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Capital Punishment

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Member
God is the ultimate giver of capitol punishment. The entire old testament shows you that beyond any question.

God tried to teach the world that if you allow bad, and sin and murder and rape and stealing and all things that these things if not taken out of society will only corrupt society.

The lessons are very clear. From the old law to the new, all things have consequences. God so very much tried to teach the world and the world ignored.

So now we have what we have today. Murderers and rapists and thieves flaunt their way at society, and we as a society now carry the burden of financial support to feed, counsel and house prisoners and society lets them out to conduct more crimes and the cycle starts all over again.

Daily a child rapist is let out of prison , after society supporting this criminal for years, they let them out and within days, they have killed another child. And society still says , we need to help them, to rehabilitate them, and provide for them, and on and on.

One does not even have to believe in God to see the result. Even a good person, an Atheist can see the results of allowance of all things. Evil breeds evil, the one who commits the crime , now works through an entire system of legalities and lawyers all of which make their living off the evil. So evil grows to the point we see in our society today.

Ask yourself one simple question, if your family is ever touched by a violent crime, and this is the deal, those who have never been in this situation do justify, and do allow as they do not understand, but if you were in this and say a man kills your little girl, rapes her and the legal system throws it all out of court due to some technicality or some police officer beats the one who did this, do you wish this person to be allowed to do this to another child??

Many are against Capital Punishment, I myself support it, and wish it was enforced in a greater way. God also is for this, and Jesus says also, throw the rotten apple out of the barrel, before it can corrupt the other apples.

A lot of corrupt apples today. And a great deal of financial burden on all to support all these corrupt apples.

I sat on a jury once , a man accused of rape and sexual misconduct of a teenage girl. In his own handwriting and in his own voice on the stand he admitted this . But the lawyers tried and tried and almost won the case, based on things to distract. To take the crime and bury it with fluff and lies. They did their best to defend the criminal actions and to allow the man to go free. They worked on the emotions of the jury to the point some broke down and cried, and did not wish to punish the man, such a good man basically, just committed a crime, we should not be so harsh on him......they are pros, and it was very eye opening for me, it shows me how the legal system works and how there is no such thing as right and wrong, only a system of one lawyer against another and how one can sway the jury. There is not one bit of concern for right or wrong, that has long gone.

Kit
 
Member
God is the ultimate giver of capitol punishment. The entire old testament shows you that beyond any question.

God tried to teach the world that if you allow bad, and sin and murder and rape and stealing and all things that these things if not taken out of society will only corrupt society.

The lessons are very clear. From the old law to the new, all things have consequences. God so very much tried to teach the world and the world ignored.

So now we have what we have today. Murderers and rapists and thieves flaunt their way at society, and we as a society now carry the burden of financial support to feed, counsel and house prisoners and society lets them out to conduct more crimes and the cycle starts all over again.

Daily a child rapist is let out of prison , after society supporting this criminal for years, they let them out and within days, they have killed another child. And society still says , we need to help them, to rehabilitate them, and provide for them, and on and on.

One does not even have to believe in God to see the result. Even a good person, an Atheist can see the results of allowance of all things. Evil breeds evil, the one who commits the crime , now works through an entire system of legalities and lawyers all of which make their living off the evil. So evil grows to the point we see in our society today.

Ask yourself one simple question, if your family is ever touched by a violent crime, and this is the deal, those who have never been in this situation do justify, and do allow as they do not understand, but if you were in this and say a man kills your little girl, rapes her and the legal system throws it all out of court due to some technicality or some police officer beats the one who did this, do you wish this person to be allowed to do this to another child??

Many are against Capital Punishment, I myself support it, and wish it was enforced in a greater way. God also is for this, and Jesus says also, throw the rotten apple out of the barrel, before it can corrupt the other apples.

A lot of corrupt apples today. And a great deal of financial burden on all to support all these corrupt apples.

