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Can you loose your salvation?

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Member
Just wandering what you guys think about wether you can loose your salvation once you are born again?

i have just read a book which has opened my eyes to this but i would like to hear your thoughts with scriptures.

thankyou
 
Member
Yes it is possible to lose salvation. If we trespass against the Lord we lose grace, and grace is needed for salvation. If we do not express sorrow for this trespass we lose this redeeming grace permanently and thus we end up in Hell.
 
Member
avemaria said:
Yes it is possible to lose salvation. If we trespass against the Lord we lose grace, and grace is needed for salvation. If we do not express sorrow for this trespass we lose this redeeming grace permanently and thus we end up in Hell.
When I make the choice to believe, am I saved forever? Permanently??? (without a chance of losing it?) Yes!! As soon as you believe the truth of the gospel, God keeps His Word and gives you the gift of eternal life....(Titus 1:2) You are immediately washed of your sins, sanctified (set apart as holy) unto God, and justified (declared righteous) by God. (1 Corinthians 6:11) You are born again into God's family, regenerated and renewed by God's Holy Spirit, and made a new creation in Christ. ( Galations 3:26;Titus 3:5; II Corinthians 3:6,17) Upon belief, we are given the Spirit of life. The Holy Spirit of God indwells every Believer and, by His permanent abiding presence in us, we possess eternal life as a present possession. (Romans 8:2, 9; I Corinthians 6:19,20; II Corinthians 3:6,17) The Holy Spirit indwells the believer as soon as they believe, making them sons of God and sealing them until the day of redemption (the day Christ comes to take His purchased possession home to glory-bodily, physically, finally!) The Holy Spirit is called "THE EARNEST," which means "a down payment." The Holy Spirit is given to us from God as guarantee to us of eternal life. By the indwelling Holy Spirit, we have been given a down payment of eternal life promised by God. The Holy Spirit is said to be the seal of God's ownership until the day of redemption when He shall take us phisically unto Himself forever in the resurrection. (II Corinthians 1:20-22; 5:5,6; Ephesians 1:12-14; 4:30) We are saved eternally once we believe because that is what God has promised and God is always faithful to keep His Word. After all, isn't "ETERNAL LIFE" the gift that God has promised to give us upon belief? Then because God cannot lie, a life that never ends- eternally with Him- is exactly what we get the very moment we believe!!! (Romans 8:35-39; II Timothy 1:12; 2:11-13; Titus 1:2)
 
Member
Heh Guess this Question depends weather or not you are a Calvinist.

My Beliefs about this are Torn. I dont believe anyone who is "Truley saved" Can lose their salvation because they KNOW God exists, they cannot willingly turn thier backs on Him. But at the same time, I think a lot of people who claim the title "Christian" are not in fact Followers of Jesus.

Paul speaks a ton about Finishing the race and fightining in the Battle. So if you arnt doing these things, I would check yourself. I dont not believe works are necessary for salvation, but Like James said i believe works will necessarrly follow from being Saved.

So I am Unsure weather someone who is truly saved can lose their salvation. But my guess is, if your worried about it, your still saved. I hold this position, because Underlying your Question, is the asertion that God is in charge, and that He Judging you, and that You believe In the Atonement etc. So I would say Your still saved...assuming that question was of a personal nature.

Doulos
 
Member
Wow! Just posted in another thread regarding the same (similar) topic.

I think the answer is "yes", you can give up (not lose) your salvation, but it's based on your actions, not those of God. In other words, I don't believe God will revoke it, you have to turn away from it (salvation).

The verse I go by for confirmation of this is:

and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame. - Hebrews 6:6 (NLT)
If someone cannot be brought to repentace "again" that would mean they once had to have it. That seems to me to be clear proof that someone can give up their salvation - notice I did not say lose because if you remain faithful and pleasing in God's eyes, you won't lose it.

That's my understanding at least (which has been known to be severly limited ).

Dave
 
Member
I don't know, I really wish we were once saved always saved. But if that were the case then why did the prayer that Jesus gave us say, "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors"? If we have been forgiven already and are eternally secure, why would Jesus tell us to ask for forgivness? Wouldn't that be a little pointless to ask for forgivness when you have already been forgiven.
Lets say if you are saved, and you believe, and your going to heaven, why would you have to live a christian life? Your saved, nothing you can do can take that away. There is no reason not to sin because your salvaion has nothin to do with your works. Some say that if you do wrong after you are saved you are losing possible rewards in heaven. Who cares? your in heaven. I will gladly be a janitor in heaven, I don't care!
But that seems a little easy. And we are supposed to choose the narrow way, (not easy). But by choosing the narrow way we have to abstain from things that are not of God. (sin) If we are not trying to abstain from sin and we are not doing the things of God, we are not doing God's will, then we are not saved. (In my humble opinion.)

