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Are you scared of God?

Active
I think we should be very scared of God,
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.​
(1 John 4:18 KJV)​

Rhema
 
Member

Rad

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.(1 John 4:18 KJV)
do you not fear Gods judgment on the sins you commit, and continue to commit, Sins of wealth and comfort, of profiting from and belonging to nations that use their wealth and power to oppress, exploit and destroy others to maintain their position of pre-eminence, and whose addiction to the burning of fossil fuels has brought Gods creation to the brink of destruction , how can we claim to have "perfect Love" when our lives our built upon the death and suffering of millions of Men, Women and Children in some of the poorest countries on Earth?,..... do you not fear that?.
 
Member

Rad

How can i fear my dad, unless im doing something wrong
I think we're ALL doing something wrong Bill,...... the question is are we asking forgiveness for that wrong and are we going to stop doing it, from what ive seen the answer is NO on both counts, .... so yeh, we should be very scared of the Judgement God is going to inflict on us, very scared indeed.
 
Active
do you not fear Gods judgment on the sins you commit, and continue to commit, Sins of wealth and comfort, of profiting from and belonging to nations that use their wealth and power to oppress, exploit and destroy others to maintain their position of pre-eminence, and whose addiction to the burning of fossil fuels has brought Gods creation to the brink of destruction , how can we claim to have "perfect Love" when our lives our built upon the death and suffering of millions of Men, Women and Children in some of the poorest countries on Earth?,..... do you not fear that?.
You seem full of fear, Rad.

And you have no standing to declare that I continue to commit sins.

So, in truth, you are rejecting the scripture that I posted, (because that's all I posted).

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.​

Rhema

(Who has tormented you so ??)
 
Member
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.​
(1 John 4:18 KJV)​

Rhema
Fear is not the single faceted emotion and there lies the problem with this discussion. I loved my Dad as deeply as I, logically, should have loved my Birth-Father. But I had neither respect, love nor fear of Joseph C. Taylor, the drunk down on Skid Row. Howard J. Bennett on the other hand I loved and love, even in death. I also respect his wisdom that he taught me and I have lived my life in fear of dishonoring him. That is the same love, respect, and fear each and every one of us should have for YHWH, Yashua ha'Mashiah, and Ruah, our Triune Elohim.
 
Member

Rad

You seem full of fear, Rad.

And you have no standing to declare that I continue to commit sins.

So, in truth, you are rejecting the scripture that I posted, (because that's all I posted).

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.​

Rhema

(Who has tormented you so ??)
youre right Rhema, i have no right to accuse you of things i know nothing about, i apologise unreservedly, what i should have said was, those of us that live comfortable, rich lives in the wealthy and powerful nations of this World, those that enjoy the benefits of an oppressive and unjust economic and political system that condemns hundreds of millions of people to a life of suffering and premature death, those of us that through our lifestyle have brought Gods creation to the brink of destruction , should fear Gods judgement, to target you personally when i know nothing of your situation was wrong, and i apologise again,...... and i wasnt rejecting the scripture, just pointing out that many of us are committing sins that we seem to not recognise as sin, we therefore ask no forgiveness and consequently fail to change our ways, .... and yes i am fearful of the judgement to come, but its not born out of fear of God, for i see him as merciful and just, but rather an understanding, gained from 40 years campaigning in this world, of the many horrors that we are complicit in , that we either ignore or just dont care enough about, that i believe will lead to a terrible condemnation.
 
Active
i apologise unreservedly,
Apology accepted brother. I understand the temptation to paint with broad brushstrokes.

... and i wasnt rejecting the scripture, just pointing out that many of us are committing sins that we seem to not recognise as sin,
And yet each of us is at a different point along our journey into Sanctification, and we all rely upon the Holy Spirit to provide specific immediate guidance for what we as individuals do.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.​
(Ezekiel 18:20 KJV)​

The iniquity of the nation is not upon my head. Their wickedness is upon them.

The ways of the Lord shall preserve me.

