Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Bible Questions

FoalMom

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
5
If the bible was breathed by God, why is there more nonsense (ie stoning disobedient kids, women cannot teach a man, slavery) than there is brilliance (fixing disobedient kids, respecting the wisdom of women, accepting responsibility for your own stuff)? And how do you decide which nonsense to ignore and which brilliance to follow. Does it boil down to how you "feel" about a particular verse?
 
It has nothing to do with how you feel about it nor is there any nonsense in the bible.
Those who do not enter into the Grace of God will find themselves judged under the Law and the sentence is always the same- death.
We live in a day were one never need live under the Law but is free to know God as Father through Jesus Christ. Judgment belongs to Him so let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
 
If the bible was breathed by God, why is there more nonsense (ie stoning disobedient kids, women cannot teach a man, slavery) than there is brilliance (fixing disobedient kids, respecting the wisdom of women, accepting responsibility for your own stuff)? And how do you decide which nonsense to ignore and which brilliance to follow. Does it boil down to how you "feel" about a particular verse?

First off, I'd question your assertion that there is more nonsense than brilliance. Having said that, there are teachings in the Bible that I find very difficult to accept, and some that are downright unacceptable today - stoning disobedient children for example. And given that it is there, we have to deal with it.

There is a whole heap of scholarship and varying views about what in the Bible is culturally bound, what were instructions for a single circumstance, and what is divinely binding as God's will for all time.

My benchmark is the person of Jesus Christ. He is God made man, and is the most complete picture of God that we have.

So, where there seems to be a variety of views in the Bible about an issue - Paul forbids women to take a position of authority in one letter and send greetings to prominent women in the church in another - I test each against Jesus' words and actions.

In the case of the role of women, Jesus clearly showed women great respect, and encouraged women to break out of the servile roles that society had ordained for them.

Luke 10:38
As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"

"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."​

That hasn't answered your question in full, I know. But then it was a pretty sweeping question.
 
First off, I'd question your assertion that there is more nonsense than brilliance. Having said that, there are teachings in the Bible that I find very difficult to accept, and some that are downright unacceptable today - stoning disobedient children for example. And given that it is there, we have to deal with it.

There is a whole heap of scholarship and varying views about what in the Bible is culturally bound, what were instructions for a single circumstance, and what is divinely binding as God's will for all time.

My benchmark is the person of Jesus Christ. He is God made man, and is the most complete picture of God that we have.

So, where there seems to be a variety of views in the Bible about an issue - Paul forbids women to take a position of authority in one letter and send greetings to prominent women in the church in another - I test each against Jesus' words and actions.

In the case of the role of women, Jesus clearly showed women great respect, and encouraged women to break out of the servile roles that society had ordained for them.
Luke 10:38
As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"

"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."
That hasn't answered your question in full, I know. But then it was a pretty sweeping question.

Let us not forget that a woman, was the first to carry the gospel, the first to deliver the gospel, and the first to proclaim the Risen Christ.

If children were still being stoned for disobedience, there would be children with a lot more respect for their parents. :wink:
If God made honoring your parents a commandment, and we are the children of God, we should have something click inside of us as to how important that relationship is. Proverbs teaches that if you do not correct your child, (spare the rod, spoil the child) they will become a shame to you, and well, look around, undisciplined children rule the world and grow up to be self centered self indulgent disrespectful people. Even more so without them being taught to put God first.

As strange as some of the things seem in the bible, you can always find something about it to work to good in your life.
 
Bible nonsense

If the bible was breathed by God, why is there more nonsense (ie stoning disobedient kids, women cannot teach a man, slavery) than there is brilliance (fixing disobedient kids, respecting the wisdom of women, accepting responsibility for your own stuff)? And how do you decide which nonsense to ignore and which brilliance to follow. Does it boil down to how you "feel" about a particular verse?

My first concern is where you are coming from in seeing the negative before the positive in the Bible, Foal Mom. I, like most of us here, owe my salvation to my faith in God's word and without it I would have been lost for all eternity. That fact alone far outweighs everything else I don't understand in the Bible.



When reading the Bible you must consider the context within which it was written. Language and culture for instance. And just as we have seen dramatic changes in these things in the western world, so to, they have changed in the land where our Bible originated. Don't forget, there was 400 years between the old and new testaments. Quite a time for any culture to develop into its present state.


The old testament or old Covenant God we read about in the Bible is one of observing the Law, which as well as the ten commandments He handed down to Moses, also includes the first five books of the Bible, which the Jews call their Torah.