I am not totally convinced either way on this subject but for now I would have to say that you can lose your salvation.

God Bless
Bill
 
Member
Salvation = accepting Jesus Christ and His blood sacrifice on the cross in payment of our sins.
Repentance = something we do; works.


Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him that sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Everlasting life....not life until you sin again.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

By His sacrifice we are saved....forever!

I believe saying our Salvation is "on again, off again" diminishes the purpose of His Crucifixion.


Amen! :love:

GBU all!

Edit: Oh, and by the way, if sinning causes us to lose our salvation, woudn't that mean that satan has snatched us from the Father's hand? Do you really believe satan is that powerful? I don't.
 
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Member
Hmm...don't underestimate God. When He gave up His only son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins...that meant the sins of our past, present, and FUTURE.

You guys have salvation and sanctification kind of mixed up. x_x; Salvation is instantaneous...but sanctification is a life-long process.
 
Member
Hey Amen!

Please don't take this as criticism, I just want to understand what you are saying. What did you mean by "Repentance = something we do; works"? I thought repentance was recognizing/admitting your sins, apologizing to God for them and then turning away from sin.

********

And just to clarify my previous post:

Do I think you can lose your salvation? NO

Do I think you can turn from God and forfeit, give up, denounce your salvation? YES

God gave us a choice. We can believe Jesus died for our sins or we can not believe it. Just because someone believes (once believed) in Jesus and His sacrifice, does not prevent them from turning from those beliefs and His grace. I think that's what the Bible is talking about when it mentions "falling away". How could someone who was never a true believer "fall away" from something they didn't have in the first place? True believers CAN fall away because God gave them a choice.

If I decided today that the record of the Bible wasn't true and that Jesus wasn't who he said he was or that he didn't really exist or rise from the grave, would I still be saved?

God bless!

Dave
 
Member
Hey Amen!

Please don't take this as criticism, I just want to understand what you are saying. What did you mean by "Repentance = something we do; works"? I thought repentance was recognizing/admitting your sins, apologizing to God for them and then turning away from sin.
Hi, ((((Dave)))). No harm done, Brother. As a matter of fact, I welcome the question.

You are correct, repentance DOES mean “..recognizing/admitting your sins, apologizing to God for them and then turning away from sin.” I agree, but as Hakkiri said above (GBU Hakkiri, thx), “Salvation is instantaneous and sanctification is a lifelong process.” Thus, works. You work by praying, studying, witnessing, attending services, etc. to maintain your sanctification.

The instant you are saved, you are sanctified…purified, but God KNOWS that men are weak and will succumb to sin. He KNOWS that we will take the snow white robes He gave us upon salvation and turn them scarlet again. That’s why His plan of Salvation is so wonderful, so merciful and so perfect. He sent His Son with the PLAN to bleed and die for men He knew would give in to temptation over and over again. If His plan were to sacrifice His Son for only those who would remain pure, He would have wasted His time. That’s just not possible.

And just to clarify my previous post:
Do I think you can lose your salvation? NO
Do I think you can turn from God and forfeit, give up, denounce your salvation? YES
God gave us a choice. We can believe Jesus died for our sins or we can not believe it. Just because someone believes (once believed) in Jesus and His sacrifice, does not prevent them from turning from those beliefs and His grace.
There IS a distinct human understanding of the difference between “losing salvation”, which I’ve already described as not possible, in my belief, and “forfeiting salvation”, which I also believe isn’t possible AFTER genuine salvation. First you should understand what genuine salvation is. It is an express, unshakeable belief and full acceptance of the truth about Jesus’ origins, birth, earthbound purpose and accomplishments, death, resurrection and plan, as described in the Holy Bible; His Word. In accepting these truths, you GIVE your spiritual self fully to God. You now BELONG to Him. For any person or event to truly cause you to “change your mind”, then honestly, you weren’t a genuine believer to begin with and you didn‘t truly give yourself to Him. If you had, you would have been safely harbored from Satan’s influence. As I said before, it is NOT POSSIBLE for Satan to take believers out of the Father’s hand.
(*BTW, I don’t speak of you personally when I use the term “you”. I use the term loosely to represent anyone under these circumstances.)

