Are we in the final days?

[Thorwald]

We see the disasters increasing throughout the world. These include natural disasters, economic turmoil, destruction of Christianity, growth of Islam extremism, and so on.

We see the United States' influence throughout the world, being eroded. Her Allies, are facing great economic problems, leaving very little room for 'policing the world'. It appears that the whole world has become a 'melting pot', heading for a very negative 'climax'.

Christian values/beliefs have become seriously eroded. Laws being instituted, are trending towards ungodliness, at an ever-increasing rate.

The scriptures tell us, that we will return to the days of Noah. It appears to me, that this 'return' is escalating at a phenomenal rate.

What is your view on the 'above'? THANKS.

 

[Puddleglum]

We see the disasters increasing throughout the world. These include natural disasters, economic turmoil, destruction of Christianity, growth of Islam extremism, and so on.

We see the United States' influence throughout the world, being eroded. Her Allies, are facing great economic problems, leaving very little room for 'policing the world'. It appears that the whole world has become a 'melting pot', heading for a very negative 'climax'.

Christian values/beliefs have become seriously eroded. Laws being instituted, are trending towards ungodliness, at an ever-increasing rate.

The scriptures tell us, that we will return to the days of Noah. It appears to me, that this 'return' is escalating at a phenomenal rate.

What is your view on the 'above'? THANKS.

Yes it sure does look that way as people turn away from Jesus Christ and back to there own vomit so to speak.
When we turn our back to God we have no hope, but a poor sub human position of being just like slaves and we remember that Holy Moses was the one who dealt with that position. to bring us out of such a ungodly life.
All nations fall due to lack of guidance in the true foundations of reality.
People like to live a lie, due to the stain of original Sin working in us and that being a powerful force and if it's not dealt with by truly repenting of our Sin, we have no hope. as it is a failure of guidance in the Holy Spirit working in you.. as Christ said you can do nothing at all in our own works as all is in vain, but only through him will you have life abundantly. and abundantly is not about money.
So this is what the NWO and PC is all about. as it's a worldly work as the fact is it will fail miserably. if you think Hitler was bad just you wait and see how evil this lot truly are.
Satan is not truly seen so much as a bad thing in the view of a dilettante as one can only see things with lack of depth. as Satan can come across as admirable and all but he leads one astray in truth. bewitched is what he does, not straight out evil. as that is what he get you to do and that way he works.
Satan has a whole bag of tools to lead you away from your Salvation and OSAS is just one of them.

 

[jari]

nah there's no way you can tell we are anymore in the last days than we were 2000 years ago. what we see today is the ideality of our world in turmoil but the world it self hasn't changed. it has always been warry with its "problems". there's a saying that one who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it's errors. this is true for christians who think world is going to end when there's war somewhere. world has always been full of wars it's just that today those wars are shown to us through the media. making them look big but it depends how you look at them whether they are big or not.


anyway i think during world war 2 many people thought the world was going to end because what we see today when compared to that is nothing but petty clashes. And like Jesus says " for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. " - Mat 24:6. still no one knows the hour when Lord returns. i believe the anti-christ will come first with the mark like in book of revelations.

 

[David777]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (falling away)
comes first, and the man of lawlessness (antichrist) is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

There are two clear conditions that must be fulfilled before Jesus returns.
The antichrist must be revealed and the great falling away must occur.

 

[Acebopata]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (falling away)
comes first, and the man of lawlessness (antichrist) is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

There are two clear conditions that must be fulfilled before Jesus returns.
The antichrist must be revealed and the great falling away must occur.

Exactly, however, the Antichrist must be revealed, it doesn't necessarily say come to world-wide power. Some would take this to mean that the antichrist must be in power before the rapture, others will take it that we will know quite some time in advance who the anti-christ is before he comes to power as the world dictator.

 

[jari]

Exactly, however, the Antichrist must be revealed, it doesn't necessarily say come to world-wide power. Some would take this to mean that the antichrist must be in power before the rapture, others will take it that we will know quite some time in advance who the anti-christ is before he comes to power as the world dictator.

the same man of lawlesness will be destroyed at the day of the Lord (when Jesus comes). (Verse 8.)

so we know antichrist reign will be before rapture until to the rapture.

