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Backsliders; Saved or Lost?

Discussion in 'Sermons' started by Chad, Oct 6, 2009.

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  1. Backsliders; Saved or Lost?
    John R. Rice

    Everywhere people want to know whether the backslider is saved or lost. After one has sinned, is he still a child of God? When he has lost the joy of salvation, does he still have the salvation?

    Well, the answer to this question is that the backslider does not deserve to be saved but deserves to go to Hell; that other people will often think that he is not saved; that he himself is likely to doubt his salvation or to believe that God has forsaken him utterly; but, thank God, the backslider still is a child of God. He is a disobedient child of God and he will be punished for it, yet every born-again child of God who falls into sin is still God's child.

    It is true that the backslider does not deserve salvation. What a tragedy when a child of God brings reproach on the cause of Christ! It may be an outrageous sin such as drunkenness or adultery. Or it may be sins like the sins of those other backsliders - Noah, Lot, David. Or it may be a backsliding in the heart that does not seem so bad to outsiders but really results in damning souls that might have been won.

    Who knows whether in God' s sight a cold heart, that does not win souls and never has the anointing for power, may be more wicked than the man who is tempted and falls into drink or blasphemy or adultery! What could be worse than letting a soul go to Hell for millions of years because of our carelessness, our love for the things of this life? But in either case, the backslider deserves nothing good from God. That means that I ought to have gone to Hell long ago! How many times I have failed God! How many vows I have broken! How many duties I have neglected!

    But then the same thing could be said about every Christian in the world. We deserve nothing good from God. No one does. It would have served us right for Him to let us all go to Hell.

    But, thanks be to God, my salvation is not depending upon my works. I did not deserve salvation when I got it, and I have never deserved it any thirty seconds since that time! Salvation is all of grace. How sweet to all of us poor sinners is Ephesians 2:8,9, "By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." And when we get to Heaven there will not be one living soul who can say, "I deserved this. I earned my way to Heaven." No, how our hearts will run over with gratitude and rejoicing when we say there that

    Jesus paid it all,
    All to Him I owe;
    Sin had left a crimson stain,
    He washed it white as snow.
    And that is true of my life today as it was the first day I trusted Jesus as my Saviour. Oh, thank God for His mercy that never fails! He saves every sinner who trusts in Him, and He keeps every one of His erring children. He chastises them but He does not lose them.

    Not only does the backslider not deserve his salvation, but others will often judge him and think he is not saved. Had I seen Noah lying drunk and naked in his tent, I might have said, "You old hypocrite! God ought to have let you die in the flood with the rest of the drunkards!" I would have thought, perhaps, that there was no difference in Noah's lying there drunk and another man whom I saw two days ago lying drunk outside a saloon in Philadelphia.

    I think my indignation would have mounted high against David had I been there and had I known how he seduced Bathsheba and had her husband killed. I might well have thought, "You hypocrite, you psalm-singing sinner! You pious adulterer and murderer! You ought to be in Hell!" Had I been the judge, I probably would have sent David on to Hell.

    So with Lot down in Sodom, calling those wicked, licentious wretches "brethren." So with Peter when he cursed and denied that he even knew Christ. Doubtless I would have thought he was unconverted. If God had left it to me, I might have sent these backsliders on to Hell. Certainly I would have doubted their sincerity when they told me that they loved God.

    Oh, but I would not have known the agony in David's heart which later found expression in the pleading confession of the fifty-first Psalm! And I could not have known the distress of soul in Peter as, weeping bitterly, he went out into the cool morning of that spring day after he had denied the Saviour! And I could not have known that Lot "vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds" down in Sodom, as II Peter 2:8 says happened.

    The backslider in heart still has in him the voice of God, still has dwelling in him the Spirit of God, and is still God's child. Others will criticize and judge him and think him unsaved.

    Even the backslider himself may feel that he is unsaved. In the first chapter of II Peter we are urged to add certain graces so that we will not be as backsliders - barren and unfruitful. Verse 9 says: "but he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins." How many Christians have forgotten that they were purged from their old sins! There are many, no doubt, who give up their hope.

