as two.


Romans 3:20-21Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Romans 3 27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


Some objections are "Jesus said the law will not pass away until all is fulfilled." That is in Mathew 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. But Jesus did fulfill the law. Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. He fulfilled the law because we couldn't and we now share his righteousness that is his by the law that he fulfilled. Look back at Galatians 2:19. The law isnt dead but we are dead to the law.


Another objection is that the law that we are no longer under was only the ceremonial law and we are still under the 10 commandments. NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT EVER SAY THAT. Well Romans 7:1-7 also shows us that we are free from the law but it does so using two examples they relate to adultery and coveting two laws that were part of the 10 commandments. Also 2 Corinthians 3:6-11 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Key point is that the ministration of death that is superceded by the ministration of righteousness were engraved on stone. That was no the ceremonial part of the law it was either the 10 commandments or the entire law.


Well I'm tired now but that's probably 12 or at least 8. I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone might have.

 

[rag4acrown1]

Even Christ said I give you no new commandments but save these two; Love God first always, and love our neighbor as ourself.
If we will do these two commandments there is no danger of us breaking any of the other ones.
And my favorite...we are no longer bound by the law of sin and death...for Christ our Lord is risen.
He is the end of the old and the beginning of the new (testament). By the blood of the lamb we have been washed, and are white as snow. Amen

One may call it "cherry picking"...it is actually called rightly dividing the Word of truth. It bares witness, or it dont.
All praise, glory and honor be unto God. Amen

 

[Hekuran]

The weight of scripture principle can be useful, but can also encourage a unhealthy way of reading the Bible.

Primarily the bible is a story - of how God by means of Jesus Chtist is rescuing the creation that rejected him.

That consistent overarching story is the thread that is woven through the works of many different writers in different times, cultures, each with their eists own audiences and issues to address. We have history, legal instruction, drama, visions, songs, prophetic poetry, proverbs, letters and sermons.

It's not really a reference book, so dipping in to individual verses has limited value.

It's better to try to locate each part of the bible in the whole story. Who is writing, who are they writing for? what is their purpose - what situation are they addressing? How does each verse advance their argument?

Remember, for example, that God himself writes off the advice and instruction that makes up the heart of the book of job as nonsense.

After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.

Weight of scripture helps us not to wobble off into strange territory, and it's good for simple questions (Should we be generous to people in poverty?).

But it's not so much help in more complex situations - (what is the best way to respond to a refugee crisis?)

 

[B-A-C]

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


Galatians 4:21-31Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Galatians 5:2-4 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Basically the entire book of Galatians is a letter warning against the false doctrine that promoted legalism there.


1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any
.

1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

They count as two.


Romans 3:20-21Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Romans 3 27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

These are great! Thanks for looking these up. I must concede there are more than two. Although some of these I would picked to prove there "was" a law.
In any case, I count 9 passages you have listed above, some of these do have more than one verse. The question becomes, how do we reconcile them with the passages below
(some of these have more than one verse also).

Matt 5:19; "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matt 22:40; "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
Mark 10:19; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Luke 1:6; They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.
Luke 18:20; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 14:21; "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Thes 4:2; For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
Tit 1:14; not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1 Jn 3:22; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 Jn 5:2; By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
1 Jn 5:3; For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

2 Jn 1:6; And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
Rev 12:17; So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 14:12; Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Eph 6:2; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),

Matt 15:3; And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Mark 7:8; "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."
Mark 7:9; He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.

Matt 22:37; And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Matt 22:38; "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Matt 22:39; "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

Mark 12:29; Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
Mark 12:30; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
Mark 12:31; "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

John 13:34; "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 15:12; "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

Rom 7:12; So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

1 Tim 6:14; that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2 Pet 3:2; that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.
1 Jn 2:7; Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
1 Jn 2:8; On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
1 Jn 3:23; This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
1 Jn 4:21; And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

Matt 28:20; teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Matt 5:21; "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matt 5:33; "Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.'
Matt 5:34; "But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,

Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone might have.