I sat on a jury once , a man accused of rape and sexual misconduct of a teenage girl. In his own handwriting and in his own voice on the stand he admitted this . But the lawyers tried and tried and almost won the case, based on things to distract. To take the crime and bury it with fluff and lies. They did their best to defend the criminal actions and to allow the man to go free. They worked on the emotions of the jury to the point some broke down and cried, and did not wish to punish the man, such a good man basically, just committed a crime, we should not be so harsh on him......they are pros, and it was very eye opening for me, it shows me how the legal system works and how there is no such thing as right and wrong, only a system of one lawyer against another and how one can sway the jury. There is not one bit of concern for right or wrong, that has long gone.

Kit
thank you kit
 
Member
One problem is that 'our' legal system is SOOOO corrupt. I've seen it first hand. Another is that the NT tells Christians to not kill anyone.

Matthew 5:39 (NKJV)
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.
 
Member
Yes, God does believe in capital punishment, for the wages of sin is death. The thing is though,we all have sinned, so tell me, which one of you will throw the first switch?

It is true that the OT has much 'capital punishment'. One must remember though that the Hebrew judicial system is much different from the western society of today. And it remains much the same today as it was 2,500 years ago.
They do not have defence lawyers. The judge acts as the accused's defence. It is up to those laying the charge to convince the judge of his guilt. This can be very difficult, for there are many checks and balances, and absolutely air tight witness testimonies included, for the judge himself does all he can to declare the person innocent.
The Hebrew system laid far more value on the potential for wrongly condemning an innocent person than rightly condemning the guilty. Ancient Israel lived under a theocracy remember. If the system became corrupt, God intervened. No system today can be trusted to get it right. There is too much potential for the wrong person getting condemned. This happens far too often...cases where people are tried and adjudged guilty on the flimsiest of evidence, or on false testimony, or with corrupted evidence.
I agree that there are too many cases also of felons being let loose back into society to reoffend. There are also many cases of felons who in other circumstances may have been on the wrong end of a death penalty, and have since found Christ. I know of two such in this country just in the last couple of months. One a drug importer who spent his time in jail and was then deported back to China. He found Jesus, witnessed and converted several other inmates while still here, and is now back in China doing the same there. God is great and willing to save to the uttermost all who believe. Even hardened criminals.
And even adulterers.

This is precisely the way God works in our case. It is up to Satan to lay the charges before the judge (Jesus) who simply says, "this man is a brand plucked out of the fire. I paid the price for His redemption. Not guilty".
"And judgement was given on behalf of the saints." Daniel 7:22
 
Member
When we discuss Capitol Punishment there are so many instances of unequal punishment by death from State to State. There is a Legal group, I forget their name, that have been going over the legal facts of many who have been sentenced to death. A number have been proven innocent by the DNA evidence. If there were no such group doing this legal research these prisoners would have been killed unjustified.

That being said, thereare those who deserved a death sentence, and have been paroled, because of legal trickery of the Justice System. I mention again, there is unequal punishment standards from State to State in the United States, say nothing about country to country.

Many times we have seen child molesters spend little time in prison, and are released. Once released these men repeat their evil again. This seems like a huge flaw in the way we treat different crimes. There needs to be a punishment that ends repeat offences. I firmly believe that punishment for repeat child molestation or forcible rape should be complete emasculation. This would be a condition for release from prison. This may seem harsh, but the punishment fits the crimes.

The punishment by death is Biblical. Human judgement is not infallible, and will make mistakes. To end a life is as serious a punishment we can inflict, there is NOTHING else we can do. Do we stop using the death sentence because we are fallible and a mistale is possible? Some will say yes, and others will strongly disagree.

Perhaps, one step in the debate would be to standardize the death punishment in the United States. This would require a National Vote to have Capitol Punnishment in all States. I doubt this would ever take place.

Unless there is a clear addmission of murder, we will always have some doubt if the death sentence was fair and complete Justice. Those who are involved the Justice System, have the burden to make sure the unmistakenly guilty person, has the administation of that States Death Penalty, or punishment called for by that State.

If anyone feels the Laws of the State or Country is unfair, or unequally applied, or unbiblical we do have rights and ways to address our Legal authorities to change the laws.
 
