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Can a born again Christian lose their salvation?

Discussion in 'Introduction' started by moznpeg, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. I was recently at a church and the pastor told me that we as born again believers in Christ can lose our salvation if we are saved but then decide to "reject the Holy Spirit" and also if we are walking with our Savior Jesus but then sin, and then die while sinning, he says that we can be lost for eternity and we would be rejected by Jesus on judgement day. What's up with that?
     
  2. #2 amadeus2, Sep 24, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
    The way I see it, is that salvation is a process of having been saved from things, which have stood between and God but we also must continue to be saved from things, which are between us and God until none remain. The ongoing process is possible only if we continue to allow the Holy Spirit in us to do the still necessary work. We can prevent the Holy Spirit. God gave us the ability to prevent the Holy Spirit from working in us and unfortunately, most of us have done so, but it is a practice that needs to be discouraged and discontinued:

    "Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
     
  3. It might be if you reject Christ for the rest of your life after you've been born again. I don't think we're supposed to work for our salvation, or maintain our salvation, as that would be either a salvation via works or maintenance, not by faith. Yet we shouldn't be fooled and commit sin left and right just because we have obtained the free gift of salvation, for one, will cause us to be chastened during our life, second, will require an answer at the judgement of the saints, and three, doing so would honor God with our lips, but not our actions.
     
  4. Grace and peace,

    If you had it, you will not lose it, but only GOD knows it, and no one can take away from GOD what is HIS.

    ISAIAH 43:12-13
    I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—
    I, and not some foreign god among you.
    You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “that I am God.
    Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
    No one can deliver out of my hand.
    When I act, who can reverse it?”

    JOHN 6:43-47
    “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered.
    “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
    It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’
    Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
    No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
    Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.


    GOD will call who is HIS ( who HE wants), and they will know ( individually) what HE wants of them.
    BUT OF COURSE ALL BELIEVERS know if CHRIST is the center of their lives if they are obeying the commands:


    MARK 12:29-31
    and
    MATTHEW 5:43-48

    IF love for all is not in the heart, then there is a key to whether CHRIST is there.

    AGAPE
     
  5. Those who are true Christians, the Bible tells us, will persevere to the end, “eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end” 1 Corinthians 1:7-8 NKJV. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory” Ephesians 1:13-14. This, then, is the true meaning of confirmation—salvation was purchased by the blood of Christ in whom we have faith, it is evidenced by our walk with Him, and it is confirmed to us by the Holy Spirit within.

    If I were at a church where the pastor made such a claim, I could not run fast enough.
     
  6. #6 farout, Sep 24, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
    This is a very mixed up pastor! There are those who do not understand what etrenal or "no one can pluck them out of my hand" I guess they don't understand the literal meaning of words like etrenal. I feel sorry for those who teach this, but I take what the Bible says very literal. Now you too take what the Bible says and you can't not go wrong.

    This has been a long debate that seems to be endless.
     
  7. Praise God and Amen. I've experienced the chastening part while I turned my back but I never stopped believing and I surely put off and delayed my blessing here that our Father God had for me. Again I say "PRAISE GOD".
     
  8. #8 DutchChristian, Sep 25, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
    Yes you can lose your salvation.

    Here is some Scripture to refute the wicked OSAS lie:

    1 Corinthians 1:2
    Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

    Written to unbelievers? No to everyone that calls upon the Name of Jesus Christ to them that ARE sanctified in Christ Jesus.

    1 Corinthians 3:17
    If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    1 Corinthians 9:27
    But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    What a frightening concept. Even the great apostle Paul knew of the possibility of falling away!

    1 Corinthians 15:1-2
    Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    2 Corinthians 13:5
    Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    Galatians 5:4
    Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    The possibility of falling from grace exists, and mere human good works are dangerous if trusted upon for righteousness.

    Philippians 2:12
    Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    Does that sound like don't worry the everything is ok message OSAS gives?

    Colossians 1:23
    If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

    Does that imply OSAS? If ye continue in the faith?

    1 Timothy 4:1
    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    How can you "depart" from the faith, if you're not "in the faith" to begin with right?

    Hebrews 3:6
    But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

    Another IF statement, showing the necessity of overcoming, perservering faith in the Christian life.