When God's son Jesus Christ ushered in the new covenant as we can read in the new testament, He came to fulfil the law (Matthew 5:17) In other words, He came to observe it completely, because God knew we couldn't, and therefore He was able to be our atoning sacrifice. Jesus was sinless.

The new testament or covenant is all about 'Grace'. In (Matthew 5:38) Jesus spells out the changes in the new covenant.


'You have heard it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other.'

So, there aren't contradictions in the Bible. Only a shift from one covenant to another. A better one (Hebrews 8:6).


I am saddened, even ashamed, to read that some believe a child should still be stoned or caned for their wrong doing. When a child is disobedient there are a number of factors that must be considered. Parental responsibility is at the top of my list. In old testament times and within the Hebrew culture 'Family' always came first and the parents made it their responsibility to to raise their children in the ways of God. The family home is the first place where children learn how they should behave. 'Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it' (Proverbs 22:6). And as we know, in the days we live in, far too many parents evade their responsibilty to their children. For sure, the threat of a spanking should be enough to disuade a child from being naughty, however, I feel much more is achieved if the parents sit down with their children and discuss any issues with them. There are so many factors in our material, wealth, and celebrity centred world today than there ever was in Biblical times. Who would be a parent these days!

As for women preachers or teachers, one of the wisest teachers I have heard is Joyce Meyer. The apostle Paul wrote 'There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ' (Galatians 3:28).


My final word on this is, dare we the created question how our Creator God chooses to do things? We do well to remember that God's ways are much higher than ours (Isaiah 55:9).
 
Last edited:
If the bible was breathed by God, why is there more nonsense (ie stoning disobedient kids, women cannot teach a man, slavery) than there is brilliance (fixing disobedient kids, respecting the wisdom of women, accepting responsibility for your own stuff)? And how do you decide which nonsense to ignore and which brilliance to follow. Does it boil down to how you "feel" about a particular verse?

There is no "nonsense" in the Bible, past human sin - which you are accountable for too just like the characters in the Bible.

I changed this thread's absurd title from "Bible nonsense" to Bible Questions. Respect the Bible. If you disagree, gives you no right to call things nonsense. That's not respectful of GOD nor others' beliefs in the Bible.
 
I certainly did not mean to offend anyone. Ever. I would like to apologize if I hurt any person.

That being said, it causes me great frustration when the bible asks me to stone children and kill people that work on Sunday (ack...that's me.) It makes no sense to me.

Why are there so many different interpretations of things. Certain religions obey certain laws. Shouldn't there be some continuity to it? Which laws should I obey?

Again, I mean no disrespect by questioning things. I want to understand it, that is why I ask.
 
I certainly did not mean to offend anyone. Ever. I would like to apologize if I hurt any person.

That being said, it causes me great frustration when the bible asks me to stone children and kill people that work on Sunday (ack...that's me.) It makes no sense to me.

Why are there so many different interpretations of things. Certain religions obey certain laws. Shouldn't there be some continuity to it? Which laws should I obey?

Again, I mean no disrespect by questioning things. I want to understand it, that is why I ask.

FoalMom, I hate to see you badgered for questioning some things in the bible, I see that you are trying to seek the face of the Lord, and regardless of what anyone says to you, remember; the Lord understands what questions you have in your heart.

Reading some of the Old Testament before understanding the personality of Christ does seem rather harsh at times. I would suggest you read the New Testament first, if you have a red letter edition, pay close attention to what Jesus had to say. Sometimes Big Christians forget not to trip babies when they are learning to crawl and toddle.

The Lord understands every situation you are in, so put your hope in the living God, and He will direct you into all truth. Hang in there girl.
 
Last edited:
Bible Question

Dear Foal Mom, Please be assured you have not offended me in any way whatsoever. I can see from your post that you are seeking to understand what you are reading, and that's a good thing to be encouraged.

It appears to me from your repeated confusion that you are stuck in the old testament. Re-read my post that explains why there are different regulations between the old and new covenants.

Stop worrying about observing the laws that you read in the old testament. Read through the apostle Paul's letter to the Galatians and you will, with prayer, gain a better understanding of where you stand as a child of God. Key thought: We are no longer under the Law but under Grace.

The only two commandments you need concern yourself about are 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. And to love your neighbour as yourself.' (Matthew 27:37).

With all due respect and Christian love, FoalMom, I would recommend you talk things over with a Pastor of the church you attend. I am sure he will clarify matters for you.
 
