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Is this the phrase necessary to prove spirit? Is this the confessing- Christ has come in the flesh?

  • yes

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • no

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Total voters
    4
Member
1John4:1-6
1 John 4:1-6King James Version (KJV)
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This is what John says is required to know if we are dealing with the Spirit of God or not.

So , my question is does 1Luke 42 fit the bill. And if a spirit in man or a visitor from heaven states this- can we say they are truly of God?
Luke 1:42King James Version (KJV)
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
 
Active
1John4:1-6
1 John 4:1-6King James Version (KJV)
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This is what John says is required to know if we are dealing with the Spirit of God or not.

So , my question is does 1Luke 42 fit the bill. And if a spirit in man or a visitor from heaven states this- can we say they are truly of God?
Luke 1:42King James Version (KJV)
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Well this was Elizabeth filled with the holy ghost upon seeing cousin Mary. Apparently she didnt know Mary was pregnant except by the holy ghost when her babe leapt in her womb.

If the holy ghost was not in elizabeth she probably would have just said Hi mary long time no see. Mary then would have had to explain what she was doing on Elizabeths doorstep.
 
Member
1John4:1-6
1 John 4:1-6King James Version (KJV)
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This is what John says is required to know if we are dealing with the Spirit of God or not.

So , my question is does 1Luke 42 fit the bill. And if a spirit in man or a visitor from heaven states this- can we say they are truly of God?
Luke 1:42King James Version (KJV)
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Does this necessity of the confessing of Luke1:42, to prove spirit have to do with what Christ said concerning this:
Matthew 7:21-23New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Concerning Self-Deception
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.’
 
Member
Hmm? This is interesting. I would think it would be a simple enough question which would spark simple enough answers. It seems the majority here would like to avoid this topic all together. Well, I guess sometimes silence speaks volumes.
 
Loyal
I don't think it's talking about Jesus being born.
I think 1st Jn is talking about His resurrection.
Yes, He was born as "Son of Man".. (human, flesh)
But He was also resurrected in the flesh.

Any Spirit that denies this.....

1 Jn 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
1 Jn 4:3; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Even the demons acknowledged Jesus in the flesh.
( Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34; )

Jesus was tempted by Satan. He even said "If you are the Son of God" (Matt 4:3; Matt 4:6; )
Satan knew who Jesus was.

But if Jesus resurrected in the flesh, then Satan is defeated.

Luke 24:39; [COLOR=red]"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."[/COLOR]

Acts 1:11; They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

Part of the early creed of the church was (from the Nicene Creed)

He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, and sat at the right hand of the Father.
He is to return with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.
 
Member
I don't think it's talking about Jesus being born.
I think 1st Jn is talking about His resurrection.
Yes, He was born as "Son of Man".. (human, flesh)
But He was also resurrected in the flesh.

Any Spirit that denies this.....

1 Jn 4:2; By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
1 Jn 4:3; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

Even the demons acknowledged Jesus in the flesh.
( Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34; )

Jesus was tempted by Satan. He even said "If you are the Son of God" (Matt 4:3; Matt 4:6; )
Satan knew who Jesus was.

But if Jesus resurrected in the flesh, then Satan is defeated.

Luke 24:39; [COLOR=red]"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."[/COLOR]

Acts 1:11; They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

Part of the early creed of the church was (from the Nicene Creed)

He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, and sat at the right hand of the Father.
He is to return with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.

So, let me see if I get this? it is not talking about according to you, His coming in the flesh and glorifying His birth which obviously would come because this is the Incarnation= Christ made flesh . So, you are putting His resurrection before His Incarnation of which the Resurrection would not be- without? And you believe by doing this you are confessing Christ has come in the flesh? He must FIRST come in the Flesh, before He is Crucified and resurrected, no?
 
Active
Hmm? This is interesting. I would think it would be a simple enough question which would spark simple enough answers. It seems the majority here would like to avoid this topic all together. Well, I guess sometimes silence speaks volumes.
I dont think people are avoiding it there are heaps of threads posted on here and not everyone is answered straight away.