Member
One problem is that 'our' legal system is SOOOO corrupt. I've seen it first hand. Another is that the NT tells Christians to not kill anyone.

Matthew 5:39 (NKJV)
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person.
Hey:

Do not kill, really means do not murder.
Not to resist an evil person means to do all you can without violence to walk away, to not take violent action, to resolve it in another way, or to find a solution to make the situation good. But if that evil person is intent on your harm, then we do not have to allow it.

Myself and this preacher would get along well, he has mostly my views on things. One has to understand the entire message of the Bible and sort out the things of man that are misleading. That is where we are today, so misled we are a mess. Evil breeds more evil and one day it will become so bad the final judgement will come. God is very tolerant, he does not wish to act, but he knows he will one day have to. He will have to do what we will not do.

Gods Criminal Justice System, Bob Enyart I find this just about sums it up.

God gave us common sense too, and you know, just like the mass murderer in this article who was killed by another criminal, this is also Gods justice. Sometimes he does use us in a way to accomplish things, but he would not have a good man simply kill the murderer with malice and wish for revenge, but he will allow us as a people to kill him by law, and that is a entirely different attitude. It is the intent of the heart and the action. Each situation is so different and God judges them one by one, where we as humans put into place a law that is broad and general and does have failings.

Kit
 
Member
Hey:

Do not kill, really means do not murder.
Not to resist an evil person means to do all you can without violence to walk away, to not take violent action, to resolve it in another way, or to find a solution to make the situation good. But if that evil person is intent on your harm, then we do not have to allow it.

Myself and this preacher would get along well, he has mostly my views on things. One has to understand the entire message of the Bible and sort out the things of man that are misleading. That is where we are today, so misled we are a mess. Evil breeds more evil and one day it will become so bad the final judgement will come. God is very tolerant, he does not wish to act, but he knows he will one day have to. He will have to do what we will not do.

Gods Criminal Justice System, Bob Enyart I find this just about sums it up.

God gave us common sense too, and you know, just like the mass murderer in this article who was killed by another criminal, this is also Gods justice. Sometimes he does use us in a way to accomplish things, but he would not have a good man simply kill the murderer with malice and wish for revenge, but he will allow us as a people to kill him by law, and that is a entirely different attitude. It is the intent of the heart and the action. Each situation is so different and God judges them one by one, where we as humans put into place a law that is broad and general and does have failings.

Kit
"God gave us common sense too"
 
Member
God tried to teach the world that if you allow bad, and sin and murder and rape and stealing and all things that these things if not taken out of society will only corrupt society.

The lessons are very clear. From the old law to the new,
Kit
That isn't entirely true, Kit.
If we turn to Judges 20:48, or 1 Samuel 15 where we can read "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." we find that God does condone murder under certain circumstances.

One of the more eloquent apologists for divinely ordered murder, in my opinion, is Dr. William Lane Craig, who puts forth the Divine Command theory, which states that God, by His very nature, can not order people to do evil things, so everything He commands must be righteous.

Please note that I do not endorse this view. I merely point out that in sophisticated theological circles, Divine Command theory is a respectable opinion.

My chief concern with 1 Samuel 15 is the lot of the lamentable infant, suckling, ox, sheep, camel and donkey. They do not seem to have any blame in whatever theological transgressions that took place.

Donnie D.
 
Member
Capital Punishment: The death penalty for sin.

There are two forms of Government in the world. The Church government and the heathen government. Each is supposed to rule over their own people. Unfortunately, the heathen love to govern the church.

The Church's head is Christ who holds the sole authority on deciding who lives and who dies. He has judged that anyone who has never sinned has the right to cast the first stone. I agree with him.

Our earthen governments are not presently being ruled with a rod of Iron by the rightful judge and are therefore able to do what is right in there own eyes until the righteous judge of the universe makes his appearance. They decide at a whim what the law might be to govern the people. To kill or not to kill, that is the question.