    I remember when I gave mine up. When I asked to join the church after my profession of faith, my father thought I was too young to be saved, so he discouraged me. Then I threw all my hope away. For three years I had no joy and no assurance of salvation.

    Many a man tells me, "Well, I thought I was saved once, but l guess I was not." A letter came this week from a good woman who told me of her temper, her harsh words to her husband and children, of grudges that arose in her heart. She said: "Could I be a Christian and be like this?"

    So backsliders lose the joy of salvation and lose the assurance of salvation, too. How many decide that God has forsaken them! They know that they were once saved, but now that they have fallen into sin, they do not have any joy. They feel that God does not love them any more. Only day before yesterday a sad-faced woman came to tell me how she had been so preoccupied and had so neglected prayer and the Lord's Word that she felt perhaps she had committed the unpardonable sin! In fact, of the scores of people who come to me wondering if they have committed the unpardonable sin, perhaps not one of them has, but all are backslidden Christians. If one had really committed the unpardonable sin, he would not be worried about it. He would not hear God's Spirit calling. Besides, the unpardonable sin is committed only by lost people. But backsliders often feel that God has forsaken them forever.

    Thanks be to God, that is not true! God never forsakes one of His own, even though we sin grievously and even though He may punish us severely. The backslider is still God's child and is still saved.

    I have six daughters. Though they are precious children whom I love dearly, they are not little angels who can do no wrong. Sometimes they have been so bad that I felt I must punish them severely. I have had to lay on the whip or a heavy leather belt while they cried and begged for another chance. It was not easy at all. But you may be sure that when the whipping was over, they were still my children. They never lost their place at the table, nor their bed in the home, nor the love of a father's heart when they did wrong. I punished my children when they needed it, but they are still my children.

    And is God a poorer Father than I? Do you think God's love for His children is weaker than a father's love for his children? Would God forsake one of His own quicker than a human parent would? How strange to ask such a question! It answers itself! God punishes His backslidden children and grieves over them but He never forsakes a one of them.

    In Hosea, the book about backsliding Israel, is a precious word. Chapter11, verse 7, says:

    "And my people are bent to backsliding from me."

    But now let us read the next two verses, Hosea 11:8,9:

    "How shall give thee up, Ephraim? how shall deliver thee, Israel? how shall make thee as Admah? how shall set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together. I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city."

    Do you see the yearning heart of God after Ephraim and Israel? How would He be content to deal with them as with the wicked in Admah and Zeboim, the towns destroyed with Sodom and Gomorrah? In the midst of His chastising, God's heart was turned back toward Israel and He was repenting from even the punishment. And so God says: "I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger. I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man."

    God's love does not fail, as a man's love fails. A mother may forsake her sucking child, but God will not forsake one of His own! A father might drive his wayward son from the door, but never will God drive one of His own away, for He is God and not man. Men may criticize the backslider and judge him and say he is not saved, but God is not a man. His mercy is beyond human mercy, His love is greater than any human love.

    How sweet is the promise of the Lord to David and his seed in Psalm 89:30-34:

    "If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments: Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my loving kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips."

    If David and his descendants. the kings of Judah, should break God's statutes and keep not His commandments, then God promised to visit their transgression with the rod and their iniquity with stripes; but God would never utterly take His loving kindness from these, and God's faithfulness would not fail, and God would never break His covenant nor change the thing He promised! That is the way God deals with men.

    In my boyhood I remember hearing a cowboy preacher on that great text, "The gifts and calling of God are without repentance" (Rom. 11:29). And that saintly but unlettered preacher went on to recount that in all his dealings with God, he ( the preacher) had never needed to repent of anything God had done for him. He had never been sorry of any gift God had given him. I thought it was a great sermon, and it was. But when I commented on it to my father, he showed me that that man of God had missed the meaning entirely!

