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Discussion in 'Bible Answers' started by Chad, May 24, 2006.

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  1. Joe, the Gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I think, however, that you are dismissing some scriptural elements in your argument. A proper understanding of the Gospel will lead one to repentance, asking for forgiveness is implicit in repentance. The thirty eighth verse of the Acts 2 is quite clear that you must repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. "relax and receive it" isn't an idea that meshes well with scripture. It sounds as though someone's viewpoints have raised an unneeded ire in you, my friend.

    We're saved by grace through faith. This faith will manifest itself in our works. Once we are saved we are to live a holy life. We're told to walk in the Spirit, we're told to pray without ceasing, we're told to study to show ourselves approved, we're told to obey every ordinance, we're told to try the spirits, we're told to stand fast and to make sure to not be entangled again with the yoke of bondage. All of these require action.

    So the sedentary Christianity you espouse is no Christianity at all. If God intended us to take a vacation after salvation, he would have raptured us right there and then. These aren't contradictions of terms, but all integral in the work of salvation. It's also worth noting that within the book of Acts, every instance of the indwelling of the Spirit of God was accompanied by tongues.
  2. Chad, not meaning to be contentious but within the context of the passages above, would it not be considered blasphemy to attribute the works of the Holy Ghost to Satan? As such, couldn't it still be done absent the physical presence of Jesus? Jesus said that blasphemies against him would be forgiven, so isn't his being on earth non-essential to commit this act and wouldn't this warning have all the more gravity now that in his physical absence, God accomplishes his purposes in the Church through his Holy Spirit?
  3. Brother Chad,

    Since you desire to be so precise, then asking for forgiveness IS NOT implicit with repentance.
    Repentance is of course a daily need but only if the Holy Spirit within convicts you, for how else are you going to know if you have just sinned? Repentance other than from the Holy Spirit is dead.

    The world’s forgiveness (other than the unpardonable sin) already happened on the cross. After you have (once) been saved, then Paul says that asking for forgiveness is like denying what Jesus did for you.

    God says that without the shedding of blood there is no forgivness.
    Jesus only died once and only shed his blood once, both for the forgives of sin.

    When the Holy Spirit convicts you, yes you repent and thank him for showing your sin and what He has done for you. But, if you literally think that you have to ask again for his forgives, then you insult Jesus by denying what He has already done for you! Again your forgives can only be accomplished through the shedding of blood, and you are essentially asking God to crucify His son again.

    Acts is all about the time of Pentecost and when God’s church began with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit into first, the Apostles and then many more.
    In Acts 2:38, Peter is preaching the “Gospel”, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. He is telling the people around him to repent of their sins obtain forgiveness and receive the Holy Spirit

    Baptism by water was a common occurrence in Peter’s day; it was a great outward expression of your belief. That may have very well happened at this time, but water is not a requirement for forgiveness; receiving God’s Grace (free gift) and being baptized in the Holy Spirit is.

    I was baptized while hunting on a deer stand. That was an act of omission and submission to Christ, He knocked and I opened the door. There was no water involved. I don’t intend to be baptized by water in the future. I am not condemning it, I’m just following Christ’s lead and so far he is telling me that there is no need for it. But what he does tell me to do openly talk about His truth.

    So, I think you have taken the “relax and receive it” way out of context and tried to analyze me when you don’t even know me. “Sedentary Christian” as you espouse, is wrong and quite offensive.

    I respectfully ask that you please take the “our” or essentially “you” out of the same context with works.
    This is not truth! This is error that often keeps individuals in the bondage that they have to keep doing something to please God. This is a foundational truth about faith, “certain of what we do not see” that the works come from Christ and not ourselves unless we should boast.

    Other than Christ being the only way, we can also agree to disagree.
    I remain your bother in Christ and I remain in peace, “relaxing” in what Jesus did for me, not what I can do but allowing Him to live His life through me and bare His fruits or “works” through me

    Faith without works is dead! God does not mean your works but His works .
    In Christ's Love,
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p>Joe</o:p>
  4. I'm not Chad, Chad is :zip: I was just asking him a question. And when the issue is salvation, you can never be too precise. When you sin, don't you ask for forgiveness??? Show me where Paul says asking for forgiveness is denying the work on the cross. I never asserted that you can re-repent. That's a one time job that manifests in a life of daily repentance- turning away from your old life. The only thing that the scripture compares to crucifying the Son of God afresh is trampling his blood underfoot by a conscious return to sin. NOT by asking God to forgive you.

    We wrong God and our brothers and other people all the time. There is nothing sinful about asking to be forgiven. Further, baptism by water was not only common (the Jews had several ritual acts of purifications that required ablutions) but it was the only way baptism could be accomplished. The word Baptise means to dye or immerse in water. To distinguish it from the other rituals the Jews had, baptism for the remission of sins was always in the name of Jesus throughout the book of Acts. Unless that deer stand had a tank of water, brother, you need to be baptized. How can Christ lead you not to be baptised but command it in his word?

