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Can not know the Lord without Repentance??

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by Dave M, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. I see some people wondering about faith and why they can not seem to find any, I wonder can we even know the Lord if we do not admit to our selves we are sinners and need a savior.

    what say you??

    me I do not see how it is possible to know the lord with out first realizing we are sinners and need a savior
  2. #2 B-A-C, Apr 7, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
    This is a good question.

    Some people believe there is an "order" of salvation. That may sound crazy but bare with me here for a minute.

    John the Baptist came "BEFORE" Jesus. Why didn't he came after Jesus?

    Matt 11:10; "This is the one about whom it is written, 'BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.'
    Mark 1:2; As it is written in Isaiah the prophet: "BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY;
    Luke 7:27; "This is the one about whom it is written, 'BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.'

    This is quoting Isaiah 57, as a prophecy about John the Baptist. But it seems that John's purpose was to "Prepare a way" for Jesus.
    What was that "way"?

    John says his message is repentance. In fact he baptizes with water "for repentance". So repentance comes first.
    Once we have repented... someone else comes... not the John the Baptist. Someone John the Baptist is not even worthy
    to unlace His sandals. (... and yet later John the Baptist even baptizes Jesus!)

    Acts 13:24; after John had proclaimed before His coming a baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."

    We think of John the Baptist was baptizing in water... and so he did. But his message was repentance. He baptized people into repentance.

    Matt 3:11; "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

    Mark 1:7; And he was preaching, and saying, "After me One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to stoop down and untie the thong of His sandals.

    John 1:15; John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
    John 1:27; "It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."

    The one who comes after John (Jesus of course) will baptize us with the Holy Spirit. But if John the baptist signifies repentance,
    and Jesus can't come until after John has done his part.

    If we haven't really repented, can we really even come to Jesus? There is a thought that we don't have the power to overcome sin on our own. I totally agree with that statement. We have to be empowered by the Holy Spirit to overcome sin.

    But while the Holy Spirit empowered us and is our "helper" ( John 14:16; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7; )
    The Holy Spirit does not make decisions for us. We still have free will. So we make a decision to repent. It is our decision.
    This repentance "prepares the way" for Jesus. Just like John the Baptist "prepared the way" for Jesus.
    One the way is paved so to speak... now Jesus and the Holy Spirit can move in our lives.
    Wired 4 Fishen likes this.
  3. I don't think we can paint God into a box and say what he does or doesn't do and when. One of the problems with "people wondering" why they can't find faith, is because God hasn't given it to them yet..... it is not up to them to produce or find it! Faith, repentance, knowing you are a sinner in need of a savior are all very important, I'm just not sure how the sequence goes...I think that is up to God and the individual.
  4. That was the problem with the Pharisees. So many of them were convinced that they had all the answers and knew everything, and that was their undoing.
    Born Again 2004 likes this.
  5. Frankly, I think all men know they are sinners.
    They just don't know that they can quit sinning.
    When their sorrow for their sins grows to the point that they will do anything to stop doing the ungodly, God will be there to give them teachers who will lead them into the ways of righteousness.
    It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
    Christ4Ever likes this.
  6. Pride, the original sin!
  7. I disagree, I think most, like me, don't even know what sin is until they are saved. Not that you ever stop sinning completely but, with out God in you, you can't see your sin!
  8. God has given every man a conscience to sort out good from bad.
    If a man doesn't know something is a sin, God will make it known to him before he hurts himself or others if his love for God is real.
    BTW, you can stop sinning, when ever you decide to love God above all else.
  9. 1 Corinthians 2:14
    The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

    Blessings to you and your family Brother @Dave M
    Dave M likes this.
  10. Yes and I think this is a sign that God exists but a good conscience has nothing to do with acknowledging sin in your life!
    If you have scripture on this, I would love to see it! Life is and has been full of individuals that aren't conscience of sin and hurt themselves and plenty of others!
  11. If you think this is a good sign that God exists, then you must recognize the effect of a conscience on one's decisions.
    You acknowledge the God but not His gracious works.

    It troubles me that you would ignore the camel to strain at a gnat.
    It is written..."For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy:" (Eccl 2:26)
    People who hurt themselves and others are not devoid of conscience: they just ignore that which has been given to them by God.
  12. If you don't know what sin is, why do you think you need to be saved?
  13. Man Won't Know, understand or grasp what all is seen as sin until he is born again and God begins to work in him.
    Born Again 2004 likes this.
  14. The above quote was directed to
    (If you have scripture on this, I would love to see it! Life is and has been full of individuals that aren't conscience of sin and hurt themselves and plenty of others!)

    Even Christians can and do ignore their conscience or the Holy Spirit and get into trouble.

    Anyone including Christians can ignore their God given conscience unto the point it just is not there any more.
    AKA. A Hardened Heart.
    • That is simple many don't.
    • Here are some people who probably didn't know what sin is and still believe they were saved: Matthew 7: 21-23
    • The ancient Israelite's were given the 10 commandments because they knew not sin.
    • Even St. Paul: Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." Paul was an Pharisee or a Pharisee to be and, he knew the commandments as as well as any but, not until he was saved did he understand what sin was.
  15. Psalm 51:17 agrees 100% with you but it is not all inclusive.

    The sinner has to repent. He knows this. What about the righteous? Those who feel they have nothing of which to repent? Even after examining themselves?

    If anyone is after God's heart. God pays them a visit. Whether it be a sinner repenting or a ''not so bad'' sinner trying his best to be 'not so bad'.

    God gives us 'impeccable' faith. Like faith in gravity. Peter had faith in Jesus being Lord after God revealed it to him in Matt 16:16-17. But not faith like his faith to walk on water. This faith in Jesus was on another level of faith.
  16. Thanks for your participation, but I was hoping BA04 would answer.
    If your conscience is offended, it is sin.
    Men don't need to be Christians to realize murder and theft are wrong.
  17. Only the mentally challenge can get away with that excuse.

    Your expectations of Christians is wrong.
    Just because men say they are followers of Christ doesn't mean it is true.
    Those who commit sin certainly are NOT followers of Christ/Christian.
  18. Again go beyond the big 10.
    There are sins in a man's life that will take God to reveal them.
  19. Pray you don't get judged by your standards.

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