    God does not mean that we shall never repent of His gifts and His callings. Rather, He promises that He will never repent, will never change, will never turn from one of His gifts and one of His callings. Oh, we who have been called of God to he saints, we who are His born-again children, we who have the promise of everlasting life and a home in Heaven, may be sure that God will never repent in this matter. He will not change His calling nor take back His gift, for "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

    The sins of the backslider are all laid on Jesus, are already blotted out, are already forgiven. When Jesus died, He died for all my sins. When I trusted Him, I trusted Him for forgiveness for all of them - the sins of the future as well as those of the past. And so David cries exultantly, "Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Rom. 4:7,8). The backslider is a blessed man "unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" (Rom. 4:6).

    Jesus promised, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." The backslider deserves to be cast out, but he does not get what he deserves, God is faithful even when we are unfaithful. God keeps His covenant and fulfills all His guarantees.

    God promised to all who believe in Christ "everlasting life" and "eternal life." "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life" (John 3:36). Notice the "hath" which means "has." One who trusted Christ already has everlasting life. And Jesus said in John 6:47. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." And John 5:24 says that one who has trusted in Him has everlasting life and shall not ever come into condemnation but is already passed out of death into life. Everlasting life is for the backslider, and all of us who have put our trust in Christ are at times backsliders, but we still have what God Himself gave us out of His own abundance, everlasting life.

    The Holy Spirit lives in the body of every Christian. When the Christian sins, that unease, that unrest, that conviction which he has, is wrought in him by the blessed Holy Spirit who still goes with the backslider and never leaves him. The backslider is one of God's sheep, and Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice. and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10:27,28).

    Bless God for that promise! The word man in this verse is in italics in your Bible which means it was not in the original. Actually that verse says: "Neither shall any pluck them out of my hand." No man nor devil, not even self, can pluck a child of God, one of God's sheep, from His hand, for He has already given him eternal life and such shall never perish, He says!

    O backslider, remember that you have a place still in the Father's house! Arise from the hog pen of sin! Come back home for the Father's kiss of forgiveness and the ring of assurance of sonship and the fatted calf of rejoicing! God loves you still! You are His own, dear to His heart, bought with the blood of His Son. He will not let you go!

    Years ago I read in a Chicago paper in the personals column a classified ad that stirred my heart, and I have never forgotten it. It ran about like this:

    "Emma, please come home. Mother is sick and is calling for you. All if forgiven. Dad."

    I do not know what poor girl had broken the hearts of her father and mother, had gone down in sin with her wild companions so that she felt a stranger at home and thought that they no longer loved her. But whoever she was and wherever she was, they loved her still. The sick mother's heart could not be comforted without her daughter. So the father paid for the ad in a million copies of a newspaper, longing for Emma to see it and to know that she was still loved and was forgiven, and that they wanted her to come home.

    O backslider, I broadcast this plea from the Father's house, that you are to come on Home! God loves you still. His heart yearns over you, and He will never let you go! Oh, come on back from your wandering and make God's heart glad today!
  2. It seems to me that salvation is more a process than an event. When we make a sincere decision to confess Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, a cleansing and education process begins wherein we develop as believers. And I think that process should be seen as an upward slope continually made difficult by the allurements of the world.

    I think that Paul left us good guidance for handling the "upward slope": "...continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to His good purpose." (Phil 2:12-13 NIV)