True Capital Punishment is justified only when God decides who dies and for what. He can ordain whomever he chooses to enact the judgement but all must be in submission to the will of God. We are merely the sons of God and have no right to make those type of judgments without our Fathers approval. He gave that power to our older brother Jesus. And of course, he didn't tell us to kill anyone, but to love them.

God spoke explicitly in the OT that he would require the blood of man if he shed mans blood and many have taken this to support their claim to CP. Even if it were the case, one would have to say that that particular verse could only apply to murder. They may then point out the various laws enacted in the Mosaic Law and how there were many offenses executable by death. In this particular case we must see that God was the ruler of Israel and employed a mediator at any given time in the form of man to deliver his justice and condemnation to deserving individuals and nations. God is no longer ruling a single nation but is reaping the harvest for his kingdom which is not of this age. The time of the Gentiles is a time for the Gentiles to have dominion and rule over mankind here on Earth. God still is sovereign over who rules any given nation and does raise up rulers for his purposes. The Church however is supposed to be self governing through submission unto the Lordship of Jesus Christ who is the Prince of Peace. That being the peace of God which can only be had by being completely submissive to the Father.

Until Christ tells me to start executing, I will continue to dine with the ******, murderers, liars, thieves and adulterers so that I may call them to repentance and make them my brethren.

With Love in Christ,

Gary
 
Member
Capital Punishment: The death penalty for sin.

There are two forms of Government in the world. The Church government and the heathen government. Each is supposed to rule over their own people. Unfortunately, the heathen love to govern the church.

The Church's head is Christ who holds the sole authority on deciding who lives and who dies. He has judged that anyone who has never sinned has the right to cast the first stone. I agree with him.

Our earthen governments are not presently being ruled with a rod of Iron by the rightful judge and are therefore able to do what is right in there own eyes until the righteous judge of the universe makes his appearance. They decide at a whim what the law might be to govern the people. To kill or not to kill, that is the question.

True Capital Punishment is justified only when God decides who dies and for what. He can ordain whomever he chooses to enact the judgement but all must be in submission to the will of God. We are merely the sons of God and have no right to make those type of judgments without our Fathers approval. He gave that power to our older brother Jesus. And of course, he didn't tell us to kill anyone, but to love them.

God spoke explicitly in the OT that he would require the blood of man if he shed mans blood and many have taken this to support their claim to CP. Even if it were the case, one would have to say that that particular verse could only apply to murder. They may then point out the various laws enacted in the Mosaic Law and how there were many offenses executable by death. In this particular case we must see that God was the ruler of Israel and employed a mediator at any given time in the form of man to deliver his justice and condemnation to deserving individuals and nations. God is no longer ruling a single nation but is reaping the harvest for his kingdom which is not of this age. The time of the Gentiles is a time for the Gentiles to have dominion and rule over mankind here on Earth. God still is sovereign over who rules any given nation and does raise up rulers for his purposes. The Church however is supposed to be self governing through submission unto the Lordship of Jesus Christ who is the Prince of Peace. That being the peace of God which can only be had by being completely submissive to the Father.

Until Christ tells me to start executing, I will continue to dine with the ******, murderers, liars, thieves and adulterers so that I may call them to repentance and make them my brethren.

With Love in Christ,

Gary
God tell me this.

He says if a man is a murderer I am to look at the situation with wisdom. If this is a crime of passion such as a man kills his wife and is not a threat to society, then I can be lenient and allow God to exact revenge.

If this murderer is a very bad person, a child killer and rapist and I have children of my own and others in society have children them God authorizes me in the capacity of law and reason to execute him.

If this murderer stops me in the parking lot of a shopping mall to rob me at gun point, God authorized me to protect myself and kill him if possible. I am not required to submit to crime.

It is man who has created the situation we have today. Long ago they did not have prisons and institutions to house and feed and rehabilitate a criminal. So they exacted justice on the spot, either by execution or by the requirement to make restitution to the victim of the crime.