Thanks for sharpening my iron brother. ( Prov 27:17; )

 

[Brother-Paul]

Context of verses quoted is key, although adding many verses form various parts of scripture can be convincing it can also mix and mislead us from the truth, it can so often be used to make a point, the writers point.

I recently had the following put to me by a dear brother...

The discussion was put over that, God is Love, saved souls and lost souls alike, the context of the discussion was God loves ALL, saved and lost souls, but on the basis that those souls which are not saved, will not receive God's Wrath, go to Hell, because God is Love.

The quoting of single verses was used to back up our dear brothers argument as follows...

(I am only adding the message below to show the point of context, I am not using my dear brothers words in any other way) He said...

I don't agree.

God is love, full-stop. Anything you read outside of 1 John 4:8 needs to be read in the light of 1 John 4:8.

following a reply to the post I was then provided with the following reply...

I ''only'' want people to quote three scriptures (1 John 1:5, Psalm 145:17 and 1 John 4:8) with every scripture they find of God's wrath. Let alone all the others of His goodness.

Although we agree God is Love, which He demonstrated in that Jesus died for our sins, I decided to look 1 John 4:8 to get the context of the section of scripture right...

How easy it is to mis-read scripture here!

Let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

If we love one another we are born of God for God is Love. Is that what this passage really says? I FEEL NOT!

It was clear that in this passage John was writing to the 'brethren', 'the beloved', 'the saved', not the world, so I read this as follows...

v7, He amongst the brethren, the beloved, must love God, let us love one another, for love is of God, therefore...
v8, He amongst the brethren, who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
We cannot belong to God unless we love God... (and accept Jesus etc)
v9, His love was manifest towards US, the brethren, through Jesus that we might (providing we are saved, providing we are God's, live through Him)
v11 Beloved, brethren, believers, if God so loved US, we also ought to love one another.
13 BY THIS we know we abide in Him, and He in us.

And so this message continues, reading this scripture section in the right context, is 'to the brethren, to the beloved' not to the lost souls on the world.

1 John 4:7-21 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves (as God loves, who is a beloved brethren) is born of God and knows God.
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 IN THIS the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might (as true brethren) live through Him.
10 IN THIS is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved US (the brethren) and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we (the brethren) love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given US of His Spirit.
14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. [Brethren] God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. [Brethren]
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.
20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

To quote single verses is open to reading out of context.
If we take 1 John 4:8 to mean loving someone, in a worldly way is what scripture says here, we are surely missing the point.

Murderers, thieves, adulterers, homosexuals, etc all love someone that doesn't mean God's love frees them from judgement, if they die and are not saved.

It is important to read scripture in the context it was written, the world's word 'love', particularly in the west, covers a multitude of meaning, 'love' of wife or husband, 'love' of children, 'love' of job, 'love' of car, 'love' of holidays, 'love of money' etc. If worldly love is considered for God's love the point is missed, they are light and dark distance apart.

John is here telling the brethren, we are to love one another, but as God loves us.
God's love is agape love, Divine love, God's love is hesed love, steadfast love.
We are to abide in Him, abide in His Divine Love. We are to know the love God has for US, His children, the beloved brethren, we are to know the type of love He has for us and not mix this up with worldly love. So that when the day comes, we may have boldness in the Day of Judgement, for we will be Judged according to The Word.

8 He who does not love (as God loves, with God's love) does not know God, (they are not Saved) for God is love.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. [Brethren] God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
17 Love has been perfected among US in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. [Brethren]

Context has to be key.

1 John 4:7-21 not 1 John 4:8

Sometimes we have to read full sections, some times full chapters, The Truth is in The Word.

 

[A. Christian]

These are great! Thanks for looking these up. I must concede there are more than two. Although some of these I would picked to prove there "was" a law.
In any case, I count 9 passages you have listed above, some of these do have more than one verse. The question becomes, how do we reconcile them with the passages below
(some of these have more than one verse also).