 

[Trisha]

Jari the rapture could happen anytime, but the lawless one is revealed before Jesus actually touches down on earth at the end. In the rapture no one will know about Jesus comingto get us who isn't a Christian. One will go with him and one will be left standing here scratching their head.
The neighbor to neighbor and personal sin is worse, like in the days of Noah. People take offense if you even look at them the wrong way. Sin abounds like in Sodom, gays are given the right to marry and the lifestyle is accepted by many. Babies are killed in abortions because the woman has the right to have it done. It is the highest cause of death right now in Canada. And most of all, God has been thrown out and replaced by things that end in death, that are pointless and selfish. I think it is all going down again as in the days of Noah. When the rapture will be I have no idea because none of us do. We are told to look for the signs and when we see them our lift off from this earth is drawing nigh. Then even more chaos will be left as people panic from the aftermath of that. Then they will "drown" as in the days of Noah, we will be in the "ark" and they will be outside dying.

 

[jari]

Jari the rapture could happen anytime, but the lawless one is revealed before Jesus actually touches down on earth at the end.

trisha that doesn't make too much sense. the Lord's not going to peak at earth from skies. there's only one day Jesus comes back, not two. it's the unbiblical view of pretrib believers that believe Lord has so much business on earth that He just comes and goes...


There's the day of the Lord, not days of the Lord...

keep that one in mind..



God bless

 

[DutchChristian]

Many do not understand that we are in it until the end (if we are still alive around that time when the anti christ is there (= instead of Christ), he who will pretend to be God and the Messiah himself but he is the false Jesus so to speak).

he will deceive many many people, as if he is god.

Now please know that there is really only ONE second coming and not 1 second coming plus another secret rapture event just before that, no no... because listen now and learn: the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ IS the same event in which at the so called rapture takes place: it is at that moment when the dead have risen first that those who are still alive will shortly follow in the twinkling of the eye and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Now why will we not go first? Because of this:

1 Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Many people will be unprepared and think to expect the Lord Jesus Christ any day now to come to rapture them out of the trouble before things really get's tough via the rapture, but many will be very very disappointed as they keep on waiting... Because He Will not come yet until the very end at the last trump! Remember: This is only a ONE TIME Event! and not two separate events...

Accept this sound doctrine! It is the Truth!

Again i say, and listen carefully now..:

That there is only one rapture and it is immediately after the dead rise first at the second coming of Jesus Christ which is AFTER the tribulation, at the last trump.

Hallelujah!

John 6
54 Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Luke 18
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?

it will be that severe as in the days of Noah!

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

iniquity shall be so rampant that even the love of the saints shall wax cold, do not underestimate as these are very very difficult times!

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

and much more things happening read Matthew 24.

Hallelujah!

Some people say BRING IT ON! (thinking they will escape just before the real trouble starts... via rapture) but they forget that they aren't going to be raptured out of here until the very end if they make it. Then there's the temptation of the devil deceiving you to take the mark (which you may NEVER accept, accept it = to damnation with no return) or to give reverence or worship to the devil and / or his image so that you will be cut some slack or be given so called "freedom" but this you must NEVER do! and many people pressuring you or hunting you down even family members ratting you out even brothers and sisters...


Now there are going to be people who tend to reject this here sound doctrine because in their own understanding it doesn't seem to match up with their own preconceived idea about who God is and that He is supposedly not to be like that, as He surely couldn't do such a thing... they imagine themselves. Just read what the Word of God Says Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24-27!

And be ye not one like them!

 

[Davy]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (falling away)
comes first, and the man of lawlessness (antichrist) is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

There are two clear conditions that must be fulfilled before Jesus returns.
The antichrist must be revealed and the great falling away must occur.

Hi David777: Don't forget there is also the sign Paul wrote about in 1 Thessalonians 5:3, (NRSV) which warns, "When they say, 'There is peace and security,' then sudden destruction will come upon them, as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there will be no escape!"

When governmental authorities make this cry of Peace and Security, it is like snubbing God's kingdom under Christ Jesus, as if to say, "we don't need God's kingdom, we can look after ourselves." However, this cry will be hollow and short lived, because shortly after Jesus returns to destroy all those who refuse to obey him.

 

[jari]

i agree with you dutchchristian except for being able to loose your salvation. I don't think it makes biblically any sense knowing God's characteristics from the bible and how He wishes all men to be saved that He would allow tribulation where us , His sheep could be lost . the only people who are lost are people not His sheeps.

if tribulation would cause some one to loose salvation then that would mean people who go through tribulations or persecutions would have smaller change to make it to heaven. but that would mean salvation wouldn't be free gift but of endurance so it cannot be.

Rom 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[DutchChristian]

i agree with you dutchchristian except for being able to loose your salvation. I don't think it makes biblically any sense knowing God's characteristics from the bible and how He wishes all men to be saved that He would allow tribulation where us , His sheep could be lost . the only people who are lost are people not His sheeps.

if tribulation would cause some one to loose salvation then that would mean people who go through tribulations or persecutions would have smaller change to make it to heaven. but that would mean salvation wouldn't be free gift but of endurance so it cannot be.