I think that's what the Bible is talking about when it mentions "falling away". How could someone who was never a true believer "fall away" from something they didn't have in the first place? True believers CAN fall away because God gave them a choice.
I cannot agree with your suggestion that someone who was never a true believer didn’t have the offer of salvation in the first place. Just because they are non-believers, does not make God's offer any less valid or truthful. You're under the false assumption that you have to first accept something to forfeit it. The OFFER is the key in this regard. #3They forfeit (fall away)-- #2because they do not accept it -- #1because they do not believe it. I still disagree that "true believers" can fall away. God's grasp is firm and permanent.

From there is where I get a little foggy and need to study His Word to clarify. > A lot of people, myself included, don't fully understand the great White Throne Judgement. It is my limited understanding that those who are saved and caught up to Him will ALSO be judged on that day. That, I believe, is when and where our unforgiven sins will be accounted for. (Don't mistake the sinner for the sin, here. The sin cannot enter heaven, but the sinner, covered by the blood can.) That's where our faith will be tested by fire.

If I am wrong, on any count, I pray the Lord will forgive me for misleading anyone. I also pray He will lead someone to correct me. Each person reading this, including myself, should open their Bible and study the Word for themselves; not take my fallible, human reasoning on blind faith. You'd be wrongly putting faith in me when you should rely on Him. I am but a speck. Thank God He loves specks! Hallelujah!

Remember the verse quoted in my signature.

Have a blessed day, Dave. GBU!

Amen! :love:
 
Member
w00t, so knowledgable. What a God-given gift. Praise the Lord. XD

I agree with Amen! though. It takes a while to register because at the end, it depends on your heart. Where is your heart at?

God knows your heart. So could you try to answer that question?
 
Member
Amen - God bless you! Thanks so much for taking my response as sincere curiousity and not anything more. I am not good with words and always fear I am going to offend someone.

Also, thanks for such a thorough response!

I was mainly confused because when I saw "works". I *thought* you might be saying works were needed in order to repent. Thanks for clarifying!

Thus, works. You work by praying, studying, witnessing, attending services, etc. to maintain your sanctification.
Totally agree!! I've always believed that someone has to "practice" at being a Christian. In other words, it doesn't come naturally and you have to work at it.

I agree with you that's it's not possible to lose salvation, but I do think somone can turn from God - regardless of their current or future status. Otherwise Hebrews 6:4-6 would make no sense - IMO.

Please read Hebrews 6 (specifically 4-6) and share your thoughts. I don't claim infallible understanding on this either and always want to seek and know the truth.

Also, I may have been unclear. I did not mean to imply that some people never have the offer or the chance of salvation - I believe that God has made it available to everyone. I guess I am not clear either on the whole concept of falling away. I want to study up on that some.

Wanted to go into more detail, but the day is catching up with me. :sleep:

I may re-read and repsond some more tomorrow.

God bless!!!

Dave

PS - I knew you didn't mean me personally but thanks for saying so!

PSS - I am not saying you are wrong either. Hope it doesn't come across that way.
 
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Member
It's my pleasure to discuss His Word with you, Brother Dave. Don't ever worry about offending me. The Good Lord has blessed me with an abundance of patience. The glory for my posting is also His. I, alone, am a poor writer and communicator. As a matter of fact, I keep re-reading what I posted out of amazement. It's like His words flowed through my fingers! Praise the Lord! Thank You, Jesus!

I'll read the scripture you've suggested. Thank you.

I look forward to further discussion with you.

Goodnight, Dave. Sleep well and God bless you!

Amen! :love:
 
Member
Study of Hebrews 6:4-8

Okay, I'm too into this conversation to sleep, so I studied some of the book of Hebrews, especially the passages you recommended, along with other versions and their footnotes. I am thoroughly blessed by what I've learned. Praise the Lord for you leading me there! It doesn't, however, disprove my understanding of Salvation as "Once saved, Always saved". As a matter of fact, it actually bolsters my understanding. I'll try to explain:

Hebrews 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessings from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

KJV

Overall, the book of Hebrews does two specific things throughout it's chapters: First, it describes how, through the Crucifixion, the era of Judaism had come to an end. Secondly, it warns the Jewish professed believers(they may very well have been believers, but they hadn't yet taken the last step) of the danger of lapsing back into Judaism, or pausing and turning back from the threshold of Salvation; faith in Jesus Christ.