Matt 5:19; "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matt 22:40; "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
Mark 10:19; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Luke 1:6; They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.
Luke 18:20; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 14:21; "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Thes 4:2; For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
Tit 1:14; not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1 Jn 3:22; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 Jn 5:2; By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
1 Jn 5:3; For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

2 Jn 1:6; And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
Rev 12:17; So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 14:12; Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Eph 6:2; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),

Matt 15:3; And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Mark 7:8; "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."
Mark 7:9; He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.

Matt 22:37; And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Matt 22:38; "This is the great and foremost commandment.
Matt 22:39; "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

Mark 12:29; Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
Mark 12:30; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
Mark 12:31; "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

John 13:34; "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
John 15:12; "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

Rom 7:12; So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

1 Tim 6:14; that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2 Pet 3:2; that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.
1 Jn 2:7; Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
1 Jn 2:8; On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
1 Jn 3:23; This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
1 Jn 4:21; And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

Matt 28:20; teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Matt 5:21; "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matt 5:33; "Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.'
Matt 5:34; "But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,

Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.



Thanks for sharpening my iron brother. ( Prov 27:17; )

Well first I would like to point out that the Law is not dead, we are thanks to the baptism into Christ and being baptised into his death and life. But the Law still exists for anyone who wants to be under it, though it cannot justify you only condemn you. But the Law is a reflection of God's perfect standard. So as long as God exist so will the Law for anymore not under grace. Now Grace is a much bsetter reflection of God. But yea there are commandments and they are all summed up in love. But we are dead to any obligation to keep them. Bare with me.

The verse if you love me you will keep my commandments. Most confuse will keep with have to keep. But look at it this way if I love pizza then I will eat pizza. I don't have to prove that I love pizza. But since I do, I'm going to eat pizza.

In short, we are new creatures who love God and want to be like him. The bible says we are being transformed into the image of Christ by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is cultivating fruits of love joy peace,etc. Because of this we will by nature desire to do good and love. We will desire to keep the Law but and this is important we will do it out of desire and not obligation. The obligation was fulfilled by Jesus. The obligation brings death and condemnation.

 

[B-A-C]

But we are dead to any obligation to keep them. Bare with me.

The verse if you love me you will keep my commandments. Most confuse will keep with have to keep. But look at it this way if I love pizza then I will eat pizza. I don't have to prove that I love pizza. But since I do, I'm going to eat pizza.

Even if I only do it because I love Pizza, I'm still doing it. John MacArthur said something similar in his book "Slave". But he said I don't have to love Jesus, I just have to obey Him.
Not sure I agree with that, but even so...

There are other scriptures that make it sound like keeping the commandments... are not optional. As Billy Graham once said.. they aren't called "the 10 suggestions".

John 8:55; and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Hmmm... do we still abide in His love if we don't?

1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

The thing is... the commandments are not the law. They were a part of the law. But the law also consisted of the circumcision (the entire book of Galatians is really about circumcision)
, animal sacrifices, confession to priests, stoning people, they other 600 plus "rules" in the old testament in addition to the 10 or 12 commandments ( 9 of these are repeated in the new testament) but I'm not opposed to boiling them down to two. Even if it's just two... they're still there.

If we step away from the "commandments" for a moment, and mention a couple other "rules" in the new testament.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:18; But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:5; For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

 

[A. Christian]

Even if I only do it because I love Pizza, I'm still doing it. John MacArthur said something similar in his book "Slave". But he said I don't have to love Jesus, I just have to obey Him.
Not sure I agree with that, but even so...

There are other scriptures that make it sound like keeping the commandments... are not optional. As Billy Graham once said.. they aren't called "the 10 suggestions".

John 8:55; and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Hmmm... do we still abide in His love if we don't?

1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

The thing is... the commandments are not the law. They were a part of the law. But the law also consisted of the circumcision (the entire book of Galatians is really about circumcision)
, animal sacrifices, confession to priests, stoning people, they other 600 plus "rules" in the old testament in addition to the 10 or 12 commandments ( 9 of these are repeated in the new testament) but I'm not opposed to boiling them down to two. Even if it's just two... they're still there.