    Hebrews 3:12-13
    Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

    He said He would never leave or forsake us, but we are Given free will and must make the decision whom we will serve and stay faithful.

    Hebrews 3:14
    For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

    Hebrews 4:1
    Let us therefore fear, lest, a promisebeing left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

    James 5:19-20
    Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

    Written to the "brethren" who have "erred from the truth" (how can you err from the truth if you were not previously established in the truth?). Such a soul is in danger of death!

    And finally:

    2 Peter 3:17-18
    Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


     
  9. Dutch,

    Grace and peace to you.

    Love you dearly in JESUS holy name, but read the passages over again.


    AGAPE
     
  10. "We proclaim Him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. To this end I labor, struggling with all His energy, which so powerfully works in me. (Col 1:28-29)

    If, as some seem to believe, salvation is assured by a single act of praying some sort of sinner's prayer, how is it that Paul had to struggle to establish and maintain the churches in Asia Minor? Isn't it true that those believers were constantly under intense pressure to revert back to their old ways? And isn't it true that believers today, especially new believers, are also constantly under pressure and many of them do give in and revert back? Satan and his servants do not give up easily!

    SLE
     
  11. #11 lordjesuschrist, Sep 26, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
    Grace and peace to all,

    No one knows when a believer really " reverts" back or not, because GOD judges the heart; no man knows the heart.
    If we were looking at things like that, then PETER would have never made it.
    But JESUS knew his heart, so, all the sins and falling back off the same message of patience that JESUS was teaching him would have had him condemned.
    But JESUS knew the teachings of the evil ones and so had love and patience for HIS followers.

    As far as the challenges in ministry and places of ministry being hard to preach to??
    That's almost all the Bible stories: Moses story with Israel, david's story, Jonah's story, JESUS story, and more.......

    As far as one prayer healing someone with one simple prayer ( not prayer is simple), or just a simple gesture??
    Yes, it's very possible, because it's not the prayer, it's the FAITH behind the prayer.
    Lets look:
    The centurion's faith healed his son.
    The blind man's faith cured him when JESUS touched him.
    The faith of the woman that touched JESUS garment healed her.
    Many believed when Paul was doing ministry and were converted and received the Holy Spirit in seconds.
    and there are more " over night" examples.

    Believers get out of the teachings of the Pharisees, who now exist and teach the BIble through trials and tribulations in order to receive your attention and praise.
    Which is only to stop you from worshipping GOD and get into worshipping mans' intelligence and beauty ( which GOD created).
    JESUS warned us what they want, which is what the devil wants:

    JOHN 12:42-43
    Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.


    Because of the devil and the 3rd of the angels, there will be temptations, but, the Pharisees and their children, and they are too big to look for them under the name Pharisees anymore.
    They were Jews at that time, and can be CHristian, Muslims, buddhists, doctors, lawyers, dancers, and under any name now; but dont be paranoid. THey are not worth the time or energy.

    BECAUSE THE FOCUS NEEDS TO BE MORE ON:


    Really looking at JESUS life, HIS only recorded trial and tribulation was the sacrifice and looking at how weak we were.
    Other than that, HE spread the word, did miracles, and healed people; there was not trial and tribulation in that.
    Then HE left that power here for us to use, but only through FAITH, PRAYER and FASTING; that's the remedy to all of this.

    WITH THAT BEING SAID!!

    I HAVE A QUESTION TO ALL OF YOU:

    Now ask yourselves today and everyday.
    Of course you have faith.
    BUT DO YOU PRAY and FAST??
    HAVE YOU PRAYED and FASTED 40 DAYS and NIGHT? ( before anyone asks me, yes I have. Fast every year, and the power GOD gives is amazing; I speak from experience; praise GOD for all things).
    DO YOU FAST and PRAY FROM SIN? ( not just at LENT)
    DO YOU FAST AND PRAY FOR ANSWERS??

    If not, then understand that most of your trials and tribulations will come from not listening to the power and remedies CHRIST left us over the demons ( and they work through the various jobs of the Pharisees who are just humans that love confusion).

    MARK 9:25-29
    When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it: "Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!"
    Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, "He is dead."
    But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.
    And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, "Why could we not cast it out?"
    So He said to them, "This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting."