    Additionally, I never analyzed you, because as you stated I don't know you. Read what I said, I analyzed your comment. It wasnt my intention to offend you; you did however post your comment in a public forum. There is no need for me to redact the "our" or "you" because they're generic. You're free to not apply them to yourself.

    Finally, the works James is speaking of aren't the works of God. If they were, there would have been no need for him to say faith without them are dead. God will never do something without completing it. So who is he putting faith in? There's no scriptural or logical way you can apply that to the work of God. I won't go back and forth with you on this, because as you stated we are free to disagree. I only suggest that re-read some scriptures, be baptised and continue in your faith.
  5. Now, as a "born again Christian", and when you sin, why ask for
    forgiveness. Why ask God to do what his son has already done on the cross?
    The sins that God forgave on the cross are for sins you have committed, and
    will commit. I don't know how else to explain what God meant when He said that no sin is forgiven without the shedding of blood. Jesus Christ shed blood one time for all sins , now and forever.

    If you think that you have to still ask for forgiveness for each sin in
    your life, and believe me there will be plenty before you die, then you are living according to the old law. And I never said that asking for forgiveness was sinful, but you may have a point, because I think it is an insult to what God did one time for all sin.

    Repeatedly asking for forgiveness can be compared to the day of atonement (old testament). Atonement was accomplished through Man and was a covering over of sin, done with the blood of bulls and goats. God says that no sin can be taken away by the blood of bulls and goats.
    Our sin was not covered by the blood of Jesus, it was "taken away" by his blood, once and for all.
    The law, or legalism says that in order to gain salvation, you ( Man) must do something like: Baptism of water and asking for forgiveness, speaking in tongues, and a all too often misunderstood 1 John 1:9.

    Water baptism is a classic misinterpretation.
    John (the Baptist) said that I baptize by water, but there comes one after me that baptize by the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that John baptizes by water but I baptize by the Holy Spirit. Baptism by water has nothing to do with with your salvation, again it is something you do (man) and if you have to do it to receive God's Grace, then it is not free and therefore not a gift and not Grace, you are back to square one with your sin problem.

    Christian , as you may be. this is simply where I believe that you are in error:
    We now receive forgiveness by Gods Grace ( Death, burial and resurrection) of his son. Grace is a gift and it is FREE, but if it were dependent on us to do something in order to gain this forgiveness then it would cost something of us and not be free. Jesus death on the cross paid in full, the sins of the world, and God said he would look at them no more!

    Respectfully and in love, I suggest that you re-read Romans and Hebrews and stop debating about what you need to do. Start living in the truth truth of what Christ has done for you already.
  6. Because we are sorry we let our flesh sin and we know flesh brings death , sickness , problems into our lives here and others

    You see , We know that if ? We walk in our Spirit , then we will not Sin, So when we sin, then we are Not feeding our Spirit and it is our fault!
    Reading the bible and doing the good things of life bless our Spirit and Others and our LORD!

    We are NOT obeying our LORD, when we Sin!
  7. :wink:Dear Brother, Spirit 1st:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />

    Please understand that I am not saying that sin doesn't matter, of course it does.
    When you say :( We know that if? We walk in our Spirit, then we will not Sin.) I hope that you are referring to the Holy Spirit and not actually "our Spirit" for it is Christ that we are in and he is in us.

    Of course, if and when we can walk perfectly in him, there is no sin, because we are absolutely under and in his presence. But, as you appropriately say (When we sin), it is because that is what we imperfect humans do best, we inherited it from Adam.

    Please don't call your sin your fault that is what Satin wants you to feel. He wants you to feel ashamed, embarrassed and convicted with what you were born with; that can keep a person in bondage.

    I recently talked to a new acquaintance, he said he was Catholic. After some casual conversation, I usually get around to talking about the Lord and I asked him when he was saved. What he said shocked me! He said:" I am not currently saved right now." I asked how you can not be saved if you profess to be a Catholic. He replied: “Oh, I still have some repenting to do!"
    We still need to talk some more but can you see how his feelings of not being forgiven has led to a bondage over sin?

    You see, this happens across the world; many people wake everyday and confuse repentance with forgiveness. They are cunningly deceived by Satin that they have to do something to please God and be forgiven. And they soon see that they are not capable of perfecting this repentance/ forgiveness process and they end up in a vicious cycle of highs and lows that eventually keeps them in the bondage of unworthiness. What about the sins that you don't know you committed at any given time, how do you get forgiveness for those times? Sin is sin to God; all sin is an abomination to the perfect one! Do you repent and ask forgiveness for the sins of negativity or are you NEVER negative?

    Look, just let the Holy Spirit lives in and through you. When your sin is revealed to you (by him/not by you) by all means repent and thank him for taking care of it at the cross. Now work on that sin and try your best not to do it again, but don't beat yourself up about it or be in bondage to it. Please read and re-read Romans 7: 7-25 thru Romans 8:1 and see how Paul eventually manages his struggle with sin.

    Christ did not come down from heaven so much to get you out of hell and in to heaven, He came down from heaven to get inside you and give you life and give it more abundantly.