Focusing specifically on the passages you suggested, and considering it within it's entire context, I find the understanding that these Jewish people had professed their faith, they had tasted of the heavenly gift, they were once enlightened, meaning their faith was under the Mosaic Covenant, which came before the New Covenant. Once the New Covenant was made, they were required to change direction, so-to-speak. To meet a new, different requirement.

*(I suggest for both of us, that we study, in depth, both the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant, and the difference between the two, to fully understand what we're discussing here.) :wink:

That requirement was the acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Saviour, their Messiah. In accepting Him, they received Salvation.

When the words falling away occur in the passages, it's in the context of warnings given to these Jewish professed believers that if they 'halt short of faith in Jesus Christ after advancing to the very threshold of salvation', in other words, if they fail to renew themselves, refuse to repent and accept Christ and His gift of salvation, they will be rejected and they will be like the land that bore thorns and briers; whose end is to be burned.

In short, the people referred to in Hebrews 6:4-8 had not yet believed Jesus was who He was and what His crucifixion meant for them. They were within reach of salvation, but at risk of falling away from the best thing that ever happened to them.

In modern times, the lost are in the same type situation. They climb an uphill incline before they reach the precipice of the cliff where, in this case, jumping is a good thing (salvation), but they eventually fall back away from the edge and tumble back down to the bottom; back into the struggles and anguish they fight so hard to leave behind. That would be "falling away".

Also of note, the footnotes of Hebrews, chapter 6 makes reference to Deuteronomy 1:19-26. In these passages we read the story about how God commanded Moses to lead the Israelites, finally, out of the wilderness and in to possess the land of the Amorites. When they came to Kadesh-barnea, they sent men ahead to check out the land. Then men returned with fruit in hand and reported that the land God had given them was good. But they disobeyed God's commandment and did not go because they feared the Amorites. They distrusted God. They had seen the land was good, they had the very fruit of it in their hands, yet they turned back! :omg:

Hope this helps.

Amen! :love:
 
Member
Amen - Bless you for your thoughts and insight on this!! It has definitely given me much to think on.

I actually picked up my commentary and the first sentence after verses 4-6 was "Hebrews 6 has been a battlefield for centuries." :lightning:

It actually touched on four separate schools of thought regarding these passages. I guess you could say I feel like someone who was handed a stick and shown a bees nest!

I certainly agree with you regarding more study. I love learning God's word and will for us!!

On this point though, I think I will keep an open mind and devote more time to study. Thank you so much for the open discussion! It is great to be in a place where discussions from different viewpoints can be had without tempers or emotions taking over!

God bless you and have a great day!!!

Dave
 
Member
Would you mind sharing these four schools of thought on this subject, Dave? Where would I find this information? A link? Book? email? I'm very interested in researching it further, as well.

GBU too, Dave!

Amen! :love:
 
Member
Hey Amen! Sorry for the slow reply.

I found this in my KJV Bible commentary from Thomas Nelson Publishers (ISBN 0-7852-4602-9). It doesn't go into great detail, but it does give reference to other sources.

It actually states "Though many interpretations of these verses have been proposed, four common, contemporary views merit listing."

It then gives an overview of these four and list references. Definitely appears to be a thoroughly debated topic.

God bless!!

Love in Christ,
Dave
 
Member
Jehovah Jireh said:
Just wandering what you guys think about wether you can loose your salvation once you are born again?

i have just read a book which has opened my eyes to this but i would like to hear your thoughts with scriptures.

thankyou
John 17:3 says "And this is the way to have eternal life - to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the One you sent to earth." (NLT).

To "know" means to have an intimate, personal relationship. My own salvation has been marked by a steady development of that intimate relationship with the Father and the Son for some twenty -two years. When I first turned my life over the Jesus in 1983, I sincerely wanted that relationship, but the desire wasn't nearly as passionate as it is now.

I decided, long ago, to seek God on a daily basis; to grow in the knowledge of His Word and be drawn to Him.

Had I not conciously made that decision, it is very possible that I would have lost my salvation because my love for Him would have grown lukewarm and then gone cold and I would not have been able to weather the storms I've weathered. I would have grown apart from Him and walked away from Him permanently and on my own and by myself I'm a selfish little boy in a sixty-eight year old body.
 
Member
It isn't a matter of whether you can lose your salvation, but rather...Who holds your salvation? And where does He dwell? And who may approach Him? And why?
 

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