    Learn the power given, it's in the WORD.
    Everyone read the WORD for yourself while you go to the physical church and while you are always in the spiritual church ( GOD and you).
    There will always be a rebuttal to truth ( the devil and his followers do this).
    But I know believers will see this and change.
    This is the change that is needed.
    Rely fully on HIM.


    AGAPE ALWAYS TO ALL!!
     
  12. Hello everyone, Praise God the God of Israel. This is an interesting subject and I appreciate the posts. They're definitely edifying. I would like to state my thoughts that I believe are Holy Spirit inspired: When we get saved, do we really mean it with, not only our mouth but also with our hearts. I mean a real life changing Holy Spirit filled experience with Jesus the Christ! Did we all truly repent? I did and since I'm still trying to surrender to my Savior daily, I believe that he will keep pouring his Agape into me and make me thirst for him. I will not turn to the left nor the right but I will follow my Jesus, our Jesus down His Path. I'm inclined to say that even though I believe that we cannot lose our salvation if we really did accept Jesus into our hearts. Even if you backslide, you, as a child of God know because the Holy Spirit is living inside your heart. If you fall away, did you truly repent? When we got saved, it was Jesus' blood that cleansed us...that's what the Word says right? If it weren't so, then that part of the bible wouldn't be true. We have to take all the scripture and read it and ask God to help us understand His Word and He will...in Jesus' Holy Name. I think when we read the Word daily, it all comes together like His golden chain. All the scriptures, the whole bible...think about His Word as the golden chain. It all goes together. If I'm wrong, please help me out here God willing.......PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME...........GLORY TO THE LORD OF HOSTS.
    Moznpeg out here in the foothills of the beautiful coastal mountains of California.
     
  13. #13 lordjesuschrist, Sep 27, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
    Grace and peace to you,

    Many believers must re-program all they been taught and read the full bible cover to cover and take notes; as they still read it daily.
    It's so important.
    Don't let only your minister, priest, or pastor's understanding be your own, because GOD gave each of us a part of the spiritual gift of the ONE BODY.
    EACH PERSON HAS A GIFT!

    SO, with that being said, let's look at the word " saved".
    PARABLE
    There is a person swimming in deep water and can't see anything, and is asked to be " saved" from this situation, as they are drowning and taking in water.
    They are crying out feverishly and can't understand how they were taking so far from sure.
    Then a lifeguard hears their cry, and comes and saves them.
    They saw nothing at first, and don't know where the lifeguard came from, but they are just joyous however he saved them.
    They don't know how he saved them, they don't know what place he is taking them to for safety, but they are glad he did and know they are saved.


    CHRIST is our lifeguard.
    When we are saved through HIS grace, we have to realize that we can't receive HIM.
    HE RECEIVES US ( just like the lifeguard receives us).
    When we call out and dont' know where HE is, then HE knows where we are.
    We can't ACCEPT HIM as people say, HE can ACCEPT US ( as we cried out).
    We can't tell him what we will do, we were saved by HIM, so, HE will put HIS ways in us, and HIS requirements for being saved.



    Those who just use HIS HOLY NAME without believing in order to fool believers into worshipping them ( known as Pharisees, Sandherins and other humans that took a covenant to follow the devil and the 3rd of the angels).
    These people are the ones that have taught weak believers these terms.
    So, when weak believers see these false teachers ( and they are everywhere), doing acts of sin and speaking JESUS holy name, and then putting on an act of crying and repenting, this is where people get the word; backsliding.
    It's all false.

    Once the heart is geared to the LORD, there is no more backsliding.
    There is only learning.
    JESUS knows that the human body is habitual.
    The flesh learns habits.
    That's why GOD judges the heart not so much our actions; or else we would be finished.


    GOD knows that we were taught by the Pharisees from that of infants, and taught all kinds of sin.
    People make a mistake with the Adam and Eve born in sin concept.
    That worked for the OLD Testament, but when CHRIST came, HE brought NEW LIFE, NEW EXISTENCE, and a HOLY SPIRIT!
    That's why HE showed us the new enemy; the Pharisees and the new place of sinful ways; a building ( not just a church, but schools, and any thing that can confine us to be away from our parents to be taught things they would not teach us), where we are taught to glorify them and sin.
    These are the sins that JESUS is getting rid of in all of us.
    This is why HE had sorrow for us.