I think my hangup is more on the "God-breathed" part. The God that I know is love, totally and completely. I think that He would be appalled at the thought of killing/stoning anyone. So, therefore, either a.) the bible could not be "God-breathed" or b.) I have a twisted view of God. Is He that cruel?

The tenor of the bible does not match the personalilty of God as I know him.
 
New Covenant

The entire Bible is worthy of study but, I agree with Servat Mike and for a better understanding of the gospel, it is most important for you to understand, concentrate on the New Testament. As you need more about Jesus Study Mathew, Mark, Luke and John and where Acts is regarded more of a historical document, I would concentrat on Romans and beyond.
I love the Old Testament's richnest and amazing stories about God and His interaction with Man but, do not expect all of it to be pertinent to your way of living today. Remember Jesus said give unto Cesar what belongs to Cesar and give unto God what is God.Things were different in the ancient days. Today that means that you obey the current laws of the secular society. Eventhough I felt like stoneing my kids couple of times that wasn't permissable by law.
Here is a classic example of Gods Old Testament Covenants (law) and His New Testament Covenant (grace); Before Jesus death and His ushering in of the New Covenant: Jesus said, " Forgive your neighbor or God can't forgive you (a requirement or law, something to be done) but, after His death that change to: " Love your neighbor as your God loves you (grace, nothing to do, just live it).
Find where St. Paul talks about the gospel that he preached: the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is what you need to study, learn what all that means and live accordingly!
God Bless!
 
So, where there seems to be a variety of views in the Bible about an issue - Paul forbids women to take a position of authority in one letter and send greetings to prominent women in the church in another - I test each against Jesus' words and actions.

I don't believe that Paul's command is that all women should keep silent in all churches always. I believe that he gave the command to the Corinthian church so that orderly worship would replace the chaos in their worship described in 1 Cor 14:26-33. Note that verse 33 specifies that God is not a God of disorder.

Also, I think the fact that Paul uses the plural churches in verse 33 indicates that this was a circular letter to be read in other churches in the Aegean Sea area only, churches that had similar cultural backgrounds and issues. Paul's headquarters, where he wrote First Corinthians, was Ephesus, the chief city of the Roman province of Asia (which included Corinth).

SLE
 
I agree, for the most part, though I was thinking more of 1 Timothy 2:11-12

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.​

But to develop this much further might derail this thread, which I think is developing on an interesting line.

My earlier point was to suggest a rule of thumb: if you are confused, look to Jesus.

I think it is possible to untangle the various teachings in the Bible – given to different people in different situations – and to bring them into harmony. But that often requires quite a bit of background research and fairly sophisticated approach to reading.

For those that haven't the opportunity to do that, or are coming across an issue for the first time, I would say start your explorations with the life of Jesus.

Also the gospels give us a good starting place for evaluating our priorities. How much attention does Jesus give to: the dignity of the poor, challenging hypocrisy, the creation/science debate, preaching mercy, osas/nosas, restoring relationships...?
 
Last edited:
Wow a cool question

If the bible was breathed by God, why is there more nonsense (ie stoning disobedient kids, women cannot teach a man, slavery) than there is brilliance (fixing disobedient kids, respecting the wisdom of women, accepting responsibility for your own stuff)? And how do you decide which nonsense to ignore and which brilliance to follow. Does it boil down to how you "feel" about a particular verse?

Do you think theses 4 things apply to God? If I may the answer is yes.
1. Justice, 2. Wisdom, 3. Love, 4. Power (initials of J.W.L.P.)


God is just, that's why he will punish the ungodly who ignore their conscious and truth that they have offended God.
God is just, that's why he sent his Son Jesus to die on our behalf for us to have a sin bearer to clean our conscious as well.
God is wise, This plan of salvation is all of him nothing of us.
God is wise, A simple plan of salvation not of man's wisdom but in his power.
God is love. He left heaven to save us, God the Son his name Jesus.
God is love, not that we love him but that he loves us
God's Power, When we allow him he will show us
God's power, When we call on Jesus as Lord for Gods mercy in repentance, because we have offended God, he will show us the power of his grace through his Spirit by sealing us.

all Scripture is breathed by God, the bible. And when we understand God's view, not ours, everything becomes crystal clear more and more every day when we learn to walk with him.

The overall question borders on why and why not certain things God does allows and allows not. We at times cannot understand his ways. The reason I wrote the reply this way is if we dont believe God is Just, wise, love and power then we will not understand why certain things are from God's point of view.
 
