• Hi Guest!

    Please share Talk Jesus community on every platform you have to give conservatives an outlet and safe community to be apart of.

    Support This Community

    Thank You

  • Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Bible and Jesus

[John] 22:16 "I, Jesus... am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."

Morning star. (a) Any one of the planets (Venus, Jupiter, Mars, or Saturn) when it precedes the sun in rising, esp. Venus. Cf. Evening star, Evening. (b) Satan. See Lucifer. [Morning star in Hebrew and Latin means Satan]

with the preceding information

[John] 22:16 "I, Jesus... am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star [Satan]."
1. Ancestry
According to Genesis God told Noah to build an arc, find some animals, get food etc... because he was going to flood the earth.

After that Noah and his family were the sole survivors on earth (until they repopulated it). Doesn't that mean that we are all descendants of Noah, and if we are than isn’t any kind of sexual relationship incest?

2. Evolution
Since Noah and his whole family were all from the same area and related to each other they would all be the same race and have about the same skin color. If that is so, how do we have such a great spectrum of colors today? Evolution. Our skin, height, bone structure and many other physical traits have changed to match our surroundings. Look how much we have changed over the years; compare our bone structure to our ancestors, then our ancestors to an chimpanzee. Evolution is not an unlikely idea.

3. God made a mistake?

[Genesis] 6:06"God was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and he was grieved in His heart."

4. Superman
Noah died when he was over 900 years old. Are the years for them the same as ours or are they on a different calendar? Around the oldest has someone lived is about 130. 900 mm.... NO. You say, "That’s just a silly part, that’s not true LOL look at the rest." If that part is not true, how can you be sure any of it is?

5. Religion vs Knowledge
[Genesis] 2:17 "But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat..."

Why has the church always tried to put down information that proved wrong the bible. If you are a true believer you do not need proof of God, you have faith.

Staff Member
I will warn you not to dare even mean the disgusting belief of EVOLUTION, aka decending from animals. That is sick and a truly "Lost Soul" perspective.

God is perfect and cannot make mistakes. You and I can and have and will do more mistakes. He was sorry because of the way people were. He knew it would happen but he gives us the "freedom of choice" You do know what freedom is don't you? Wouldn't you give your children freedom to do what they wish or would you force them to be robotics?

GOD lowered our lifespan years for a perfect reason. First, we do not deserve to live due to our sinful nature (don't dare deny this as it is true). He may very well have done us a favor by limiting our lifespan to "120 years" (not literal).

Morning Star
David is referred to as a Morning Star by GOD. Don't add opinions to it or try to bring Satan into. Every word has two meanings. You shold know that by now.

Dictionary.com's definition (many definitions for Morning Star, this is just one).

Morning star. (a) Any one of the planets (Venus, Jupiter, Mars, or Saturn) when it precedes the sun in rising, esp. Venus. Cf. Evening star, Evening. (b) Satan. See Lucifer.

As you see, (a) and (b) is two different definitions. See Bible Gateway http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin...age=0&search=morning+star&version=NIV for several verses containing "morning star". It is used in many different referrences and does NOT mean "lucifer" or "satan" all the time. Two and too and to sound alike but are different in meanings.

See the commentary here on Revlations 22:16-21

Are you serious? Why don't you first mention WHEN Noah's Arc was built and the flood occurred? That should give you an idea. Please refrain from inviting the stupid evolution THEORY. If we were descendants of animals of apes, what did apes look like back then? And how come they are not humans like us know? And, how is it then suddenly we're totally different species with full emotions and full brain power while apes remain quite the same?

"Doesn't that mean that we are all descendants of Noah, and if we are than isn’t any kind of sexual relationship incest?"

Get your geneology straight. "..incest". That is quite lame to say. So I guess Adam & Eve were incest as well? Then perhaps you have a better idea of how to populate the earth and bring it forth to your creator GOD.

Clearly, you do not have the Word of GOD in your heart and I suggest you read and study the Bible before you go forth with comments like yours. I will pray for you and I hope you will peek at the "Bible Answers" forum on the site.
Morning Star

Revelation 22:16
Re 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star. "`I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!

