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Blasphemy Of The Unbeliever

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Active

RJ

Matt. 12:22-32 says, "Then there was brought to Him a demon-possessed man who was blind and dumb, and He healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. 23And all the multitudes were amazed, and began to say, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?" 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebub the ruler of the demons." 25And knowing their thoughts He said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself shall not stand. 26"And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? 27"And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? Consequently they shall be your judges. 28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29"Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. 31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."

There are other opinions what this blasphemy may have meant at the time but the following answer is good as any today:
Can a true believer blasphemy the Holy Spirit?
No. A believer cannot commit the unforgivable sin. How can someone who has been born again (John 3:7), made a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17), and received eternal life (John 10:27-28) actually commit the unforgivable sin? He cannot. Jesus Himself said that we have eternal life, not conditional life: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:27-28). Besides, it says in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that the Christian is a new creation in Christ. We are different--no longer slaves to the old nature (Romans 6:14). We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

Simple put, "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" is the same as a non-beleiver, one who has rejected or shows irreverence to the power of the Holy Spirit and is unsaved!
 
Loyal
I wonder if it's possible for a believer to lie to the Holy Spirit? ( Acts 5:3-4; )
Is it possible to lie to someone you don't believe exists?
 
Active

RJ

I wonder if it's possible for a believer to lie to the Holy Spirit? ( Acts 5:3-4; )
Is it possible to lie to someone you don't believe exists?
Lie to yourself or another human, yes! But, lie and hide something from the Holy Spirit is absurd!
 
Member
I look at it this way. I submit to you the parable of the Prodigal Son. Did this son not sin and not blaspheme his father and how did he do this? He did so because he having lived in his father's house and was raised with his father's expectations. Blaspheme, is to me, disrespect of the highest order. It seems sensible to me that there needs to be some knowledge of that which is disrespected to disrespect it. If not, they are only throwing words at a concept within the minds of others. It seems foolish to disregard that which you don't understand but people have done that throughout history, many to their own demise, but is foolishness intentional?

I don't think blaspheme can be accomplished by those who see nothing in the first place, but I do know that to lie to someone who knows you only insults the person being lied to and reveals your disdain for their importance. This is a rejection in my opinion of that person's ability to guide and correct. If you don't accept God as your guide and corrector what are you doing believing in him? My answer is you don't. You just want to not live wit guilt.
 
Active

RJ

I look at it this way. I submit to you the parable of the Prodigal Son. Did this son not sin and not blaspheme his father and how did he do this? He did so because he having lived in his father's house and was raised with his father's expectations. Blaspheme, is to me, disrespect of the highest order. It seems sensible to me that there needs to be some knowledge of that which is disrespected to disrespect it. If not, they are only throwing words at a concept within the minds of others. It seems foolish to disregard that which you don't understand but people have done that throughout history, many to their own demise, but is foolishness intentional?
 
Active

RJ

I don't think blaspheme can be accomplished by those who see nothing in the first place, but I do know that to lie to someone who knows you only insults the person being lied to and reveals your disdain for their importance. This is a rejection in my opinion of that person's ability to guide and correct. If you don't accept God as your guide and corrector what are you doing believing in him? My answer is you don't. You just want to not live wit guilt.
I am not sure what your point is. Being a unbeliever for any reason is a spiritual death sentence; there certainly is no excuse for any reason, including ignornace. Finall rejection of God for all reasons is " Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".[/QUOTE]
 
Member
Blaspheme has nothing to do with believing. It has to do with denunciation. It has to do with ridiculing something of divine proportions. Simple non belief can be done without disrespecting another belief. It is the difference between saying you are not my father and saying wither you are or not my father you are defecation.

Ignorance of God is not disbelief in any way, since you have to have knowledge of something to have a view about it.
 
Active

RJ

I respect your right to believe what you wish? I hope you won't mind answering a few questions for me to better understand your position:
1. Please tell me what you think the " Unforgivable sin" is?
2.O.K., your prefer to compare blaspheme with denunciation. So my question is: a person who is a non-believer thus far, rejects God, is he not denunciating God's saving grace?
 
Member
I can't be positive, since there are so may versions of it but I would submit that it is denying or disrespecting God after having knowledge of his existence. Why do you think that The Bible states to not associate with those who have turned their eyes away from God?
 
Active

RJ

I can't be positive, since there are so may versions of it but I would submit that it is denying God after having knowledge of his existence.
What is the result of this denying God?
What about the other question?: O.K., your prefer to compare blaspheme with denunciation. So my question is: a person who is a non-believer thus far, rejects God, is he not denunciating God's saving grace?
 