Rhema

I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.​
(John 17:15-17 KJV)​
 
Active
youre right Rhema, i have no right to accuse you of things i know nothing about, i apologise unreservedly, what i should have said was, those of us that live comfortable, rich lives in the wealthy and powerful nations of this World, those that enjoy the benefits of an oppressive and unjust economic and political system that condemns hundreds of millions of people to a life of suffering and premature death, those of us that through our lifestyle have brought Gods creation to the brink of destruction , should fear Gods judgement, to target you personally when i know nothing of your situation was wrong, and i apologise again,...... and i wasnt rejecting the scripture, just pointing out that many of us are committing sins that we seem to not recognise as sin, we therefore ask no forgiveness and consequently fail to change our ways, .... and yes i am fearful of the judgement to come, but its not born out of fear of God, for i see him as merciful and just, but rather an understanding, gained from 40 years campaigning in this world, of the many horrors that we are complicit in , that we either ignore or just dont care enough about, that i believe will lead to a terrible condemnation.
A question

When Adam and Eve were in the Garden , naked . Did God see it as wrong ?

Those who live in countries , oblivious to all else , are not held accountable . But those who know what they are doing are held accountable
 
Active
Fear is not the single faceted emotion and there lies the problem with this discussion. I loved my Dad as deeply as I, logically, should have loved my Birth-Father. But I had neither respect, love nor fear of Joseph C. Taylor, the drunk down on Skid Row. Howard J. Bennett on the other hand I loved and love, even in death. I also respect his wisdom that he taught me and I have lived my life in fear of dishonoring him. That is the same love, respect, and fear each and every one of us should have for YHWH, Yashua ha'Mashiah, and Ruah, our Triune Elohim.
You should still love your birth father , no matter what . At least forgive him
 
Active
youre right Rhema, i have no right to accuse you of things i know nothing about, i apologise unreservedly, what i should have said was, those of us that live comfortable, rich lives in the wealthy and powerful nations of this World, those that enjoy the benefits of an oppressive and unjust economic and political system that condemns hundreds of millions of people to a life of suffering and premature death, those of us that through our lifestyle have brought Gods creation to the brink of destruction , should fear Gods judgement, to target you personally when i know nothing of your situation was wrong, and i apologise again,...... and i wasnt rejecting the scripture, just pointing out that many of us are committing sins that we seem to not recognise as sin, we therefore ask no forgiveness and consequently fail to change our ways, .... and yes i am fearful of the judgement to come, but its not born out of fear of God, for i see him as merciful and just, but rather an understanding, gained from 40 years campaigning in this world, of the many horrors that we are complicit in , that we either ignore or just dont care enough about, that i believe will lead to a terrible condemnation.
Do not be afraid of the judgement to come . Rather , live your life in love.
 
Member

Rad

@Rhema


Rad said:
... and i wasnt rejecting the scripture, just pointing out that many of us are committing sins that we seem to not recognise as sin,
And yet each of us is at a different point along our journey into Sanctification, and we all rely upon the Holy Spirit to provide specific immediate guidance for what we as individuals do.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.(Ezekiel 18:20 KJV)
The iniquity of the nation is not upon my head. Their wickedness is upon them.

The ways of the Lord shall preserve me.
Thats an interesting position, so how long do you think God will give us on our "Journey to Sanctification", given Christs words in Matthew 7vs 21-29,
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

I see the Sermon on the Mount as the "Blueprint" for my life as a follower of Christ, and the lives of most Christians ive met who live in the rich and Powerful countries of Gods World seem to have little or nothing in common with Christs teachings of Compassion, Justice and Mercy, so i still believe that we need to fear Gods Judgement if we continue to live the way we are.
And i would also add that "The iniquity of the Nation is upon our head," if we profit from and build our lives upon the proceeds of Oppression, Exploitation, destruction, suffering and death which are inflicted on Billions of men, women and children every day by this evil and unjust economic system that we benefit so much from.



 
Member

Rad

A question

When Adam and Eve were in the Garden , naked . Did God see it as wrong ?

