Are we as Christians still living under the curse,God laid on us in the Garden of Eden?

[PloughBoy]

The Punishment of Mankind

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (Genesis 3: 16-18) KJV.

 

[rhern53]

Genesis 2:7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

:for when you eat from it you will certainly die.......They ate and they died
What replace this Life(breath of life) that God had given them ?

Leviticus 17:11
11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

Was the Life from God's breath of life or was the life from the blood? ... what did Jesus have to shed in order to be resurrected.

What do Christians have to shed in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

 

[PloughBoy]

I think the post is asking a question, in line for discussion.
Are we as Christians still living under the curse,God laid on us in the Garden of Eden?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

The Punishment of Mankind

Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

There are no two ways about it childbirth is painful.
Very very painful

And in the New Testament wives are instructed to submit to their husbands


And unto Adam He said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (Genesis 3: 16-18)

Today we live in a world of pesticides, weedkillers and poor harvests.
Thinking of our little coastal area here in Australia, we struggle with invasive weeds, dry sandy soil and weather that doesn't naturally lend to good crop cultivation.

Greetings @PloughBoy

In a very practical sense those "curses" are still present in the world.
And this sinful world continues to reap the what it sows

But we have our eternal hope in Jesus

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Romans 15:4

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Titus 1:2

 

[PloughBoy]

LOL, you caught it!! “And”

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The Punishment of Mankind

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (Genesis 3: 16-18) KJV.

THERE WAS NEVER A CURSE on Adam or Eve. only TWO things were cursed - the EARTH, and the Serpent. Everything else was for Adam's SAKE - to assist him in dealing with his human nature.

 

[PloughBoy]

THERE WAS NEVER A CURSE on Adam or Eve. only TWO things were cursed - the EARTH, and the Serpent. Everything else was for Adam's SAKE - to assist him in dealing with his human nature.
[

I will not be drawn at this time into the doctrine of "original sin", For "Augustine and Pelagius" and "The Synod of Dort in 1610" settle those arguments. fully. concerning the fall of mankind. So just to be sure, to let you know My Biblical stances; I fall into the camp of an "Augustinian" and a supporter of "The Chicago Statement of Biblical inerrancy" 1978. So there i am.

And for now concerning the word "curse" in the above post. in which the word it itself is not in dispute. But the results of the "fall" is really addressed,

Sorry for not using more clarity in the title thread. and to avoid more distractions
I will end with this: for truly I have been guilty of this on many of occasions.

New American Standard 1977
Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless, and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

King James 2000 Bible
Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the ruin of the hearers.

Shalom

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I will not be drawn at this time into the doctrine of "original sin", For "Augustine and Pelagius" and "The Synod of Dort in 1610" settle those arguments. fully. concerning the fall of mankind. So just to be sure, to let you know My Biblical stances; I fall into the camp of an "Augustinian" and a supporter of "The Chicago Statement of Biblical inerrancy" 1978. So there i am.

And for now concerning the word "curse" in the above post. in which the word it itself is not in dispute. But the results of the "fall" is really addressed,

Sorry for not using more clarity in the title thread. and to avoid more distractions
I will end with this: for truly I have been guilty of this on many of occasions.

New American Standard 1977
Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless, and leads to the ruin of the hearers.

King James 2000 Bible
Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the ruin of the hearers.

Shalom

There's really NO SUCH THING as "Original sin", and there's NO SUCH THING as a "Fallen nature" - there's just a "Human nature", which you and I have, Adam had, and Jesus also had (which we know because Jesus was tempted in every respect AS WE ARE). Since temptation begins with our own "Lust", then obviously Jesus' nature, Adam's Nature, and MY nature. are ell the same. The only difference in Jesus case was that HE never let His "lust" conceive - and become SIN, like we all do.

 

[Samson2020]

The Punishment of Mankind

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (Genesis 3: 16-18) KJV.

Romans 5:18 settles that question for me. The true Christian- NO in that they have received mercy to believe in the redemptive work of Jesus. The others who
have as yet NOT received mercy -YES.

 

[rhern53]

God told Adam, if you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you will surely die.

Question: did Adam die after he ate from the tree?

Was there not a separation from the presence of God?

 

[B-A-C]

Gal 3:10; For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."
Gal 3:13; Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"—
Rev 22:3; There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;

1Cor 15:55; "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"
1Cor 15:56; The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

 

[rhern53]

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Zechariah 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem;
Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes,
and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem
shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Are we as Christians still living under the curse,God laid on us in the Garden of Eden?

The Punishment of Mankind

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (Genesis 3: 16-18) KJV.

God cursed the earth

Genesis 3:17 (NKJV)
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.

God cursed the serpent

Genesis 3:14 (NKJV)
So the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.

Was Adam cursed?

Not as directly as God's curse on the earth and the serpent, but indirectly he was.

Adam’s sin brought to pass death—and this curse passed unto all men, because all sinned.

Considering the reality of sin and the 'curse of death', we see in Romans 5:12 that Paul communicates a proper understanding of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.

Romans 5:12 (NKJV)
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Through one mans sin the curse of death passes to us all.

So in that sense we can say Adam was cursed, though not directly as with the earth and the serpent.