Dayspring | Daystar | Star, Morning

(Job 38:12; Luke 1:78), the dawn of the morning; daybreak. (Compare Isaiah 60:1,2; Malachi 4:2; Revelation 22:16.)

which precedes and accompanies the sun-rising. It is found only in 2 Peter 1:19, where it denotes the manifestation of Christ to the soul, imparting spiritual light and comfort. He is the "bright and morning star" of Revelation 2:28; 22:16. (Compare Numbers 24:17.)Star, Morning
a name figuratively given to Christ (Revelation 22:16; Compare 2 Peter 1:19). When Christ promises that he will give the "morning star" to his faithful ones, he "promises that he will give to them himself, that he will give to them himself, that he will impart to them his own glory and a share in his own royal dominion; for the star is evermore the symbol of royalty (Matthew 2:2), being therefore linked with the sceptre (Numbers 24:17). All the glory of the world shall end in being the glory of the Church." Trench's Comm.

  • (Shining of,) of the reward of faithful ministers
    Daniel 12:3
  • (Setting the nest amongst,) of pride and carnal security
    Obadiah 1:4

Titles and Names of Christ

And to know the love of Christ which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God...
Staff Member
Thank you OneHeart for that. That was very kind of you to put your time and effort to post that lengthy post :)

God Bless
Chad said:
Thank you OneHeart for that. That was very kind of you to put your time and effort to post that lengthy post :)

God Bless
oh thanks and you are very welcome, i enjoy helping , sharing information when i can, and just hope that it is of some help to some one,

One Heart for my Saviour,
First of all I don't get where Saturn (Satan) is the Morning Star. Every text book I have read on astronomy say that both Mercury and Venus are both evening and morning stars. That is because they are nearer to the sun than the earth is, so they can never appear very far from the sun in the sky. In other words, when the sun sets in the evening they might be in the west, near the sun as an evening star. Or they could be in the morning sky before sunrise, again, near the sun. But neither Mercury nor Venus can be opposite the sun in the sky, such as rising at sunset. Hence, they are called the evening and morning stars. Actually, "evening star" or "morning star" nearly always refers to Venus, which is by far the brightest celestial object in the sky after the sun and moon. Mercury is much dimmer and only visible for a few weeks of the year.

Rev 22:16 says in part, "..... I am the root and the offspring of David , and the bright and morning star. (KJV)

To me this means He is splendour and glory to His kingdom; just as the morning star ushers in the sun, so shall He usher in the unclouded and eternal glories of the everlasting kingdom.

As the Messiah, he is the bright Morning Star, the light of salvation to all (Rev 2:28; 2 Peter 1:19). In Num 24:17, Balaam declared, "I see him, but not in the present time. I perceive him, but far in the distant future. A star will rise from Jacob; a scepter will emerge from Israel" (NLT). The "star" may have referred both to King David and David's greater descendant, Jesus Christ. As the morning star is the first star to be seen in the darkness before the dawn, so Christ, the morning star, promises that the night of tribulation will soon be over and the new kingdom is about to dawn.

The "morning star" announces dawn's soon arrival. Jesus Christ will came to His church as "the Morning Star." But when He returns to judge, it will be as "the Sun of righteousness" in burning fury (Mal 4:1-3). Because God's people look for their Lord's return, they keep their lives dean and dedicated to Him (1 John 2:28-3:3).

About 'Ancestory' the reasoning mind says you are right. If Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives were all taht was left on this earth it has to be so. There is some debate whether the flood cover the whole earth as we know it or did it cover the earth as they knew it.

Incest? You can go back clear to Genesis and see who Cain married - it had to be one of his sisters. But you must remember that then the genes were pure. In breeding animals you find that you never breed an animal that has a weakness as that weakness as it is passed down through the generations becomes predominate. So it is with humans. Our genes have become so poluted with man made chemicals and things grown in an old worn out earth its a wonder we haven't all gone mad.

Which brings us to 'evelution'. No one in their right mind can believe man decended from monkeys or what ever. I will agree that man has decended and as a whole has become a disgrace to the animal kingdom. Animals know and keep their boundries - man does not.

Evelution - I believe a better word for it would be adaptation. I believe that man, over the generations has evolved or asapted to fit their enviorment. It has a lot to do with, not only enviorment but also diet and culture. For example in the eastern countries (Japan, China, etc.) we see a people who are much shorter than the people of the western hemisphere. They live longer and have 'sharp' minds even in old age. Studies have shown that this is due to diet and the structured disapline of their lives. As these people have moved into the western culture it has 'evolved'. Preceeding generations have become taller and broder and their life span has become shorter. They have adapted to the western culture.