Member
To deny something don't you have to have knowledge of that person. That was the entire idea behind my take on things. Does an infant deny god? I don't think I prefer to use anything other than that which I can find definitions for, since I'm as fallible as the next person. I googled blaspheme and got the following definitions

Blaspheme | Define Blaspheme at Dictionary.com

To this I can only say if they do not know that this is God or that this is the God of another then they by definition have no knowledge of his power and glory. I think the difficulty we are having is one of we haven't defined unbeliever. To me an unbeliever is someone without knowledge. A non believer, to me is one who has knowledge but rejects it as false..
 
Active

RJ

To deny something don't you have to have knowledge of that person. That was the entire idea behind my take on things. Does an infant deny god? I don't think I prefer to use anything other than that which I can find definitions for, since I'm as fallible as the next person. I googled blaspheme and got the following definitions

Blaspheme | Define Blaspheme at Dictionary.com

To this I can only say if they do not know that this is God or that this is the God of another then they by definition have no knowledge of his power and glory. I think the difficulty we are having is one of we haven't defined unbeliever. To me an unbeliever is someone without knowledge. A non believer, to me is one who has knowledge but rejects it as false..
Lets go to chat so we can really carry on a conversation.....see you there now?
 
Active
Blaspheme, is to me, disrespect of the highest order. It seems sensible to me that there needs to be some knowledge of that which is disrespected to disrespect it. If not, they are only throwing words at a concept within the minds of others. It seems foolish to disregard that which you don't understand but people have done that throughout history, many to their own demise, but is foolishness intentional?

I don't think blaspheme can be accomplished by those who see nothing in the first place, but I do know that to lie to someone who knows you only insults the person being lied to and reveals your disdain for their importance. This is a rejection in my opinion of that person's ability to guide and correct. If you don't accept God as your guide and corrector what are you doing believing in him? My answer is you don't. You just want to not live wit guilt.
I can sort of see what you are saying. I agree to a certain extent. I think outright blasphemy requires a certain degree of knowledge of what someone is blaspheming. Many people have a knowledge of God, yet still hate him utterly. Demon's know who God is, and they recognize Jesus when he shows up, even when veiled in the form of human flesh. Yet, knowing who God is, and much about him, they still hate him. Those who know nothing about him don't hate him. Having some degree of knowledge of God is required to hate him.

I don't hate the aliens on planet Nibiru who are devising all manner of evil against me. I don't hate them because they don't exist (as far as I'm concerned at least). For me to hate them, would be me acknowledging that I believe they exist. I don't believe they exist.

Travis
 
Member
I read somewhere that the two greatest days in a persons life is the day they are born and they day they find out why they were placed on this Earth. I believe that we were placed here to be Christian and to spread the word of God to every corner of the planet. This lack of knowledge is ultimately our fault for not only talking the talk of Christianity but also walking the walk of it, as well. Ignorance is only effective if left untreated, but those who are determined to remain so reject illumination and every benefit thereof.

Once the message has been delivered we can only hope that it bears fruit. Those who despise us do so not out of what we do, but what others say we do. This is a wicked world that delights in wickedness. It is not ours to punish or even judge, but that is the accusations used against us. We are messengers fore our messages come from Christ. We are ambassadors fore the world looks at us to see if we act accordingly to what we preach and we are servants because of our faith.
 
Active

RJ

I started this thread with a single minded premise:
To be a true beleiver is to be a Christian and the true mark of a Christian is to have recieved the Holy Spirit inside you.
The true Christian can not Blaspheme the Holy Spirit because he lives inside you.

If you do not believe, for ANY reason, you do not have the Holy Spirit in you and you are not a Christian. Anyone who does not believe in Jesus work on the cross and has , so far, rejected God's saving grace, this person is not saved and has therefore has committed the act of "Blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
 
Active

RJ

I started this thread with a single minded premise:
To be a true beleiver is to be a Christian and the true mark of a Christian is to have recieved the Holy Spirit inside you.
The true Christian can not Blaspheme the Holy Spirit because he lives inside you.

If you do not believe, for ANY reason, you do not have the Holy Spirit in you and you are not a Christian. Anyone who does not believe in Jesus work on the cross and has , so far, rejected God's saving grace, this person is not saved and has therefore has committed the act of "Blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
I guess, for those who take it to the ninth degree and ready to challenge on any aspect of what they consider is a unjust and, though I feel that some things about God should be understood by faith, there is a caveat:
God is a just God for which we have no way of fully understanding. God is the final judge because he is a just God. So, when I say "for any reason", I am leaving those intangibles up to him to handle. These intangibles are ( not all inclusive) Babies, Children, Mentally impared, people who have had no chance of knowing or hearing about God at no fault of their own and , I am sure there ar other examples.