If we step away from the "commandments" for a moment, and mention a couple other "rules" in the new testament.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:18; But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:5; For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

All commandments are Law and all Law is commandments. The sacrifice of animals were no less mandatory than not murdering. Its all the same that's why if you offend in one law you offend in all of it.

Again I say look at these verses about commandments as that keeping the commandments is a product of our relationship with God not the requirement of it. The relationship is completely free. There is no obligation to keep any commandments. But I do, as does the vast majority of christians who have a relationship with God. It is just a part of our new nature but there is no obligations.

Some might say that since we are dead to the Law that we can do whatever we want to. Paul says otherwise when he says how can we be dead to sin and still live in it. What I am saying is that anyone who thinks that we have a license to sin because we are under grace, does not understand the power of grace or the new nature that we are given.

And yes I am still eating pizza but I eat it because I want to not because I have to. And I don't agree with macarthurs statement at all.

 

[KingJ]

Every now and then, I am accused of "cherry picking" a scripture to prove a point. If I am honest, this has probably happened.
But what does this mean... "cherry picking"? We can all find a verse or a portion of a verse that says something that says almost anything.

One of mine is the phrase "we are saved by grace alone". However the words "grace and alone" aren't together in any verse in the Bible.
Yet you often hear this phrase as if it is.

I believe in something called the weight of scripture. If you find one verse that says one thing, and then you find 20 other verses that say
the opposite thing, which one are you going to believe? The one verse, or the 20 other verses? All too often these days, we pick the "one verse"
over the dozen other verses. Almost always this causes problems in theology. However if we choose the majority of scripture, we almost
always realize we interpreted the "one verse" incorrectly.

Now I suppose if someone gives you one or two verses to prove a point, it's possible they might be "cherry picking".
But if they give you 8, 10, 12 or more verses to prove a point, at some point it isn't cherry picking anymore. It's a Biblical theme.

We are told we are no longer "under the law" in 2 verses in the New Testament, and yet there are over a dozen that say we need to keep the commandments.
So do we pick "the two" verses, or do we go with the other 12? There's a good chance if you go with the majority, you will interpret the other two differently.

A weight of scripture can also be cherry picked and abused to push false teaching / agenda's.

Weight of scripture does not always counter a cherry picked line.

I learn from Jesus in Matt 4. Jesus did not quote a weight of scripture. He simply picked a verse that added more light to the verse the devil quoted.

This ''further light'' could be in the passage / chapter or anywhere in the bible.

 

[KingJ]

False teaching / cherry picking originates from people NOT grasping God.

Which for a Christian is odd. One would assume Christians '''know''' God.

Example: We all know Mother Theresa. What she did, what she taught. Now if someone said ''Mother Theresa said she would poison a kid'''. We know it is either A. A lie or B. Meant without any intention.

To represent Mother Theresa to strangers as '''someone who wanted to poison a child'' is simply miss-representation.

I truly feel for all those false teachers that God get's hold of one day. Those who intentionally miss-represented Him. Or those who initially un-intentionally miss represented Him, were then corrected and remained hard headed and continued miss-representing Him.

God loves mankind. God died for mankind. God wants as many in heaven as possible. This is why He says in Matt 18:6 If anyone causes one of these little ones-those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Now, when some espouse to young Christians and the unsaved that God is ''wicked'', I pray God is merciful with you one-day.

1 John 1:5 God is light with no darkness in Him at all.

 

[Br. Bear]

One thing is for sure

we can not pick apart and use Jesus
and if more would look to Him and have fellowship in Him, they would hear the Word from Him as He would want us to hear Him!


Bless you all and remember it may be harvest time ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

1 John 1:5 God is light with no darkness in Him at all.

yes

 

[Brother-Paul]

Bless you all and remember it may be harvest time ....><>

It is brother and the workers are few.

 

[Curtis]

Cherry-picking is very good if you fully understand the scriptures you are using! Jesus cherry-picked what scriptures to use against the Devil when being tempted! Cherry-picking without understanding is a disaster.