    The problem of Man is not that he is a sinner in need of forgiveness; his greater problem is that he is dead and need of life.

    Love, not spikes held Jesus to the cross. In Christ you don't get forgiveness, you are forgiven. Live it and believe it and you will walk in the grace and faith that God intended for you.

    In His Love,:wink:

  8. Spirit 1st:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" />

    With your attachment of Eph 4:24, I am not sure what you are trying to say here but, I hope you are not thinking about this being your or our righteousness and holiness.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    God does call us holly, righteous and blameless BUT, he is talking about Christ's holiness and righteousness that he sees in us and not of our own doing.
    Not until we are perfected in God's presence, will we be truly holly and righteous, until then, it is all about him who lives in us.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Again it is all about God's Grace (free gift) and while we are here on earth, there is nothing that we can do but believe and depend solely and completely in him who lives in us.

    I hope this helps my brother,
    <o:p> </o:p>​
  9. No I am Not talking about the HOLY SPIRIT!
    We have a perfect clean Spirit at salvation! That New Creature GOD makes us , Has the Mind and nature of Christ JESUS!
    It has No flaws ,Not one!
    It cannot sin , nor would it!
    it is kept by the Holy Ghost forever more!
    Sin is what separated us from GOD. Now we are not separated ever again!

    If we live though our New Spirit? We will Never sin or do anything our LORD does not want us too! We will Hear the Holy Ghost and Follow HIM as our LORD DID!

    This scripture explains why we do not reveal the fruits of our Spirit has we live!
    We also have the first fruits of The Holy Ghost at Salvation!

    1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

    Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,

    Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son,

    Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,

    This is our Spirit once Born -Again!

    Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: \\

    1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

    Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

    2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

    Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

    1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

    GOD makes each of His Children After the pattern JESUS CHRIST!

    1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
    We are equal to those in heaven already !

    Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

    Now these Scriptures are only to our Spirit!
    the flesh we dwell in is VERY DIFFERENT!

    Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    Pray and ask the Spirit of truth to reveal to you if these scriptures are Truth and if they are to Our Spirit ,once Born of God !

    1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
    Our Spirit CANNOT be Corruptied!
    We are Born of a Perfect SEED !

    Besides that?
    We are Kept perfect by the HOLY GHOST!

    2Ti 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
    The Only true Priests on the earth today is GODS CHILDREN!

    1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

    Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    See once we have a clean Spirit? Then the Holy Ghost can dwell with in us!

    Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

    Of curse when Boen -Again - born of God- Born from above- Born of our spirit!
    We are a new birth and babies at that Time!
    We feed on the living words of god!
    We Need to read the bible to feed our Spirit!

    1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

    Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

    Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

    1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

    1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

    1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
  10. Peace and love my friend!
  11. Hi Chad,
    I saw a documentary once made by a young man who said he was raised Christian and lost his faith after high school. He quoted one of his main problems with Christianity and the Bible being this very issue, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. At the time I wondered, "what would i say to someone struggling who posed this question to me?" Now, I have a good, biblically based answer. Thanks brother.
  12. May thanks Saul! This is the clearest answer yet I have seen! I am sure many people wonder about this sin. I have had problems with satan and/or his imps putting blasphemous thoughts in my mind. I go for counseling at a ministry and the lady says just not to take ownership of them. She says satan wants to get us upset, tells us we have committed the unpardonable sin and are going to hell. She says the Lord told her not to let him see you cry. satan (no capital "s" here!) gave me 2 awful dreams where i was physically abusing my dear, sweet departed mother. The lady says to reject them in the name of Jesus. This spiritual journey/battle is something else but with the Lord's help and counseling I am getting stronger every day! God bless you.
  13. Mat_12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    Read the Scripture ! It says World to COME ! meaning we are In the world to Come ! It just appears too me we lose some rewards ?

    He took All our sins not just most 1 He wipes away our tears ! Meaning we do not remember the mistakes or sins !

    I ASK the LORD ONCE ! I said LORd How is it when our flesh dies and all those thoughts in the flesh mind are gone1 what does the Spirits mind take with it ? He said Only those thoughts of pure LOVE ! that why we remember our DADS and MOMS , because we really LOVED THEM !
    That How He wipes away our tears ! We only get judged of our works , so it the rewards ! We judge the World and the fallen Angels 1

    Jas_1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
    Jas_2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

    Rev_21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
    1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
    We All who are Born of GOD have Great power Now ! We All have GOD power within Us ! THE HOLY GHOST!

    God made each of Us His eternal Priests ! He given us all POWER over this world ! We just do not know Our Place in HIS KINGDOM , which we are in Now and Forever More !
  14. One aspect of blasphemy against the holy spirit which often gets over looked is that at it's core it means 'proving untrue to the holy spirit'. Anything we do which proves we are feigning obedience to the holy spirit is blasphemy against it.

    That lays a serious responsibility on us especially where we may be in positions where we have to make judgments concerning others. We had better care that our judgments are true, else we sow God's wrath to ourselves.

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