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Baptism of the Holy Spirit, What Does It Mean?

Active
Let me start by saying that I did NOT start this thread to push the Pentecostal agenda. I have not been filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues and I have never spoken a single word in tongues my entire life. Personally, I believe as most of you, that tongues have ceased as Paul said they would.

Before we get started let me also say that when the Pentecostals gave a name to their new doctrine, "The Baptism of the Holy Spirit" they created a very confusing mess. For example, John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water but One comes after me who will Baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire."

Hundreds of years before the Pentecostals gave this name to their doctrine, the great theologians interpreted John's statement as "the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They pointed to Colossians 2:10-12 as the spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit takes up residence in the new believer.

"And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

As you can see, this is not a water baptism, but a spiritual operation of God performed by the Holy Spirit. So you can easily see the confusion the Pentecostals created with this name.

However, with all of this being said, I do believe the "the filling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is Biblical, and that it did take place in the first century Church." So let's get to the Scripture and I will make my case.

Acts 8:5-8 KJV
"Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

And there was great joy in that city."

So we see here that Philip went to Samaria and preached the Gospel to them, and they believed what he said and also the miracles that were being performed.

Acts 8:12 KJV
"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."

Now we see that they believed on Christ and Philip water baptized them, or probably had some fellow workers with him and they water baptized them.

Acts 8:14-17
"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."

Now we see that the Church in Jerusalem sent Peter and John to lay hands on them so they could receive the Holy Spirit.

Let me ask a question here. Did Peter and John come to lay hands on these Samaritans for them to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, or did they receive the indwelling Holy Spirit when they believed in Christ and were baptized as Philip preached to them days before?

The most popular argument is that the Lord delayed their receiving of the Holy Spirit when they believed until Peter and John came, and they give several possible reasons why this could have been.

Let me ask another question. Is our salvation which includes the receiving of the indwelling Holy Spirit dependent on the laying on of hands in the Protestant Church, is that Biblical? Someone has said that this is an exception by God, if it is, it's the only one found in Scripture of it's kind, and we can take nothing from it. Even the Old Testament saints were saved in justification by faith, as was Abraham.

No, this is not an exception by God, we are all saved the same way without exception. Let's take a look at when the Holy Spirit is given in His plan of salvation.

Ephesians 1:13
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Acts 2:38
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

There is no delay in receiving the Holy Spirit when we repent and believe. I think most will agree that the receiving of the Holy Spirit is instant/immediate upon repenting and faith in Christ. Both Paul and Peter seem to have seen it this way.

If Peter and John did not come to lay hands on them to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit that we receive the moment we trust in Christ, then they came to impart to them the gift of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. Even though Luke does not record that these Samaritans did speak in tongues, we know by example in Acts that the laying on of hands by the apostles is one way of receiving the filling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
 
Active
Your question is answered by the fact that there is ONE baptism that makes you His and that is the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
Water symbolic.

If you will recall the early Apostles saw Jesus alive and walking, talking but did not receive the HG until 50 days later.
For some it is rather quick like those that Peter preached to the day of his infilling, for others in the Lords timing whatever that may be.
For those of us who have received it there is no question about tongues as far as prayer is concerned.
It is the new creature speaking for us, we just have to get out of the way and allow it to speak for as Paul put it we don’t really know what or how to pray but the spirit does the intercession for us.
He like any other true believer that has received the HG would pray with understanding and without by letting the spirit speak for him.
The reason a person does not use the prayer language is they may not know it is available to them, possibly repressing the spirit, or they havn’t actually received that infilling yet.

The good news is that if one has truly from the heart believed then the infilling will follow and when you receive it and start speaking what seems like non sense you will repent of your unbelief concerning what the Lord said a believer would do.
I do not recall Him saying anything about only believers up to a certain point in time?

Most will preach against tongues because they havn’t received the infilling and still want to seem valid as teachers of the word. Modern Christianity.

It is good to search out a matter pertaining to God and ask Him why you have not received.
Ask and ye shall receive right?
 
Active
Your question is answered by the fact that there is ONE baptism that makes you His and that is the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
Water symbolic.

If you will recall the early Apostles saw Jesus alive and walking, talking but did not receive the HG until 50 days later.
For some it is rather quick like those that Peter preached to the day of his infilling, for others in the Lords timing whatever that may be.
For those of us who have received it there is no question about tongues as far as prayer is concerned.
It is the new creature speaking for us, we just have to get out of the way and allow it to speak for as Paul put it we don’t really know what or how to pray but the spirit does the intercession for us.
He like any other true believer that has received the HG would pray with understanding and without by letting the spirit speak for him.
The reason a person does not use the prayer language is they may not know it is available to them, possibly repressing the spirit, or they havn’t actually received that infilling yet.

The good news is that if one has truly from the heart believed then the infilling will follow and when you receive it and start speaking what seems like non sense you will repent of your unbelief concerning what the Lord said a believer would do.
I do not recall Him saying anything about only believers up to a certain point in time?