With your second question certainly Jesus can discern who has his spirit or not. Because some can come in his name but there are lying counterfeits..,in revelation the beast has signs and wonders similar to the miracles Jesus performed but just because they were supernatural didnt mean they were of God.

Likewise there are many counterfeits of christianity for example mormons lay claim to Jesus name as well but they do not believe Jesus Christ came in the flesh..,they believe in a completely different Jesus.

Not disputing that at all.
But not everyone who is born of the flesh is resurrected.
That is true because some gnostics were spreading heresys about Jesus that he didnt come in the flesh he was just a spirit being.

Jesus had a bodily resurrection and there were at the time 500 eyewitnesses. Well the apostles actually saw him in the flesh after resurrection. Also they were with him all the time and ate with him, before his death and after his resurrection. Now some like thomas did not believe at first until they could touch him. And after pentecost anyone who believed Jesus came in the flesh could receive his spirit.

What elizabeth declared only the Holy ghost can discern. But she was addressing Mary not Jesus in that verse.

There are lots of false prophets out there that will tell you lies about Jesus for example some sects will say he was reincarnated or comes back as a cracker you have to eat him. Or they may claim they themselves are Jesus like rastafarians got to believing someone else was really Jesus!

Muslims believe he faked his death.

Word of faith proponets also believe weird things about Jesus that he was not originally the son of God and sinned like everyone else but because he was born again had miraculous powers and became a god.

Orthodox jews will just say Jesus never existed and people were going after a false messiah, they are still awaiting theirs.
 
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Member
Not disputing that at all.
But not everyone who is born of the flesh is resurrected.
I am not talking about everyone else. I simply asking if the verses of Luke1 fit the bill concerning the "Confessing" required in 1John 4:1-6, do these Luke 1 verses fit the bill? Luke 1:42, Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb. And also, Gabriel the Arch angel said the same thing using different words (Thank God for an extensive vocabulary) Luke1 :28 Hail, full of grace the Lord is with thee..... This is a pronouncement of what was to come, the" Incarnation" and why he said the LORD IS WITH THEE for truly the Lord would be with her. That is why it is called the Annunciation because an Angel must announce what is to come before the actually event. So, the question still stands, do the Luke 1 verses fit the bill concerning the 'Confessing" that Christ has come in the flesh, "The Incarnation". Does an earthly being and heavenly being need to be able to confess what the first heavenly and earthly being confessed to be as proof of test as being of the Spirit of God?
 
Member
There are lots of false prophets out there that will tell you lies about Jesus for example some sects will say he was reincarnated or comes back as a cracker you have to eat him. Or they may claim they themselves are Jesus like rastafarians got to believing someone else was really Jesus!

Muslims believe he faked his death.

Word of faith proponets also believe weird things about Jesus that he was not originally the son of God and sinned like everyone else but because he was born again had miraculous powers and became a god.

Orthodox jews will just say Jesus never existed and people were going after a false messiah, they are still awaiting theirs.
I agree there are many false prophets out there. I am speaking upon those less obvious ones of Matthew 7:21-23.... whom Christ will surprise in letting them know: "I never knew you". This is tricky! I am simply saying there is a way to understand this, scripture can help us understand it. So, my topic starter or lead- are the verses I placed, and are for this reason, (To understand the ways of the tricky- as to NOT be defiled by them). God Bless!
 
Loyal
Matt 7:21-22; aren't necessarily false prophets. They are false Christians. People who "think" they are Christians.

21: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22: Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23: And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

He isn't telling them to depart from Him because of what they believe. He is telling them to depart from Him... because they "practice lawlessness".
 
Loyal
@Wisdom'sFruit

Welcome to the forum!
Not sure what it is that you want. Are you asking whether it is necessary for a person speak physical words via mouth, tongue, voice box etc. to acknowledge that he recognized the presence of the Spirit of God? To that I would say, no, for certainly a person who is a physical deaf-mute could make the acknowledgement in whatever way was appropriate for him. Whatever God requires of the person is what is necessary.