Those who live in countries , oblivious to all else , are not held accountable . But those who know what they are doing are held accountable
No he didnt, but in this age of computers, 24 hour news, a mass of information at your fingertips, will ignorance be a valid defence, i think not, how many of have not seen the pictures of fire and destruction of war spread across Gods world, of refugees fleeing everything they know in search of safety, of skeletal children searching in the dust for a few grains to stave off starvation, and how many of us ask why, why is this happening and what part , if any do i have in it, why do i have so much while others have so little, why are people scrambling for COVID vaccines in poor countries yet in mine Governments are begging their citizens to get vaccinated, The question i believe is that its not we dont know, its that we dont care enough to find out, because if we did then our whole lives would have to change, ignorance might be bliss at the moment, but when we stand in front of God will it be a reason why we did so little when we could have done so much, i dont believe it will.
 
Active
Thats an interesting position, so how long do you think God will give us on our "Journey to Sanctification",
Our entire life.

But it's a question of moving forward, not an issue of we have X years to "get it right." And my apologies, it would have been better for me to write "Journey through Sanctification" rather than "into." To one, overcoming alcoholism is the most important thing that God would address in a person's life - to another, that he stop beating his wife. And for some, mistaking a spirit of poverty for holiness would need to be resolved (and quickly at that). For each of us there is a key sin that God would have us overcome in the "Now," and once achieved, to move forward, dealing with the next sin. The question we would ask ourselves is, are we moving forward?

Jesus gave a parable about not moving forward, or not growing in the ways that we as believers are to behave.

He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.​
(Luke 13:6-9 KJV)​

A literalist would argue that we have only four years to make progress in dealing with our infirmities - that which we lack in the character of Christ. I would argue that the end comes when we stop trying.

Maybe there are some believers who have progressed to a point where God would indeed have them engage on a global scale. Lester Sumrall comes to mind. And one cannot fault North Point Community Church for having shepherded a program that distributed $8.5 million US dollars in aid to the needy this last year and over 26,000 hours in volunteer service. But for the most part, we need to clean up the mess that is in front of us - the mess within our own personal life - before we could even begin to think about "national sins" (if there actually even is such a thing under the New Covenant). A new proverb I give unto you (maybe "recent" is better, and I shouldn't take credit, but ...) --- Beware the naked man who offers you the shirt off his back.

I see the Sermon on the Mount as the "Blueprint" for my life as a follower of Christ,
And well it should. The Sermon on the Mount IS the Gospel of Jesus, and should be the core belief of every disciple. And once these things are established in our lives, we can move on to deal with progressively larger social issues.

the lives of most Christians I've met who live in the rich and Powerful countries of Gods World seem to have little or nothing in common with Christs teachings of Compassion, Justice and Mercy,
Well then one could hardly consider them Christian, now, could one... To me, the word "Christian" is largely worthless. And I would not be surprised that at one point you would think me to not be a Christian, and you may be surprised to find that I might think your Christian foundation has a fatal flaw. But no, the sin of my neighbor, whether individual or collective, does not attach to me.

so i still believe that we need to fear Gods Judgement if we continue to live the way we are.
Well then you should stop beating your wife.... ( I JEST... I jest).

The problem I have with your statement, though, is how should one manage the "we" ?? What should be changed? And then how? Can the "Compassion, Justice and Mercy" of Christ be codified into a statement of behaviour that we should then legislate? To some extent (theft, murder) it is. But the Great Risk is to think that Sanctification can be imposed from without by the tools of a legal system - and BOOM we just turned Jesus into the LAW - a Jesaic Law. Yet from what I understand, the "Compassion, Justice and Mercy" of Christ is to come from an internal spiritual transformation.

I myself don't need a law telling me not to murder. I don't murder because the spirit of murder is not within me. I don't need a law telling me not to steal. The spirit of theft is not within me. When my spirit within is transformed, I need no external law at all. And it's likely that we agree on much that I'm writing here... However, it's likely that I see God's judgment somewhat differently. The judgement of God is coded into the system. Smoke? -> lung cancer. Drive faster than one's car or one's reflexes can handle? -> death and carnage on the highway. A liter of soda a day? -> diabetes. Living in fear? -> PTSD consequences.