  3. Thank you so much for this thread, Chad. I always thought when I did something really extreme and sinned badly, that I had to become a New Christian again. This has helped me to not be so discouraged. I'm mostly past all that now, but realize that I went through needless stress when I backslid. I was so afraid I would go to Hell during that time. It is still hard to believe that such a loving God is for me and all of us who struggle in this old world. None of us wish to be without Him, and it so wonderful to have encouraging words like these as we share in our struggles. Thanx for this site.
  4. Sin is Sin and it is all the same to God. We often get hung up on rating each others sin. We often say stuff like "I sin everyday, but at least it is not as bad as so and so who drinks all night on Saturday and teaches Sunday School on Sunday morning!" I praise God that I don't have to decide who is in and who is not! It feels as if some people use religion like fire insurance. Just enough of God to ensure a place in heaven, but they live like the rest of the world the rest of the time. In trying to determine lost or saved, we are called to be fruit inspectors. A Christian will bear fruit! We also choose to walk away from God. He will never leave us or forsake us. So for the person who chooses to walk away from God, I have wondered if they were truly saved. I'm not about to judge them, nor should any one else, because we are all sinners and Christians are the best at hiding their sin! We are the best secret sinners around! What does get my attention are passages like Hebrews Chapter 6. I don't know how to get around that Chapter! I do know that I love Jesus and because I love Him, sin grieves me! It hurts Him and it hurts me! I also know it will all be sorted out in Heaven and those who "play" church and are simply pew potatoes, will surely be sorry for what they did here on earth. We are all accountable for our actions! God is just and I praise Him everyday for that! <><
  5. Reality not hypocrisy

    Hello Chad,
    On this one, Backsliders; Saved or Lost, you hit a grand slam! There was passion in your statements above. There was Gods leading also. But most of all Gods word was applied correctly and spoken correctly for the backslider to find restoration. I give you a check in your column Chad. :):shade: Praise God for his mercy towards us and for his Grace that is there for us.
  6. We all backslide at some point or other, and all fall short of his Glory. The key is repentance. Some will become saved or belong to a particular denomination which feels that they have free rein to purposely go out and sin (every Saturday night in bars and with prostitutes), because they are going to church on Sunday, so "It's okay." Their attitude conveys no appreciation for true repentance/salvation. Jesus said, "go and sin no more."

    LOL at pew potatoes! Cute term, and spot on!
  7. That describes my philosophy when I was a young man in the Catholic Church. I figured I could get away with picking up a load of dirt during the week, dumping it all in the confessional on Saturday, and going back out that night to do it again.

  8. One day those who Love the Lord God Almighty will truly see His Heart without the mirror of sin and satan(including all that belong to his ways).
    Isaiah 26:8
    Yes, LORD, walking in the way of your laws, we wait for you; your name and renown are the desire of our hearts.

    Love, a four letter word, yet undescribable!
    Even backsliding doesn't describe Gods loving mercy through Christ Jesus, yet I know the backsliders way, although I turned my back on my Lord Jesus, I chose to through being deceived and my desires, yet when I truly had enough and cried for Jesus to help, He came to me and helped to turn me around, if you could see His Love for me in His Eyes, truly you would know this love that burns from Thy Fathers' Heart.
    Yes, I needed to be cleaned up again, yet my first cleaning was not by my hands, yet by Christ Hands. When He cleaned me, it began in my heart, I still heard Him whispering to me, yet I was grieving Thy Spirit of the Lord. There are many who have not received Jesus in their hearts, only a mind thing for them, it has to be in our hearts.
    Although I was missing out on many more blessings and His peacefulness, I was saved kind of like this; if I had a clean rag in a soapy bucket and used it to clean some dirt from something, this dirt would be in the rag, but the soapy solution would still be in it working on the dirt, the longer in the dirt, the deeper the stain and the deeper Jesus would need to penetrate into our hearts, to clean us.
    The back slider must have truly have received Christ Jesus in their heart, other wise what did they back slide from, Jesus is the only way out of sin and the only Detergent I know will cleanse my sins! Thank You Lord Jesus!
  9. Really enjoyed this.

    In Revelation 3, the messages to the Churches, one of the verses read like this, "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; ".

    I would think that the backslider must still be repentant and not continually sinning and assuming that all is okay, even when they continually live in sin, just because at some point they accepted Christ. That makes them dead in Christ.

    He wrote the name in the book, but can also blot it out. What do you think?
  10. #10 shipwrecksoul, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
    My bad vs the Lords call and power.

    Veracity said,
    In Revelation 3, the messages to the Churches, one of the verses read like this, "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, *and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life*; ".

    I would think that the backslider must still be repentant and not continually sinning and assuming that all is okay, even when they continually live in sin, just because at some point they accepted Christ. That makes them dead in Christ.