Places of haven and refuge were also provided for those who were caught up in an accident. This was provided so the relatives would not find them and kill them. An accident was an accident, where as today an accident is a crime. And one can receive more of a punishment for an accident than a deliberate act.

It is a balance of wisdom and common sense that is not even remotely known today. Common sense, wisdom and the way of God is buried in the world of today. In its place are great burdens upon the people to support and maintain crime and bad things. And we as God says are required to live within the laws of our government, but you see, today government is made up of us, we are the ones who create the government. It does not seem to me it is working out real well .

One more example of wisdom. Jesus told the woman who committed adultery to go and sin no more. He forgave her. He used wisdom . This was a crime against the will of God, and abuse of her own body. It was not a crime against any person. So he granted forgiveness. Now if she goes and sins again, what would he do, if she rejects the forgiveness and does this again? What would he do?

Or if this had been a man brought before him that had killed a child during the course of rape, would he let this person wander in society to commit this crime again??

I see much of the worlds situation as the misunderstanding of tolerance and acceptance.

When Jesus said turn the other cheek, he meant to do all you can do to prevent any situation for causing you to sin. To be meek and to try your best to accept and diffuse any situation, take three steps back if need be. If you need to give the man your entire savings to cause you to not sin and lash out and kill, do so .

But there is truth and wisdom to be considered also. If this man still intends to do you physical harm and or harm your family, well??

I pray, to Jesus and have many times, that wisdom and understanding will come to all and the tolerance of crime become understood.

Kit
 
Member
God tell me this.

He says if a man is a murderer I am to look at the situation with wisdom. If this is a crime of passion such as a man kills his wife and is not a threat to society, then I can be lenient and allow God to exact revenge.

If this murderer is a very bad person, a child killer and rapist and I have children of my own and others in society have children them God authorizes me in the capacity of law and reason to execute him.

If this murderer stops me in the parking lot of a shopping mall to rob me at gun point, God authorized me to protect myself and kill him if possible. I am not required to submit to crime.

It is man who has created the situation we have today. Long ago they did not have prisons and institutions to house and feed and rehabilitate a criminal. So they exacted justice on the spot, either by execution or by the requirement to make restitution to the victim of the crime.

Places of haven and refuge were also provided for those who were caught up in an accident. This was provided so the relatives would not find them and kill them. An accident was an accident, where as today an accident is a crime. And one can receive more of a punishment for an accident than a deliberate act.

It is a balance of wisdom and common sense that is not even remotely known today. Common sense, wisdom and the way of God is buried in the world of today. In its place are great burdens upon the people to support and maintain crime and bad things. And we as God says are required to live within the laws of our government, but you see, today government is made up of us, we are the ones who create the government. It does not seem to me it is working out real well .

One more example of wisdom. Jesus told the woman who committed adultery to go and sin no more. He forgave her. He used wisdom . This was a crime against the will of God, and abuse of her own body. It was not a crime against any person. So he granted forgiveness. Now if she goes and sins again, what would he do, if she rejects the forgiveness and does this again? What would he do?

Or if this had been a man brought before him that had killed a child during the course of rape, would he let this person wander in society to commit this crime again??

I see much of the worlds situation as the misunderstanding of tolerance and acceptance.

When Jesus said turn the other cheek, he meant to do all you can do to prevent any situation for causing you to sin. To be meek and to try your best to accept and diffuse any situation, take three steps back if need be. If you need to give the man your entire savings to cause you to not sin and lash out and kill, do so .

But there is truth and wisdom to be considered also. If this man still intends to do you physical harm and or harm your family, well??

I pray, to Jesus and have many times, that wisdom and understanding will come to all and the tolerance of crime become understood.

Kit
Wisdom is justified of her children.

I am an ambassador for Christ, he is my King.

He did not come into the world to execute the criminals nor teach me to do such things. He taught me to Preach the Kingdom of God which is coming and not here yet. When the Kingdom comes, then shall he rule the nations with a rod of iron. I would like to see those murderers come to repentance too and enter into the Kingdom of Heaven in submission to the king. How can that be if I execute them for their crimes? At least in prison there is hope that God may call, plant, water and give the increase. I pray for those murderers, that Gods grace would come upon them.
 