God, in the end, will separate the believer from the ones who do not beleive and will be just in his judgement. His plan is perfect and only he has the perfect power to make this judgement.
 
Member
I live by the premise that only one person who walked the Earth can define who is Christian and who is not. I don't follow anyone's interpretation of the Bible because I truly believe that no man can fully understand what is there. I've read it and still find something new that I've missed and feel like a fool every time I put it down

I also don't use the term born again or saved since I know how fallible I am and know that no matter how much I try I can not be perfect in any way shape or form. I have my faults and my demons. I have my fears and doubts and know that I may falter if I think I've reached the front door of Christ.

I remember most of all the says that Christ gave us. I believe these little sound bites that so many people read over and forget are stepping stones to giude my life with. One, I have already posted, which is Pay Caesars things to Caesar. The other fits in very well with my vision of where I am. That Is Faith without works is dead.

That little statement has kept me up many nights going over the things I have done . The works, I take as the diligence we pursue in living our lives under Christ. I have no idea when, where or even if I will ever meet that threshold of being a Christian in the eyes of Christ. I've heard people say that excepting him as my savior is all that is needed, but if that is so, then what of the works.

Jesus set down a parable about a master on the eve of taking a long journey gave coins to several servants and while he was away all but one multiplied those coins and were rewarded for their diligence. One did not and said that he feared loosing the coins and buried them in the ground. He dug them up and gave them back to the master, which chastised him for being slothful. I take that as that only Christ knows for sure if anyone has done enough to enter his realm and we should not presume to know wither we have reached that platue. Therefore I don't consider himself as anything more than a follower of Christ. I am not saved, since Christ has not told me I am and I am not born again for the same reason. But this is just me saying what I believe.
 
Active

RJ

I live by the premise that only one person who walked the Earth can define who is Christian and who is not. I don't follow anyone's interpretation of the Bible because I truly believe that no man can fully understand what is there. I've read it and still find something new that I've missed and feel like a fool every time I put it down
I have agreed with that, only God knows for sure!
I also don't use the term born again or saved since I know how fallible I am and know that no matter how much I try I can not be perfect in any way shape or form. I have my faults and my demons. I have my fears and doubts and know that I may falter if I think I've reached the front door of Christ.
Well, God uses the terms "Born Again" and "Saved"; you can too with assurance that he doesn't expect perfection unless none of us could ever be saved. Paul said it best in Romans 8:1
I remember most of all the says that Christ gave us. I believe these little sound bites that so many people read over and forget are stepping stones to giude my life with. One, I have already posted, which is Pay Caesars things to Caesar. The other fits in very well with my vision of where I am. That Is Faith without works is dead.
If you are saying that you must have your works or your faith is dead is wrong! Without works of the Holy Spirit inside and through you is a sign that your faith is dead. If you do not have these works of the Holy Spirit through you, you haven't been saved yet.
That little statement has kept me up many nights going over the things I have done . The works, I take as the diligence we pursue in living our lives under Christ. I have no idea when, where or even if I will ever meet that threshold of being a Christian in the eyes of Christ. I've heard people say that excepting him as my savior is all that is needed, but if that is so, then what of the works.
Again, not your works but his works through you!
Jesus set down a parable about a master on the eve of taking a long journey gave coins to several servants and while he was away all but one multiplied those coins and were rewarded for their diligence. One did not and said that he feared loosing the coins and buried them in the ground. He dug them up and gave them back to the master, which chastised him for being slothful. I take that as that only Christ knows for sure if anyone has done enough to enter his realm and we should not presume to know wither we have reached that platue. Therefore I don't consider himself as anything more than a follower of Christ. I am not saved, since Christ has not told me I am and I am not born again for the same reason. But this is just me saying what I believe.
Ephesians 2:8-9...If you truly have acceptded his free gift, you are SAVED!
Acts 16:31... If you believe you are SAVED!... He doessn't give any other requirements, do you believe?
I mean this as no offense but you said it: " " I am not saved because Christ has not told me that I am"....I know I am saved, maybe you are not?
Romans 8:12-17 The Holy Spirit in you bares witness that you are saved!
 
Member
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. ( KJV )

What does the word "mortify" mean?
What would "living after the flesh" be?
What are the "deeds of the body"?


Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

What does "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" mean exactly?
 

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