    He wrote the name in the book, but can also blot it out. What do you think?

    Shipwrecksoul says,
    Hey I do not have much to say but I am willing to give it a try here, with Gods help.
    **He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out, He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out, He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out, He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out, He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out, He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out, He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out, He puts your name in the book and then he blots it out*** DO YOU GET IT? Where is your and my atonement? In us being GOOD? Noooo. In us acting right? Noooo, In the atoning work of the beloved Son Jesus who paid the price with his life? Yeess. God’s word speaks to us believers,
    1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it
    2Th 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and keep you from evil.
    ---For those who believe you can loose your salvation are you telling me that Jesus is unfaithful?---
    2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. ---Do we ride on the winds of Grace with our faithfulness or the Lords?---
    We know this last verse is not to the non repentant person who is not born again. Basically pagans. Who does it refer to? Hmmmmm, You and me brothers and sisters. Born again by the blood of God’s son Jesus. We were convicted of our sin before God repented and placed our faith in Jesus. PRAISE GOD for his endearing everlasting love in the promise of his word to never leave us nor forsake us. That’s in the bible too you know.

  11. #11 Coconut, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
    Rom 3:3 What if some of them were unfaithful? Their unfaithfulness cannot cancel God's faithfulness, can it?
    Rom 3:4 Of course not! God is true, even if everyone else is a liar. As it is written, "You are right when you speak, and win your case when you go into court."
    Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to confirm God's righteousness, what can we say? God is not unrighteous when he vents his wrath on us, is he? (I am talking in human terms.)
    Rom 3:6 Of course not! Otherwise, how could God judge the world?
    Rom 3:7 For if through my falsehood God's truthfulness increases to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
    Rom 3:8 Or can we say-as some people slander us by claiming that we say-"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved!
    Rom 3:9 What, then, does this mean? Are we Jews any better off? Not at all! For we have already accused everyone, both Jews and Greeks, of being under the power of sin.
    Rom 3:10 As it is written, "Not even one person is righteous.
    Rom 3:11 No one understands. No one searches for God.
    Rom 3:12 All have turned away. Together they have become worthless. No one shows kindness, not even one person!
    Rom 3:13 Their throats are open graves. With their tongues they practice deception. The venom of poisonous snakes is under their lips.
    Rom 3:14 Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.
    Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood.
    Rom 3:16 Ruin and misery mark their ways.
    Rom 3:17 They have not learned the path to peace.
    Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes."
    Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says applies to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
    Rom 3:20 Therefore, no human being will be justified in God's sight by means of the works prescribed by the law, for through the law comes the full knowledge of sin.
    Rom 3:21 But now, apart from the law, God's righteousness is revealed and is attested by the Law and the Prophets-
    Rom 3:22 God's righteousness through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction,
    Rom 3:23 since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory.
    Rom 3:24 By his grace they are justified freely through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
    Rom 3:25 whom God offered as a place where atonement by Christ's blood could occur through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because he had waited patiently to deal with sins committed in the past.
    Rom 3:26 He wanted to demonstrate at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies the person who has the faithfulness of Jesus.
    Rom 3:27 What, then, is there to boast about? That has been eliminated. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on the principle of faith.
    Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works prescribed by the law.
  12. PS

    For the backslider to loose his salvation he would need right now to go to heaven and destroy all the streets of Gold. Then when he is finished doing that bad go and take on and eliminate all the angels at Holy God's command. Then when he is finished eliminating all the angels He would then have to take on God himself.