For the locale of California USA, ... fail to manage dead wood adequately? -> massive forest fires started by the poorly designed electrical distribution grid. In other words, God's judgement is already present within the consequences of one's actions.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​
(John 3:18 KJV)​

George Carlin once quipped - "Just think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of all people are stupider." (And yes, I know he's talking about the mean, but mathematicians should stop destroying the humor.) And this is the problem with socialism - stupid people gain power and destroy society. (Sorry, I'm sliding into political commentary, and so shall try to get back on point.)

And i would also add that "The iniquity of the Nation is upon our head,"
No it isn't. You're creating sin where there is none, inventing an eleventh commandment.

if we profit from and build our lives upon the proceeds of Oppression, Exploitation, destruction, suffering and death which are inflicted on Billions of men, women and children every day by this evil and unjust economic system that we benefit so much from.
Where does God (under the new covenant) ever condemn us with the sin of "Guilt by Association" ?? I would suggest that one be careful about accusing the brethren. You seem to think that the followers of Christ are of the world if they are merely in the world.

Rhema

PS: (And I'm one of the few who actually understands Piketty.)

PPS:
And Jabez was more honourable than his brethren: and his mother called his name Jabez, saying, Because I bare him with sorrow. And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.​
(1 Chronicles 4:9-10 KJV)​

I get the impression that you might have some issues with the prosperity and wealth of Jabez.
 
Active
Our entire life.

But it's a question of moving forward, not an issue of we have X years to "get it right." And my apologies, it would have been better for me to write "Journey through Sanctification" rather than "into." To one, overcoming alcoholism is the most important thing that God would address in a person's life - to another, that he stop beating his wife. And for some, mistaking a spirit of poverty for holiness would need to be resolved (and quickly at that). For each of us there is a key sin that God would have us overcome in the "Now," and once achieved, to move forward, dealing with the next sin. The question we would ask ourselves is, are we moving forward?

Jesus gave a parable about not moving forward, or not growing in the ways that we as believers are to behave.

He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.​
(Luke 13:6-9 KJV)​

A literalist would argue that we have only four years to make progress in dealing with our infirmities - that which we lack in the character of Christ. I would argue that the end comes when we stop trying.

Maybe there are some believers who have progressed to a point where God would indeed have them engage on a global scale. Lester Sumrall comes to mind. And one cannot fault North Point Community Church for having shepherded a program that distributed $8.5 million US dollars in aid to the needy this last year and over 26,000 hours in volunteer service. But for the most part, we need to clean up the mess that is in front of us - the mess within our own personal life - before we could even begin to think about "national sins" (if there actually even is such a thing under the New Covenant). A new proverb I give unto you (maybe "recent" is better, and I shouldn't take credit, but ...) --- Beware the naked man who offers you the shirt off his back.


And well it should. The Sermon on the Mount IS the Gospel of Jesus, and should be the core belief of every disciple. And once these things are established in our lives, we can move on to deal with progressively larger social issues.


Well then one could hardly consider them Christian, now, could one... To me, the word "Christian" is largely worthless. And I would not be surprised that at one point you would think me to not be a Christian, and you may be surprised to find that I might think your Christian foundation has a fatal flaw. But no, the sin of my neighbor, whether individual or collective, does not attach to me.


Well then you should stop beating your wife.... ( I JEST... I jest).

The problem I have with your statement, though, is how should one manage the "we" ?? What should be changed? And then how? Can the "Compassion, Justice and Mercy" of Christ be codified into a statement of behaviour that we should then legislate? To some extent (theft, murder) it is. But the Great Risk is to think that Sanctification can be imposed from without by the tools of a legal system - and BOOM we just turned Jesus into the LAW - a Jesaic Law. Yet from what I understand, the "Compassion, Justice and Mercy" of Christ is to come from an internal spiritual transformation.