Most will preach against tongues because they havn’t received the infilling and still want to seem valid as teachers of the word. Modern Christianity.

It is good to search out a matter pertaining to God and ask Him why you have not received.
Ask and ye shall receive right?

Yes there is one baptism and it is a spiritual baptism of our salvation found in my OP, Colossians 2:10-12.

Water baptism is the symbol of our spiritual salvation, it is not THE ONE BAPTISM.

The "baptism of the Holy Spirit" as the Pentecostals call it, is not a baptism either, it's referred to in Scripture as a "filling."
 
Loyal

 
Loyal
is not a baptism either, it's referred to in Scripture as a "filling."

That's true in some scriptures, but not all.

G907
βαπτίζω
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.
Total KJV occurrences: 80

This is the word used in these verses.

Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Mark 1:8; "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 2:38; Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 11:16; "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
1Cor 12:13; For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
 
Active
That's true in some scriptures, but not all.

G907
βαπτίζω
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.
Total KJV occurrences: 80

This is the word used in these verses.

Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Mark 1:8; "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 2:38; Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 11:16; "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
1Cor 12:13; For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
I look at this as a baptism that is so fully immersive that you have no choice but to drink it in and be fully satiated by it.

I can still remember my turn, it happened while driving and it nearly caused me to wreck. All alone in my truck heading home after a day of strange events
in which I knew a person was possessed by an unclean spirit, and as such I knew that the rest had to be true and boy o boy was it a great feeling to know
finally what I had seen on TV and heard at church that God really had sent His Son to die for my sins.
A couple hours after the event at work, heading home, it was as if a finger was laid on my forehead and hot honey was rolling over me from top to bottom.
I began crying tears of joy and words that were not English started coming out of my mouth just as a new born baby cries for being born into the world my spirit
long separated from God was reunited and the joy was overwhelming. Needless to say several days/weeks later as I couldn't get enough information from the Bible,
my understanding of what had happened took hold. Like most I would say Holy Ghost immersion/baptism is not a physical thing that can be related to one
who has not received it yet.
I would say it was within a month that I had my hands on a book about speaking in prayer language. I knew what I had heard coming out of my mouth that
day. And it wasn't a language I knew. So why was it not continuing to function? The book said simply that I was in my own spirits way. Sit down take
a deep breath let it out, open your mouth and don't say anything just let the spirit speak, don't even think. And guess what happened my spirit started jabbering
away like it had decades worth of things to say to God and has continued to speak since that day. And yes it uses your tongue to do the speaking.

The thread you gave from 2020 was quite interesting but there was a point in it that caught my eye, don't think it was yours but just wanted to say that
JTB was given the Spirit just as any other Prophet of God. He was not born again, as Jesus made the statement that there was no greater man born of
a woman than JTB, but yet the least in the kingdom was greater than that man. So if the least in the kingdom was greater than John, John could not have
been born of the Spirit, only given what was necessary to fulfill his role in Gods design. Even he desired to have Jesus baptize him, and He knew what that
baptism was, not water.
John will get his turn in Gods good timing, just as David, Elijah, Moses etc.... As all these men were born of a woman as well and lesser than JTB according to
Jesus.
We know that a man must be born again to see the kingdom and work out his own salvation. These guys great as they were didn't have the opportunity
to be born again thus they couldn't really see the kingdom. Much less have their faith perfected into the full measure of Christ. That requires a crucible
of good and evil and suffering with Him. Their turn will come just as all mens will. As the book says BUT EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER.
We have waited for them to finish what God had for them to do before He dealt with us, they are waiting now to come into the same life
that He has given us. Thus to some degree the LAST SHALL BE FIRST AND THE FIRST SHALL BE LAST.

I've been yelling as loud as my fingers can type that the second death is the period of time where another crop of sons will be perfected and come into the
life bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ, and I know it falls on deaf ears for most, but it's still the truth. Part of my calling I guess.

As mentioned in the 144,000 that this is a countable number vs the no man can number quantity in heaven. Is there any other way we get from 144,000
to a multitude that can't be numbered?

I would share more but until He allows one to see the truth of this it would be futile on my part.
 
Active
That's true in some scriptures, but not all.

G907
βαπτίζω
baptizō
bap-tid'-zo
From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.
Total KJV occurrences: 80

This is the word used in these verses.

Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Mark 1:8; "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 2:38; Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 11:16; "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
1Cor 12:13; For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

I'm not a Pentecostal but I have many friends who are. Their main verse for what they call "the baptism of the Holy Spirit" is Acts2:4,

" And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

They refer to it as a filling. They also use the KJV as I do for that reference.

This took place at Pentecost and according to them 2 things took place. The Holy Spirit came in a new dimension baptizing the believer in Christ and taking up a permanent resident in the heart. The other thing that happened simultaneously was the filling of the Holy Spirit with the Gift of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. This same thing happened with Cornelius and his household under Peter's preaching, but they were Gentiles.

This fulfilled the prophecy of John the Baptist in baptizing the believer in the Holy Spirit and also the prophecy of Isaiah 28:11-12 in the gift of tongues.

"For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear."
 
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