    If you could do all these things I still would not believe you could loose your salvation!
  13. #13 Coconut, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
    The best PS I ever read shipwreck

    1Co 3:9 For we are God's co-workers. You are God's farmland and God's building.
    1Co 3:10 As an expert builder using the grace that God gave me, I laid the foundation, and someone else is building on it. But each person must be careful how he builds on it.
    1Co 3:11 After all, no one can lay any other foundation than the one that is already laid, and that is Jesus Christ.
    1Co 3:12 Whether a person builds on this foundation with gold, silver, expensive stones, wood, hay, or straw,
    1Co 3:13 the workmanship of each person will become evident, for the day will show what it is, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.
    1Co 3:14 If what a person has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
    1Co 3:15 If his work is burned up, he will suffer loss. However, he himself will be saved, but it will be like going through fire.
    1Co 3:16 You know that you are God's sanctuary and that God's Spirit lives in you, don't you?
    1Co 3:17 If anyone destroys God's sanctuary, God will destroy him, for God's sanctuary is holy. And you are that sanctuary!

    Some quote this passage as to be talking about meats and drinks, or even suicide...but Scripture attests this is speaking expressly about sexual immorality:

    1Co 6:9 You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,
    1Co 6:10 thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    1Co 6:11 That is what some of you were! But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
    1Co 6:12 Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is helpful. Everything is permissible for me, but I will not allow anything to control me.
    1Co 6:13 Food is for the stomach, and the stomach is for food, but God will put an end to both of them. The body is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
    1Co 6:14 God raised the Lord, and by his power he will also raise us.
    1Co 6:15 You know that your bodies are parts of Christ, don't you? Should I take the parts of Christ and make them parts of a prostitute? Certainly not!
    1Co 6:16 You know that the person who unites himself with a prostitute becomes one body with her, don't you? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."
    1Co 6:17 But the person who unites himself with the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
    1Co 6:18 Keep on running away from sexual immorality. Any other sin that a person commits is outside his body, but the person who sins sexually sins against his own body.
    1Co 6:19 You know that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God, don't you? You do not belong to yourselves,
    1Co 6:20 because you were bought for a price. Therefore, glorify God with your bodies.

  14. WOW!! You sure got that copy and paste down!!

    It also says on that day to many He will say 'I never knew you'. I am sure that you have an opinion on this also, but I was asking Chad.

    Shipwrecksoul....what do you think of the following?:confused2:

    2 Peter 2

    1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
    4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

    12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

    18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

    We all sin, who are we, mere creation to assume we can say, "I believe therefore I will stay in Gods forgivness, even if I sin continually".?

    How about this:

    A Christian is under the blood of Christ, saved by grace, He/she has accepted the terms, which is to belive,repent and turn from sin. and turn from sin, and turn from sin.

    Unfortunately when temptation comes, they fall into sin, they fall into sin, they fall into sin, they fall into sin, then they just stay there in sin and say, "once saved always saved".

    Where does the power of the blood go? Where does the wrath of God go? What are they to the world except just another vomit eating dog? Where is God's Glory?

    God knows the heart, He loves the broken and contrite. Someone who continues to be a backslider is disrespecting the very cross that saved them.

    Jesus will forgive us over and over, but like I pointed out, He knows the heart, and can see through someone who is leaning on this once saved always saved doctrine.

    God is a Holy God! He is coming for a church without spot or blemish, not a bride who yanks her dress down at the last second!!! (sorry, maybe too descriptive)

    He does not want a bride who cheats on Him as she pleases.

    Thank God for His mercy and understanding, He has experienced our temptations and has overcome them. Why then would anyone find acceptance that returning to sin is going to be ok?

    On that day, He could very well blot out that name from the book, just once is all it takes.
  15. #15 shipwrecksoul, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
    Who's on first?