We do have a great varity of skin tones and textures, height, bone structure and many other physical traits all which has been effected by match our surroundings. And we have changed from the characteristics of our ancestors. And if your mind was open you would see the reason. We have five children - one looks like me (but thank God he acts like his father); another looks like his father and the other three carry a combination (a melding) of our looks and actions. They grew up and married a person who looked entirely different and its hard to reconize any of our features in the grandchildren. I can't imagine what the great-grandchildren will look like. Evelution? No. Its just an incorporation of different genes.

There's an old poem of years past - I don't remember it all but it starts out: "Three monkeys sat in a tree discussing things they are said to be. Said one "they say man decended from us ...... (followed is a lot of verbal questioning interplay beteen the monkeys such as: What monkey would build a fence around a tree to keep others out) The last line goes: Yes, man decended, but not from us!

Did God make a mistake? Man has translated the Hebrew word used here - nacham (naw-kham) as "sorry" or 'repented". It really means to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly.
When God saw the extent of human wickedness it broke His heart. God was not unmoved. He had made a creature of such noble powers and faculties, and had put him on this earth, which he built and furnished on purpose to be a convenient, comfortable, habitation for him; and it grieved him at his heart. These are expressions after the manner of men, and must be understood so as not to reflect upon the honour of God's immutability or felicity.

Number 4 on your list: Methuselah lived 969 years - longer than Noah. Again you have to look at enviorment and heredity. If you read further you will see that there was a drastic decrease in the life span. In Psalm 90:10 David says, "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years , yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away. (KJV)

5. Religion vs Knowledge I don't know of any church's that have put down such information mostly because there is no scientific proof that the Bible is wrong. In fact more and more scientiests are claiming the Bible is true. No where in the Bible does God try to prove He exists. We, as Christians, live by faith. If in this we only have hope, then we are hopelessly lost. When you depend on 'knowledge' to get you through this life, you're eating of the wrong tree. the Lord gave me a vision one night about the Two Trees - [I'll share it with anyone who wants it]

Well, I'm at the end of your numbers and I've run out of steam. I don't know if what I've written makes any sense or not, but I pray God you will find the sourse of true knowledge.
That was nice OneHeart.
I'll look at those Scriptures when I'm through here.
I'd enjoy knowing the names of our Ultimate God & Father.

My mind will never quaver over this one, I live by faith and I love and adore the Lord Jesus for what he did for me on that cross.
well said Chad about the ape's my sentiments exactly, why are there still any around if they all became human :)
we have one creator our God, who sent his son to die in our place for our sin and I thank him from the bottom of my heart.
My mind is sound about were we came from and were we will be going to.
Staff Member
I honestly feel sickened when I hear someone believing in evolution, I mean right off the bat it goes like this:

1. "theory" of evolution. no proof, just that; a "theory"
2. Why are apes still around and not human?
3. Why apes and no other animals became human? (maybe this one is sarcastic lol)

But, I really feel that anyone who believes in this is as far as "lost" as you can get (but atheism wins of course). Always pray for them. Jesus would too :)
Thanks JPJinks for your insight and biblical support. I agree with much of what you've said, and in fact would have answered similarly.

Perhaps you're aware of this already, but much of what you said has been written in an evangelistic book called "The Stranger on the Road to Emmaus." It's not an apologetic book (though it deals with many of the issues you've mentioned, but not in great details), but rather it focuses on letting God's Word speak for itself (it contains more than 1,200 verses of Scripture). Many people have misunderstandings about the Bible because they don't get the whole picture, even from the very beginning. And that's how the book was written, from Creation to Christ. (In fact, that's how the Book was written, so why not tell it the way God wrote it?)

Different paradigms such as evolution, astrology, post-modernism, etc. all have problems with the Bible because their worldviews are without God, and in order to reach them we must bring them back to ground zero..."In the beginning God..." Is this strictly a problem in today's biblically-illiterate modern world? I'm afraid not. Apparently even Jesus' disciples had trouble putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. And that's why Jesus had go all the way back to the beginning, "beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself" (Luke 24:27).

God's Word is powerful when it's properly understood.