Last edited:
I'm a writer so I see things in pictures.

I see God as my Heavenly Father. Every parent who loves their child will discipline that child when they do wrong. If God, does not discipline his children, but let's them do whatever they want, is that truly love?

I would say no.

Also, if God is truly holy and can not be present where sin abounds, does that mean we who are full of sin can be in God's presence?

Again I say no.

God is both Just and Love. Justice for our sin is death. God out of love sent His Son Jesus to die for all once.

If God was not love, I think we would all be either dead or on our way to hell.

I hope what I have said helps some.

God sees your heart, FoalMom. He sees intent and knows what will come to be. Put your Trust in Him. He will never let you down.
 
Hello Foalmom,

When the Mosaic Law covenant was given to the nation of Israel, God commanded that any son who proved to be "stubborn and rebellious, he not listening to the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and they have corrected him but he will not listen to them, his father and his mother must also take hold of him and bring him out to the older men of his city and to the gate of his place, and they must say to the older men of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he is not listening to our voice, being a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of his city must pelt him with stones, and he must die. So you must clear away what is bad from your midst, and all Israel will hear and indeed become afraid."(Deut 21:18-21)

If an occasion arose where a son became absolutely rebellious and incorrigible after repeated warnings and the necessary discipline, a still sterner measure was taken. The son was brought before the older men of the city, and after testimony from the parents that he was an irreformable offender, the delinquent suffered capital punishment by stoning. Such arrangement evidently had reference to a son beyond the age of what is usually considered a young child, for this one the Scriptures describe as “a glutton and a drunkard.” (Deut 21:20)

One striking his father or mother, or calling down evil upon his parents, was put to death. The reason for such strong measures was that the nation might clear away what was bad from their midst and so that “all Israel [would] hear and indeed become afraid.” Therefore, any tendency in the nation toward juvenile delinquency or disrespect of parental authority would be greatly retarded by the punishment inflicted upon such offenders.(Ex 21:15, 17; Matt 15:4; Mark 7:10)

Also under the Mosaic Law, the nation of Israel were to observe a weekly sabbath, whereby no work was to be done. The desisting from all labor and observing other God-given Sabbath requirements not only gave rest to the body but, more important, provided opportunity for the individual to demonstrate his faith and obedience through Sabbath observance. It gave parents the opportunity to inculcate God’s laws and commandments in the minds and hearts of their children. (Deut 6:4-9)

Christians today are not under the sabbath arrangement, for only upon the Israelites were it enjoined. At Exodus 31:15-17, God told the Israelites: "As for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘Especially my sabbaths you are to keep, for it is a sign between me and you during your generations that you may know that I Jehovah am sanctifying you....Six days may work be done, but on the seventh day is a sabbath of complete rest. It is something holy to Jehovah. Anyone doing work on the sabbath day will positively be put to death. And the sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite."

Some churches have taught that Sunday is the "Lord's day". This is not the case, for Revelation 1:10 speaks of the "Lord's day", which began with the crowning of Jesus as heavenly King. Even after Jesus executes judgment on Satan’s world, the Lord’s day continues, with the restoration of Paradise and the perfecting of mankind, until Jesus finally “hands over the kingdom to his God and Father.”(1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Revelation 6:1, 2) Therefore, there is no law from God saying that one cannot work on Sunday.
 
Last edited:
I agree with most of what is said above, but aren't we slipping around the side of the question, rather than tackling it head on.

Imagine that after a church meeting a close friends of yours confide in you that they have reached the end of their tether with their son. He's a drunkard, glutton, selfish, dishonest and lazy.

Having brought him before the pastor and elders of the church they have decided, in line with the teachings of the Bible, to publicly stone him to death.

The stoning will take place next week and you are invited along to come along and join in with throwing the rocks.

Would you feel

  • honoured to be invited
  • a little concerned
  • horrified that they could contemplate such a barbaric thing

Most of us would consider this not simply as laws that are no longer binding, such as the food laws, but as something that is morally wrong.

We sometimes have honour killings in the UK (they are more often to do with marriage issues than disobedience) and the whole nation is appalled. But it is in the Bible. I find that difficult.
 
If the bible was breathed by God, why is there more nonsense (ie stoning disobedient kids, women cannot teach a man, slavery) than there is brilliance (fixing disobedient kids, respecting the wisdom of women, accepting responsibility for your own stuff)? And how do you decide which nonsense to ignore and which brilliance to follow. Does it boil down to how you "feel" about a particular verse?