    This is why JESUS was animate about them, because GOD wasn't doing what HE was doing in the OT and coming in a voice, cloud, or thunder and teaching directly; ISRAEL/Jews ( which only means believer, it's not a race)wasn't listening to that ( some were).
    GOD tried a different way because of ISRAEL's hardening of heart; GOD went to the GENTILES ( non-believers).

    So, through false teachings, we have accumlated from an infant, sins that were almost 5 days a week in school, false teachings in church, media related idols, and more......JESUS has HIS work cut out for HIM.

    So, GOD, depending on the heart of the individual works with them at a pace where they can learn HE loves them because HE is taking them out of the sins they learned.


    As far as who truly has the HOLY SPIRIT and had a life changing experience??
    Only GOD knows who has a real life changing experience, because it starts in the heart, not the actions.
    The actions will eventually follow, but GOD is an awesome GOD and gets all the praise.


    So when humans don't see the change in someone, they think someone did not change.
    So, they leave that person's presence thinking that person never will, but GOD is doing the change for HIM, not for us to see. Because GOD gets all the praise.



    Funny the classic story of change is people that hate someone till somone one they are on their death bed in a hospital telling them how much they loved them. Then both are hugging and crying for all the judging they did and realizing they did not know each other's heart.


    We must remember that HE comes to us when we are low.
    Everyone has their different low that only GOD knows.
    We can't judge our low with someone else's; we are not them.

    So, after all this, then, GOD is grace and merciful and loving and more, because.....
    HE is teaching us how to access HIM; through prayer.
    HE also through JESUS CHRIST is teaching us how to push away those same demons that came through others that caught us as a child; we push them away through prayer and fasting.

    As far as repenting and confessing, we do that when we cry out after each sin and have GOD acknowledge that we don't know what we are doing and need more guidance.
    The flesh is a machine that answers to the false teachings in the mind.
    As Paul says, " What I want to do I dont do, and what I dont do I do".

    When we repent and confess of our sins to one another that we have done to one another, that is a healing for each person; this is a part of confessing and repenting many miss.
    THis is another place many believers have to change, because we don't follow this, many are punished by GOD for leaving others in the dark while they just run to a minister or pray to GOD to confess.
    Leaving a person in the dark gives the devil more time to play with them; we pay for that as believers, and then we are allowed to be left to our false teachings for our weakness to confess and get a brother/sister we sinned against out of the darkness of our sin.
    If we can repent and confess to GOD, but never go to the people we sinned against, and can't forgive those that sinned against us, that punishment for this is what people mistake as backsliding.
    Here is a sign that CHRIST is not in the midst; even though the human can be able to use the word REPENT, CONFESS, SAVED, JESUS, etc.......


    Our command till HE comes again is this, and this is the original command given to Adam and Eve:

    MARK 12:29-31
    “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
    Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
    The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.
    There is no commandment greater than these.”

    When a believer just focuses on this, then the love that surpasses all understanding is here on earth, and then they understand when JESUS says, " my yoke is easy and my burden is light".

    AGAPE.
     
  14. #14 Rev T.S.Perkins, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
    I dont belive we can lose an eternal Gift of God..It can always be found at the cross..we do need to take hold of it and apply it dailey or we will lay it to the side carlessly.
    .with out dailey examination of our condition at the time of Redemption we will fall back in to our old nature ..I know this first hand as i forgot who I was in Christ and moreover Who Christ was in me for 5 yrs after a divorce ..But my God sought me out and reminded me of His great love for Me .and restored me back to His Grace ..LOST NO just misplaced ..I found grace waitnig for me at the cross as it does for us all..redemption is once and for ever, salvation is an on going thing...Rev IMHO
     
  15. Matthew 10
    33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    Hebrews 12
    14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

    1 Corinthians 9
    27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
     
  16. #16 faithfulservant, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012

    There are only two ways you can lose your salvation:

    #1) If you willingly put yourself back under a yoke of bondage, assuming you must "do" something in order to be saved. We are saved by grace, through faith. If we hold strong to that faith, fully persuaded the only thing that could cover our sins is the blood sacrifice Jesus gave at the cross, we will never have any condemnation, but we will have eternal life.