    Dear Veracity,
    When God speaks of love what is he really saying? When he speaks of false prophets, are they false? What is false? Are they born again? Is a false prophet a man full of the Spirit of God? False would tell me that he is not, does it tell you that. False follows destructive ways! False follows destructive heresies. People will follow false because of the god of this world, the devil. God is good he does not give evil gifts! A false prophet does not receive a good gift. But I commend you for knowing about manipulators and people who try to make it as if they are it. Tell me what is a false prophet? By your understanding and not jargon. I understand an intellectual argument in which people try to reason their cause in proclaiming a position based on not understanding a simple word false? Hey thanks for the compliment on copy and paste.. But my position is based on the power of God almighty not on the position of my wisdom. Hey believe it or not God has helped me to make this transparent in relating to you. And maybe God will help you make it transarent to me based off of his good intention through Jesus Christ. Who am I? But I am not in the brain washing program but only in the honesty for Gods power to save, he saved me and I love him. I fail him as well because of my nature (carnal), do you fail God? Do you admit your failure? It’s in our nature? But our new nature is to please him because we have the mind of Christ (spiritual) someone that you may know had the same problem a man named Peter. Do you know about him, sorry. Hey thanks for being honest in your expression of your position. At the end of the day we will all stand before God. His name happens to be Jesus for me and others who face him will not know him that’s why God will say depart from me I knew you not!
    The conclusion a false prophet is a false prophet.
    A born again man is born again by the power of God. No ands ifs or buts, Its God and God alone period end of story fini. Hey did you ever check out my blog? If you have not already the address can be found by clicking on my avatar and going to my home page.
  16. #16 shipwrecksoul, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
    Ps. No Opinion but what God says plainly

    Ps. No Opinion but what God says plainly in his word for us. Thats why its called grace!

    Thanks for quoting only a third of what was written by me. I am honored.

    One of my greatest trivias questions is ---what Godly man if not the Godliness did not know the bridegroom, did not know Jesus? Email me with the answer ok dear Veracity.
  17. Dear Veracity here...(?)

    Hey believe it or not God has helped me to make this transparent in relating to you. And maybe God will help you make it transarent to me based off of his good intention through Jesus Christ.

    You say this is supposed to be transparent? In relating to me?

    Brick wall...not see get you...

    My understanding??? This is just me...I live everyday in appreciation and thanks, repenting as I go for as little as a idle cross word etc. I want to be in the will of God for my life...because it depends on it.

    If I turn my back...(I am not talking about the nature of the flesh, which is to sin), I am talking about walking away, running away, disregarding God's care, feelings, judgment, wrath, and purposly going into a day to sin, as the backslider does.

    If I turn from the Lord...and live like He owes me something, like forever salvation, I would be presumtuous thinking He said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you", so therefore I have so much liberty in Christ I can disregard His blood having been shed to save me from sin.

    Backsliders do not repent with a whole heart...period. It crosses there mind..."Hmmm...I need to get back in the good graces of the Lord", and yet they go on in sin until they think of it again. Which, by the way would indeed be the love of God reaching out to them. So if they get hit by a bus, having rejected God gentle calling for the umpteenth time, they wake up on Jesus knee being lavished with love?

    What does that do to the gospel? What was the purpose then of the cross? What does that do then to fight the good fight...putting on the whole armor of God...oh well except for you's all good.

    If there are people comfortable thinking they can sin constantly without repentance, more power to them..I can't. for the riddle...gimme a hint:wink:

    Hmm, same page different letters? Same book different chapter? Same God, different convictions?
  18. #18 shipwrecksoul, Oct 20, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
    Dear Veracity

    [FONT=&quot]Dear Veracity,
    The only thing I was most inspired by was I did not read in your reply that u love God in your response to his love. In being legitimately born again one knows the lords love and responds to it. This is my hope. Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    May God fill u and me with his will!

  19. Backsliders, saved or lost?

    This is a very important point. True backsliders; those who take the message of the gospel into their heart-of-hearts where it begins to take root and then are lured back toward the world, are like fish who take the bait deep into their mouths and try to run with it. Eventually the appeal of running - the appeal of the world - grows dim and they get weary. The Great Fisherman pulls back on the rod, sets the hook, and reels them in to make their salvation complete (see Php 2:12-13).


  20. I am sorry Shipwrecksoul...I guess I am just not quite grasping what you are saying.

    You were inspired by thinking I don't love God???

    I thought we were talking about whether backsliders will be able to somehow slide into heaven, even though they remain backsliders. I was just sharing that I think backsliders are just that, backsliders. I have been one of those at one time, and I think if the Lord had come, or I had met the end of my days, I would have gone to hell. Thank God He gave me good ears to hear when He called me back.

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