Member
Wisdom is justified of her children.

I am an ambassador for Christ, he is my King.

He did not come into the world to execute the criminals nor teach me to do such things. He taught me to Preach the Kingdom of God which is coming and not here yet. When the Kingdom comes, then shall he rule the nations with a rod of iron. I would like to see those murderers come to repentance too and enter into the Kingdom of Heaven in submission to the king. How can that be if I execute them for their crimes? At least in prison there is hope that God may call, plant, water and give the increase. I pray for those murderers, that Gods grace would come upon them.
There are two sides to this, always. From the totally lenient as we are today to the abuse of the capitol punishment used to kill witches and kill people for heresy.

In the Old Testament the people did as the law demanded. It was cut and dried, punishment was swift and sure. And it had great value as it was a huge message not to do the crime. But as we enter the New Testament age and the time of Jesus and Grace, people forget that God did and does use us as the means to accomplish his way. If a tribe in the day of old, put up idols and became totally sinful, God used other people to discipline them.

I can only imagine the horror of some of that, I ran a call this morning and the people had a little one year old girl, just learning to crawl, I could no more harm her than anything, no matter who her parents are or were or would be. So I guess I would be guilty of not obeying God as if he told me to do something like kill the child for the sin of the parents. I could not do so.

But in the New testament it says just what you have said, but it also says none of the law is abandoned, but full filled and no instruction manual is given in writing on how to conduct the affairs of the judicial system, it is left up to men with good sense. Well seems like we no longer have men with good sense, only men with greed and no sense.

In any event God put into place the judicial system and the rule of government to provide for and rule and protect society. But vote and decision the penalties for crime was to be known and carried out. This is the way God decided to take care of this situation.

It worked well for a time , but as time become more time and time went on the liberal tolerance grew, as even now we have the liberal tolerance of sexual ways not only tolerated but considered normal in our society. I use this as an example that is happening currently in our lives to illustrate how the entire system became corrupt.

We have not been good stewards of the system of government that was placed for us. We sat and did nothing. We were silent and did not speak. Our leaders and men of government and law became rich and prosperous over the system of crime, from the way of providing council for the accused and the repeals and they dragging out of justice to the building of prisons and the profits over this to those who manufacture the clothing to the vendors who provide the food and soap products. It is a money based system and many grow prosperous from this .

About a year ago I spoke with a man who was building a new soap dispenser for the use in the kitchen areas of the prisons. It was a pretty neat gadget and I came up with an idea or two also, but the thing was, the man in charge of this at the prison demanded a cut, and also wanted and expected other perks. The one who would win the bid for the installation of such products was to have to bribe the one in charge.

So we sat, we did not speak, we were silent and now we suffer the results of the modern age and way.

Most do not develop a good view of this as they are not personally effected in their lives by a violent crime. So they are very liberal in their views, and do wish to allow all things. To provide for and say let God deal with it. Those in life that are effected by the loss of a child to a pervert have a different outlook on things.

Well God uses us to deal with things. From the discipline of sin in the old testament to the judicial system of the new testament and the government. But we as men did a poor job. We became so compassionate and full of delusion that Satan took it all and used it to promote violence, crime and sin. He is doing good, and has little to do in the modern world as most do tolerate all things.

And we the ones who do see this and wish to change it, it is now too late as the system is in place. And as we do have to live within the law of the land, we now must abide by it. If we step outside of the law we now become the ones who receive punishment for this crime, which is just and understood, but should not be required , but in many instances in our modern world would be if justice is to be done. But it is not as the threat of justice on us is enough to keep us in check. So Satan has us, we allow, and it grows.

So we sat, and we were snuck up on. The intent was a good intent, but gradually the intent to protect the innocent, became the way of protection of the criminal and murderer.

We went to sleep, kinda late now. We simply have to live within it, and can stand by ourselves but we cannot conquer the corrupt way we have allowed.

Kit
 
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