    Read Galatians. Many Christians start out by faith, and they are saved because they trust God and what His Son did. But Satan tries to bring in destructive ideas that we need to "do" something to make sure we're saved. The only thing we "do" is believe in Jesus' work on the cross. What happens to people is they "fall away" from the glorious grace which is continually being given out to Christians as they walk with the Lord and stumble as they mature.

    Now there are many stern warnings against wantonly sinning even though we have this faith, and I will explain about why that is important at the end.

    #2) The second way we can lose our salvation is if we deny Jesus is Lord, King, and our Savior. When we do this, we basically reject what He did on the cross and we invoke the curse of the law onto ourselves. This is why it's important for people to be "clothed with power from on high" with the Holy Spirit of God. Have you been baptized with the Spirit of God? Start praying for that baptism if you have not.

    Peter denied Jesus three times! Peter was saved, Jesus breathed His Spirit onto Him in John chapter 20. He was spiritually made alive. But that was before the day of Pentecost, wherein he was dipped into the power of the Holy Spirit and given power to overcome sin, this world, and the evil one. They are two different things. Being saved by faith is the first step. The baptism of the Holy Spirit for power from on high is something that is available to those who are saved by faith. This power will get you through any trial or tribulation. Additionally, God is so merciful that if He puts you into a position where you have to chose, I believe He will give you the strength to stand strong in Christ. Every day, all across our world, people are martyred for Jesus. They do not deny Him, and He does not deny them.

    Now about all the warnings about sin: Sin is deceitful. The LORD personified sin when He spoke of it in scriptures because it's powerful in our bodies and it will continually try to drag us away from the Lord if we're not careful.

    This means Christians should not take sin in their lives lightly. If we do, we risk becoming deceived by our sin and ending up where we will either fall away from grace and accept a yoke of bondage as I mentioned in the first instance, or we will become weak enough in our faith that we will deny our Lord.

    If you are conscious of your sin, and you know it's bad, and you're continuing on with the Lord, you have nothing to fear. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ! Confess your sin daily, and He will cleanse you.

    Consider when Jesus washed the apostles feet. Peter said he wouldn't let Him. Jesus said, "If I don't cleanse you, you have no part in Me."

    Jesus was talking of the importance of spending time with Him, abiding in Him, so He can sanctify us as we walk in this world. Our feet will get a bit dirty, we will stumble and make mistakes and sin still. But He will clean us up and keep us holy.

    Then Peter was like, "Wash my head and everywhere then!"

    Jesus said, "The one who has bathed does not need to wash, except for his feet, but is completely clean. And you are clean..."

    This scripture says so much! Check it out: If you have faith that Jesus covered your sins with His saving work at the cross, you are "bathed." That means you have been clothed with His righteousness and are now able to boldly go to God's throne as one of His children. You don't need to take a bath, you just need to spend time with Him so He can wash the dirt from our feet as we walk in this world in these fragile, fallen vessels.

    My friend, do not be afraid. Stand strong in what Jesus did for us! There's nothing else in the world that can save us. Then, spend time with Him every day. Confess your sins to Him every day, and be fully persuaded that when you do so Jesus is washing your feet. By faith, you will know you have been cleansed and that no guilt remains. You are free from condemnation!
     
  17. #17 faithfulservant, Sep 29, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
    One other very important thing:

    There is a very clear, strong call within the scriptures to sanctification and holiness. These scriptures are serious. It's God's will that everyone grows and matures in Christ. These scriptures have attached to them AWESOME rewards!

    We need to take them seriously. But, and this is a big but, eternal life as promised by faith in Jesus' work on the cross does not hinge upon this sanctification and holiness.

    Many people take these scriptures and apply it to the eternal life we have by faith in Jesus' sacrifice. This is not biblical, and is a dangerous heresy. It brings many believers under a yoke of bondage.

    Does that mean we should go on sinning without a care? By no means! If we spend time with Jesus, in His Word, and fellowshipping with brethren, we will be changed and sanctified supernaturally by His power.

    For some, it's like a sprint as they mature. For others, it's kinda slow. Still others, it's like pulling teeth. God wants you to mature and change and be transformed, but He will not override your freewill. He put out fantastic rewards for those who stick with Him and are easy to be changed, soft in the heart, ready to recognize their need to be sanctified, zealous to do good works in Jesus' name.