Rom 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hi Jari,

we do not understand all things about God.

Those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life will make it God Will See to it Himself by His Grace Hallelujah!

But we ourselves must endure until the end!

Matthew 10
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

And remember to some of the church in Sardis, Jesus Said:

Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.

Do a word search on "book of life": you will see: Rev. 21:27, 20:15.

If your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life i believe you will make it, God Knows ALL and He Has His remnant / elect.

Now consider this dear Jari:

Revelations 22
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now there is no eternal security: for them that apostatized, or blasphemed the Holy Spirit, them that take the mark of the beast or worship his image, nor for them that take away from the book of this prophecy as the Bible says it to be so.

i hope you see that this as plain and non-debateable fact. We cannot change / and should never change the meaning of the Word of GOD if it says, as an example:

Revelation 14
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So if a christian does that, it is forever lost for that person, he will perish and nothing will help him. So that alone is proof that you could lose your salvation, if you did that.

God Bless,
Dutchchristian

 

[jari]

But we ourselves must make every effort to endure until the end!

Matthew 10
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

And remember to some of the church in Sardis, Jesus Said:

Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Do a word search on "book of life": you will see: Rev 21:27; 20:15.

If your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life i believe you will make it, God Knows ALL and He Has His remnant / elect.

Now consider this dear Jari:

Revelations 22
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now there is no eternal security: for them that apostatized, or blasphemed the Holy Spirit, nor for them that take away from the book of this prophecy as the Bible says it to be so.

i don't think those verses are talking about born-again believers... becoming born again is requirement for salvation but not of self effort. it's something that must happen to all of us however. and of course it happens by faith in Jesus as your savior.
it's the faith that saves / makes you born again.

 

[DutchChristian]

i don't think those verses are talking about born-again believers...

Dear Jari,

The Lord Jesus Said these things to the disciples as you can read in Matthew 10:1-5 which is before Matthew 10:22. Now the apostles they are believers amen, you could not deny that fact Jari.

And what Jesus Said to the church in Sardis we can read again:

Revelation 3:
1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Do unbelievers have an opportunity to walk with Him in white because they have not defiled their garments and are worthy? No...

these mentioned in Revelations 3 by Jesus also are believers.

Rev. 22:19 previously had their names written in the book of life as you can read here:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

i pray that one day you will understand that a believer can lose their salvation by their own fault and not Gods!

 

[jari]

Dear Jari,

The Lord Jesus Said these things to the disciples as you can read in Matthew 10:1-5 which is before Matthew 10:22. Now the apostles they are believers amen, you could not deny that fact Jari.

And what Jesus Said to the church in Sardis we can read again:

Revelation 3:
1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Do unbelievers have an opportunity to walk with Him in white because they have not defiled their garments and are worthy? No...

these mentioned in Revelations 3 by Jesus also are believers.

Rev. 22:19 previously had their names written in the book of life as you can read here:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

i pray that one day you will understand that a believer can lose their salvation by their own fault and not Gods!

dutch, i think your making the assumption here that those verses were directed to born again believers..... we know that bibles audience in general often is both unbelievers who have come to hear the word as well as the born again believers. though disciples were believers all the rest to whom this word applies arent nessarily born again.

i would suggest you look in to the meaning of overcoming. you find the word used in other verses in book of revelation.


Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.


dutch are you God's son? are you saved?

we have overcome if we are God's children.

Joh 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Since we become believers we were sealed with God's Holy spirit:

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


so the verses about overcoming can't be really talking about born again believers then can they?

 

[Puddleglum]

I wonder why Satan even had a go at Jesus, jari.
If Satan thought he could have a go at Jesus him self, don't you think he will have at go at a born again Christian.
Born again still grow.
I thing once you think you have it in the bag that's when you can be in for a big surprise.

 

[Thorwald]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy (falling away)
comes first, and the man of lawlessness (antichrist) is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

There are two clear conditions that must be fulfilled before Jesus returns.
The antichrist must be revealed and the great falling away must occur.

What better time, for these 'final things' (above) to take place, than in our times? We seem to be moving toward one language being dominant (a reversal of the multiple languages being created during the destruction of the tower of Babel), common currencies being created, world-wide trade dependency, wars, disasters, ability to almost instantly visually communicate with anyone anywhere in the world, ability to completely destroy any nation in the world through atomic bombs, the dependency on ever-decreasing scarce resources, ability to travel anywhere in the world in a very short time, and so on.

Our laws, works, and beliefs, are very quickly undermining Christian values. Church attendance is falling, in every country. When I researched the religions of the world, and zeroed in on Christianity by country, I was amazed at how few attend church, any longer.