The failure to not understand the difference between the Old Testament, and New Testament and what is required from each covenant will bring all kinds of discrepancies to those who are unlearned.

 

[Curtis]

If we love one another we are born of God for God is Love. Is that what this passage really says? I FEEL NOT!

A person is NOT saved because he loves his brother, he loves his brother because he is saved. The person is who is experiencing this in their life is proof to them they are saved.

 

[Brother-Paul]

A person is NOT saved because he loves his brother, he loves his brother because he is saved. The person is who is experiencing this in their life is proof to them they are saved.

Yes!

 

[Wnl]

I think that is important to remember is that we don't come under the PRACTICAL laws of the Old Testament Jews, which I believe there are over 600
But we must obey the SPIRITUAL Ten Commandments of God.
Buy the way I don't like pizza, ha,
With Love Wnl

 

[WesleyJordan]

Every now and then, I am accused of "cherry picking" a scripture to prove a point. If I am honest, this has probably happened.
But what does this mean... "cherry picking"? We can all find a verse or a portion of a verse that says something that says almost anything.

One of mine is the phrase "we are saved by grace alone". However the words "grace and alone" aren't together in any verse in the Bible.
Yet you often hear this phrase as if it is.

I believe in something called the weight of scripture. If you find one verse that says one thing, and then you find 20 other verses that say
the opposite thing, which one are you going to believe? The one verse, or the 20 other verses? All too often these days, we pick the "one verse"
over the dozen other verses. Almost always this causes problems in theology. However if we choose the majority of scripture, we almost
always realize we interpreted the "one verse" incorrectly.

Now I suppose if someone gives you one or two verses to prove a point, it's possible they might be "cherry picking".
But if they give you 8, 10, 12 or more verses to prove a point, at some point it isn't cherry picking anymore. It's a Biblical theme.

We are told we are no longer "under the law" in 2 verses in the New Testament, and yet there are over a dozen that say we need to keep the commandments.
So do we pick "the two" verses, or do we go with the other 12? There's a good chance if you go with the majority, you will interpret the other two differently.

One thing I have noticed many people doing is putting the words of Paul over the words of Jesus. Jesus said that his words weren’t even his own words but every single word that came out of his mouth came from the Father himself; so if you don’t believe him, then by that one action you’re calling God a liar. That’s probably what the unpardonable sin is, come to think of it.

Paul was clearly one of the greatest examples of obeying Jesus’ when he said, Take up your cross and follow Me. He had his own cross: he dealt with his own personal set of trials and persecutions and martyrdom, but he also truly repented and followed Jesus: he stopped murdering Christians and, not JUST that, he did exactly what Jesus commanded us all to do: drop everything you’re doing and start seeking his kingdom with every waking moment.

But! Paul was not Jesus. Paul could not claim that every word that came out of his mouth came from God. I know that many, perhaps even most, did, but not ALL. And in my opinion we must make sure we Christians are foremost followers of Jesus himself, and not just Paul. Otherwise we begin breaking commandments.

I personally love having a red letter bible. Matthew is my absolute favorite book of all scripture because it has the most red letters.

Also, I do have a sort of criticism against Paul’s style of writing. He is too overly flowery. The book of romans is actually very hard for me to understand, and it’s not because I am not intelligent or cannot read. It’s because Paul will drag a run-on sentence over several chapters sometimes it feels like , and many times it should be much better to get to the point. Especially when truth is on the line. Again, opinion mine.

What I love about the way Jesus spoke? It was simple. It was short and concise. Occasionally he would put passion and emotion into what he said, and that would give special significance. Jesus never spoke in run-on sentences that branch, and branch, and branch, before the completing the sentence. I just love it. It makes it so easy to understand. And the ‘difficult’ things? Praise Jesus he made that easy too! He put it into parables that ANYONE can understand.

When the word ‘difficult’ came to me I immediately thought of the verse I believe in second Peter where it goes something like ‘I know brothers that Paul’s speaks of hard things to understand.’ Indeed the letters, for me, will take some serious study when I get to them.