    This is where the dying to self comes in. This is where we pick up our cross. This is the race we run. This is where we sacrifice things in our own life for what God wants to do through you for others in this world.

    It's awesome, and it needs to be proclaimed loudly through the congregation. God has set down works from the foundation of the world for every believer to walk in, but many are not walking in those works. Our works will be tested by fire. The things we did that were not what He called us to do will be burned up like stubble, hay, wood. The things we willingly do that He's called us to do, will endure like fine gold and gemstones. This will represent the kind of reward we will receive.

    Many Christians will be so sad when they see what they could have allowed the Lord to do through them, but didn't because of stubbornness, selfishness, apathy. They're going to regret it on a fundamental level because they will recognize it was their freewill choice to ignore God's promptings. They will also lose many rewards which God would have heaped upon them had they been obedient.

    These rewards have nothing to do with eternal life that was won at the cross, however.
     
  18. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
    Hebrews 10:26-31

    JUDE 1:3-16

    Beware!

    Jude 1
    5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
     
  19. I use to believe that once I was saved, I was always saved, but then a friend in Christ came to me and showed me some verses that showed me that osas could not be true. It was shocking to me, but since God says He cannot lie, then I must believe His word regardless of where it looks like my soul is going. These are some of the verses that God showed me thru my friend in Christ. (Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    (Psa 19:13) Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

    What doe PRESUMP'TUOUS, mean? 5. Willful and wilful means we know it is sin and we do it anyway. God uses different words to show the SAME meaning in the bible
    The GREAT TRANSGRESSION that King David is speaking of in Psalms 19 would be what? Blashpemy, right?

    (Mat 12:31) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the BLASHPEMY AGAINST the Holy Ghost shall NOT be forgiven unto men.

    (Mat 12:32) And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever SPEAKETH AGAINST the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    These verses are a perfect example of how God uses different words to explain the SAME thing.

    So if God does NOT forgive wilful/presumptuous sin, He MUST be talking about blasphemy, right? Since in Hebs 10:26 God says "there remaineth NO more sacrifice for sins" God is saying that Jesus' sacrifice is not going to pay that death penalty for this wilful sin. So if Jesus' sacrifice does NOT pay for blasphemy, wilful, or presumptuous, then who would have to pay for their wilful sin? When God showed me these verses, I had to admit that the soul that is committing that wilful sin will have to pay for their own WILFUL sin.

    That was very hard for me to have to admit, but I am not willing to call God a liar! I would be very happy to go over this topic with you if you are interested. Thank you.
     
  20. Hello moznpeg
    I use to believe like you that we could not lost our salvation, but then a friend in Christ came to me and ask me some questions and showed me verses that show that this belief is wrong.

    (Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    In this verse God tells us that Jesus' sacrifice will NOT pay for wilfu sins. The "there remaineth NO MORE SACRIFICE for sins" explains to us this fact. So if Jesus' sacrifice will NOT pay for wilful sins, who will have to pay for their wilful sins? Them, right?

    (1Ti 1:12) And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

    (1Ti 1:13) Who was before a BLASPHEMER, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I OBTAINED MERCY, BECAUSE I did it IGNORANTLY in UNBELIEF.

    God is showing us the difference between sin He WILL forgive and sin He will NOT forgive. I do not know about you but before God showed me this difference between what sin He forgives and what sin He does not forgive, I believed God forgave ALL sin. But He clearly does NOT forgive ALL sin!

    (Heb 6:4) For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

    (Heb 6:5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

    ( God is listing all these people that HAVE BEEN SAVED as examples of WHO this thing is IIMPOSSIBLE for)

    (Heb 6:6) IF THEY shall FALL AWAY, to RENEW them AGAIN unto REPENTANCE (is IMPOSSIBLE); seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    So IF a soul CANNOT receive REPENTANCE for their wilful sin, then they CANNOT ASK FOR FORGIVENESS of their wilful sin! Jesus' sacrifice was for the purpose of getting repentance and forgiveness. So if we CANNOT ASK for FORGIVENESS, we CANNOT be FORGIVEN of our WILFUL SINS!

    That is just a little of what God has shown me on this topic of osas. If you would wish to talk further, please let me know. We could talk one on one. Thank you
     

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