Allow HolySpirit to lead and teach you. The flesh is hostile towards God and it is not the targeted recipient of God's plan of reconciliation.
 
I agree with most of what is said above, but aren't we slipping around the side of the question, rather than tackling it head on.

Imagine that after a church meeting a close friends of yours confide in you that they have reached the end of their tether with their son. He's a drunkard, glutton, selfish, dishonest and lazy.

Having brought him before the pastor and elders of the church they have decided, in line with the teachings of the Bible, to publicly stone him to death.

The stoning will take place next week and you are invited along to come along and join in with throwing the rocks.

Would you feel

  • honoured to be invited
  • a little concerned
  • horrified that they could contemplate such a barbaric thing

Most of us would consider this not simply as laws that are no longer binding, such as the food laws, but as something that is morally wrong.

We sometimes have honour killings in the UK (they are more often to do with marriage issues than disobedience) and the whole nation is appalled. But it is in the Bible. I find that difficult.

That should never happen as doing that would condemn the folks carrying out. Having placed themselves under the Law they would be responsible for the whole Law.
Thank God for the new covenant we have in Christ.
The Law demonstrated not only man's weakness and inability but also the harshness of living without the grace of God.
All the honor killings we have had (to my knowledge) in the USA are lost Muslim souls. They do not have Christ nor are they born again and therefore they live (sadly) under the judgment of the Law.
 
I agree with most of what is said above, but aren't we slipping around the side of the question, rather than tackling it head on.

Imagine that after a church meeting a close friends of yours confide in you that they have reached the end of their tether with their son. He's a drunkard, glutton, selfish, dishonest and lazy.

Having brought him before the pastor and elders of the church they have decided, in line with the teachings of the Bible, to publicly stone him to death.

The stoning will take place next week and you are invited along to come along and join in with throwing the rocks.

Would you feel

  • honoured to be invited
  • a little concerned
  • horrified that they could contemplate such a barbaric thing

Most of us would consider this not simply as laws that are no longer binding, such as the food laws, but as something that is morally wrong.

We sometimes have honour killings in the UK (they are more often to do with marriage issues than disobedience) and the whole nation is appalled. But it is in the Bible. I find that difficult.

Hello Hekuran,

To some, it seems harsh to kill a person even when these are have repeatedly shown themselves as incorrigible, committing sadistic acts. If a person contracts a viral illness, would that one want to allow it to grow even more, even to the point that death results ? It is only reasonable that they would seek medical help to hopefully destroy the viral infection. Likewise with one who, though grown, despite repeated warnings, still persists in their rebellious course.

Hence, under the Mosaic Law, God decreed that a son who was a "glutton and a drunkard", was deemed worthy of death, in order to clear out that which is wicked from their midst. Allowing it to continue unabated shows gross permissiveness that would have emboldened others to follow a similar course.

This was what happened before the flood of Noah's day. Rebellious angels materialized as humans and took "wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose."(Gen 6:2) These wicked angels then fathered a generation of rebellious sons called the Nephilim, meaning "Fellers; Those Who Cause [Others] to Fall Down".(Gen 6:4)

As a result, the Bible account says that God "saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts was only bad all the time."(Gen 6:5) Did God overlook all this badness ? Genesis 6:7 says: "So Jehovah said: “I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret that I have made them."

Hence, true justice was served on that "generation", with God telling Noah: "Go, you and all your household, into the ark, because you are the one I have seen to be righteous before me among this generation."(Gen 7:1) Among his "generation", only Noah and his family were deemed worthy to remain on the earth after the Noachian Flood. Proverbs 2:21, 22 says that "the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it."

This removal of the "wicked...and treacherous" is not to be done by Christians, for we are to love even our enemies.(Matt 5:44) Rather the apostle Paul told the Romans: "Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.” (Rom 12:18, 19)

Jesus spoke of "meek" ones who will inherit the earth at Matthew 5:5. Therefore, for these "meek" or teachable ones to enjoy the earth as God originally intended, the "wicked...and treacherous" must be removed, for David wrote that "the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."(Ps 37:11)

Today, there is what Jesus called "a wicked and adulterous generation".(Matt 16:4) In many parts of the earth,the Bible's moral values have been cast aside, with the resultant moral decay causing a widespread lack of love.(Matt 24:12) Only those who put on the "new personality", patterned after Jesus and discarding the "old personality", will be those who remain forever on the earth.(Eph 4:20-24)
 
Back
Top