When will the curse end? The answer I believe is here...

Rev 22:3 (NKJV)
1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.
5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

Shalom

 

[rhern53]

Rev 22:3 (NKJV)
1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.
5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

Shalom

well said

With the curse being washed by the blood of the Lamb; those who are written in the Book of Life return to the presence of God as it was before the disobedience of Adam and Eve.

What was this sin imposed on Adam and Eve and their decedents (all man kind).

When God breathed life into the newly formed Adam, this life lived and breathed in the presences and realm of God.

The life was in the Breath given by God The Almighty. Death came from disobedience.

Adam's soul and body were separated from this presence of God. Renewal is described in Rev. 22:3.

What kept Adam from returning to the Dust of the Earth. This is a mystery which involves future redemption for the sake of God's creation.

God's breathed life which was take away; this meant separation from God's presence. Adam was give a subordinate life giving blood which cannot enter the Kingdom

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God

Hebrews 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness

Do we not say this is my flesh and blood when we speak of blood relatives.

Even Jesus shed his blood.

Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

In the presence of God, Adam did not say of Eve this is my flesh and blood.

Genesis 2:23
The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.”

The Word of God has all the answers we need to know. But most people chose their own logical explication, thus rejecting the Word.

This passage is repeated twice in Proverbs for emphases.

Proverbs 14:12 (NKJ)
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Question: did Adam die after he ate from the tree?

Spiritually YES, physically NO. and NO HUMAN was "Spiritually alive" again until Jesus made Hi perfect SIN OFFERING, and the Holy Spirit could indwell people.

 

[rhern53]

Spiritually YES, physically NO. and NO HUMAN was "Spiritually alive" again until Jesus made Hi perfect SIN OFFERING, and the Holy Spirit could indwell people.

Genesis 2: 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 3:

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Question: when did they realize they were naked. What has changed; one moment they are not ashamed the next moment they are ashamed and had to cover their nakedness.

verse :13 The serpent beguiled me ............ what does beguile mean?

verse :15 And I will put enmity between thee (Satan) and the woman, and between thy seed (Satan) and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

..... It is well known that her seed is prophetic of the coming Christ Jesus. But what is the explanation of thy seed (Satan)? Eve was beguiled; what is this seed?

 

[rhern53]

Spiritually YES, physically NO. and NO HUMAN was "Spiritually alive" again until Jesus made Hi perfect SIN OFFERING, and the Holy Spirit could indwell people.

You are correct, Adam and Eve were spiritually alive.

God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God gave Adam His Breath of Life and God spent much time with His son, Adam.

 

[PloughBoy]

You are correct, Adam and Eve were spiritually alive.

God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

God gave Adam His Breath of Life and God spent much time with His son, Adam.

quick note: Where is it recorded in all of "Holy Scripture" that Adam was "spiritual alive", I know ADAM [human] became a "living soul". when GOD breathe the breath in them, in which is something new, that never existed before. "a living soul".

PS. and please if you can explain, explicitly using exegesis form. that cannot be refuted. Express plainly that a child can understand. "sound doctrine".

 

[B-A-C]

Gen 6:3; Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

The inference here is.. God's spirit did deal with men for a while before Genesis 6.

 

[PloughBoy]

Gen 6:3; Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

The inference here is.. God's spirit did deal with men for a while before Genesis 6.

One thing for sure, you hit it on the nail. That Adam was not a Spiritual creature, meaning he was not spiritual and if he was not 'spiritual" he could not die a spiritual death on the day he ate from the Tree. You said it plainly and back it up with "Holy Scripture":
New International Version
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

well done. B-A-C. 1st ADAM earthly, 2nd Adam life giving Spirit. [The complete creation of The Being called human is made complete in "The Revelation of Jesus Christ]

(Genesis 1) snapshots
26Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, a and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


27So God [The Father] created mankind in his own image,
in the image of [The Father] God he created them;
male and female he created them.



Now, here comes Jesus: wrapped in a swaddling blanket "The WORD of GOD" [2nd part of The Triune] and we all heard or read what He said:
New International Version
"When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit."
He had completed His part, that "Let us make"

Here He comes:
. 2Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.… [3rd part of The Triune] to complete His work on earth in You! "let us make this new creature called "human".


English Revised Version
But we all, with unveiled face reflecting as a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.
(2 Corinthians 3: 18).

Contemporary English Version
and he has always known who his chosen ones would be. He had decided to let them become like his own Son, so his Son would be the first of many children.
(Romans 8:29)

Your destiny before the foundation of the World, none of this is a after thought. The world is "The ALMIGHTY GOD"S"' molding press, to make you into a Brand New Being, the very Image of HIS , only Begotten SON. For JESUS is the 1st of that NEW CREATION!.

SALVATION STORY is not about your earthly life. So get over it. Your happy family, your happy career, so get over it! Your American Dream, so get over it!

You got Bigger " Fish to Fry"! "So come out from among them" "Child of GOD" you know HIS voice! "My Sheep knows my voice" and will not follow another. You do know what that "Curve Hook" that is on That "Shepherd Staff" is for? If you don't, You will!