I myself don't need a law telling me not to murder. I don't murder because the spirit of murder is not within me. I don't need a law telling me not to steal. The spirit of theft is not within me. When my spirit within is transformed, I need no external law at all. And it's likely that we agree on much that I'm writing here... However, it's likely that I see God's judgment somewhat differently. The judgement of God is coded into the system. Smoke? -> lung cancer. Drive faster than one's car or one's reflexes can handle? -> death and carnage on the highway. A liter of soda a day? -> diabetes. Living in fear? -> PTSD consequences.

For the locale of California USA, ... fail to manage dead wood adequately? -> massive forest fires started by the poorly designed electrical distribution grid. In other words, God's judgement is already present within the consequences of one's actions.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​
(John 3:18 KJV)​

George Carlin once quipped - "Just think about how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of all people are stupider." (And yes, I know he's talking about the mean, but mathematicians should stop destroying the humor.) And this is the problem with socialism - stupid people gain power and destroy society. (Sorry, I'm sliding into political commentary, and so shall try to get back on point.)


No it isn't. You're creating sin where there is none, inventing an eleventh commandment.


Where does God (under the new covenant) ever condemn us with the sin of "Guilt by Association" ?? I would suggest that one be careful about accusing the brethren. You seem to think that the followers of Christ are of the world if they are merely in the world.

Rhema

PS: (And I'm one of the few who actually understands Piketty.)

PPS:
And Jabez was more honourable than his brethren: and his mother called his name Jabez, saying, Because I bare him with sorrow. And Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, Oh that thou wouldest bless me indeed, and enlarge my coast, and that thine hand might be with me, and that thou wouldest keep me from evil, that it may not grieve me! And God granted him that which he requested.​
(1 Chronicles 4:9-10 KJV)​

I get the impression that you might have some issues with the prosperity and wealth of Jabez.
You are so mean . Lol . ( beating your wife )

But you are right on . We are not Guilty by association.

I never voted these yahoo's into office ( USA )
 
Loyal
But i dont fear the Lord , that is just it . How can i fear what i love

thats interesting,, you should fear God to help kill your fleshly desires ,,,is the way I look at it. I love God with all my heart might and strength, yet I know what awaits those that disobey God and that brings fear into my bones.

I see it as if you do not fear God, you may not fear sinning. The fear of God keeps us from sinning.

So yes I fear God and Love God all at the same time. The word of God tells us

I believe the fear of God is a healthy thing in the way to avoid SIN !!

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
 
Active
thats interesting,, you should fear God to help kill your fleshly desires ,,,is the way I look at it. I love God with all my heart might and strength, yet I know what awaits those that disobey God and that brings fear into my bones.

I see it as if you do not fear God, you may not fear sinning. The fear of God keeps us from sinning.

So yes I fear God and Love God all at the same time. The word of God tells us

I believe the fear of God is a healthy thing in the way to avoid SIN !!

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Somewhere in this post i stat
thats interesting,, you should fear God to help kill your fleshly desires ,,,is the way I look at it. I love God with all my heart might and strength, yet I know what awaits those that disobey God and that brings fear into my bones.

I see it as if you do not fear God, you may not fear sinning. The fear of God keeps us from sinning.

So yes I fear God and Love God all at the same time. The word of God tells us

I believe the fear of God is a healthy thing in the way to avoid SIN !!

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
My friend David what keeps you from swearing at your mother. I will answer those for you the thought of doing so no never even occurs in your mind.

The same is true in my relationship with God setting does not even a firm in my mind.

Have you ever wondered at the phrase where are John is talking about the two witnesses any states that they will cause every plague as often as they wish. It's that part of the scripture that says as often as they wish that caught my attention

Here we find two people that do not have to ask God for permission to do any of the plagues to do anyting because they've already gotten permission to do all these things as often as they wish.

I asked the Lord one time why you chose me to do this his response was I trust you. That phrase I trust you means more to me than almost anything else

So when I tell you that I love God it really means that he is the center of my heart

I think there is something that needs to be said here as far as fearing God because the correct translation of that is not fear as something I would be afraid of but respecting God and I have a ton of respect for God
 

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