Elizabeth did what she needed to do. Trying to set up a black and white rule that will always apply would not be possible unless God gave us precise instructions in the way to do it.

We can confess the Truth of God in our heart by the way our heart receives that Truth when it is received. God is not looking for words unless the words really express what is in the heart. Who but God or someone filled the Holy Ghost has "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" the message God is sending on this or on anything?
 
Member
Matt 7:21-22; aren't necessarily false prophets. They are false Christians. People who "think" they are Christians.

21: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22: Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
23: And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

He isn't telling them to depart from Him because of what they believe. He is telling them to depart from Him... because they "practice lawlessness".
False prophets, false Christians- what difference to their falseness. A lie is a lie and a bold face lie we know as such..... but a deception comes in a guise like a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Either way, Christ says: "I never knew you, depart from me evildoers. And what is their lawlessness? Would they be performing miracles by the Holy Spirit ? If so why would Christ say: "depart from me!"
He would not say this if their work was in the Holy Spirit. He says this because they think it is by the Holy Spirit, when actually it is by the devil, who comes with all lying sign's and wonders. Luke1-28 and Luke1;42
proves who they are. This is the testing of the spirit, the tool given to believers to not be deceived! It is Only by the Holy Spirit that Gabriel and Elisabeth said what they said. If one can not or will not confess what
they said, then we know of what spirit they are from.
 
Loyal
Mark 16:17; [COLOR=red]These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; [/COLOR]
Mark 16:18; [COLOR=red] they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” [/COLOR]

Not all who do wonders and cast out demons are of the devil. In fact.. Jesus said.

Matt 12:25; And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “[COLOR=red]Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.[/COLOR]
Matt 12:26; [COLOR=red] If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? [/COLOR]

It's unlikely Satan would cast out demons "in Jesus Name" or any other name.
 
Active
Sons of Sceva come to mind.
Some people were sorcerers and then tried to claim it was Jesus, in order to deceive, others tried to buy the holy spirit. Well you can't do that.

Go back a bit further to where Jesus is talking about false prophets who are inwardly ravening wolves. we can tell them by their fruits. They may make a big claim about casting out demons and performing miracles and lying signs and wonders but it is by their fruits that we know them.

If you look in exodus the confrontation between Pharoah and Moses. When Moses threw his staff down it became a snake, but then Pharoah got his sorcerers to do the same. Exodus chapter 8 everytime Moses did something miraculous to demonstrate God's power, Pharoah's magicians tried to do the same thing.

I am not talking about everyone else. I simply asking if the verses of Luke1 fit the bill concerning the "Confessing" required in 1John 4:1-6, do these Luke 1 verses fit the bill? Luke 1:42, Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb. And also, Gabriel the Arch angel said the same thing using different words (Thank God for an extensive vocabulary) Luke1 :28 Hail, full of grace the Lord is with thee..... This is a pronouncement of what was to come, the" Incarnation" and why he said the LORD IS WITH THEE for truly the Lord would be with her. That is why it is called the Annunciation because an Angel must announce what is to come before the actually event. So, the question still stands, do the Luke 1 verses fit the bill concerning the 'Confessing" that Christ has come in the flesh, "The Incarnation". Does an earthly being and heavenly being need to be able to confess what the first heavenly and earthly being confessed to be as proof of test as being of the Spirit of God?
I don't think you have to use the exact same words as Mary or Elizabeth said as some kind of formula. The holy ghost gives us utterance when we magnify the Lord and this was shown to happen at Pentecost and every time someone is filled with the holy ghost when they repent and believe. We declare that Jesus Christ is Lord. Nobody can say that except by the holy ghost.

Also Look at Anna and Simeon who also witnessed/prophesied that Jesus was the Messiah. Out of all the babies brought to the temple how could they know this one was the Messiah? Only by the holy ghost.
 
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