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Angels

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Loyal
Sometimes much is made about angels.

I think much of what the world thinks about angels is wrong. Some people think we turn into angels when we die. Movies like "It's a Wonderful Life" don't help much here :)

Here are some interesting Bible facts.

There are no female angels in the Bible.

Satan is an angel. -- Ezek 28:14;

Angels are not married in heaven. (Neither are humans) -- Matt 22:30; Mark 12:25;

Angels can become invisible. -- Numb 22:23-35;

Angels can physically touch us. (Even move us) -- Gen 19:10;

Seraphim and Cherubim are the two types of angels mentioned in the Bible.

Angels cannot be redeemed (fallen angels cannot be saved). -- Jude 1:6;

One single angel is capable of killing at least 185,000 humans. -- 2 Kings 19:35; Isa 37:36;

There are at least 12,000 angels in heaven. -- Matt 26:53;

Michael is an arch-angel -- Jude 1:9;

Gabriel is an angel -- Luke 1:26;

Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer are the only named angels in the Bible.

Ezek 1:4-26; gives a description of what some angels look like.
 
Member
I think Genesis 19:10 was especially interesting for me @B-A-C because I also see that angels can appear as men. I am wondering now if there are any examples in the bible where they appear as a woman. I don't recall ever reading anything like that, but maybe you know. I think it's interesting that angels are not male or female, and yet they appear as human, as they did with Lot.

I think I will learn a lot here;) This was the first thread I read, and it caught me right up;) Thank you much, Denise
PS I do believe the bible is the Word of God, and even the parts I don't understand, I always say that He has not revealed that to me. When I believe He is telling me through His HS, I know that I am supposed to accept it as His Truth, by faith:)
 
Loyal
I think it's interesting that angels are not male or female,
Gen 6:2; That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3; And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4; There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Some believe the "sons of God" were angels. The "daughters of men" were human women.
They had sexual relations with each other and this is where the giants came from.

Not much is said about this in the Bible. The Book of Enoch (uncanonized) says
quite a bit about this.
 
Loyal
My own experience and study of scripture has led me to see two kinds of angels: the human messenger and the heavenly messenger. Both have at times been sent to men by God. The word "angel" does mean messenger. John the Baptist was a human messenger sent by God while Gabriel appears to be a heavenly messenger.

As to the male versus female this is just like God Himself. He really has no gender as people know gender. But... in scripture, God has assigned roles for people which are defined by the designation of male and female. In the natural the male is the father or potential father while the female is the mother or the potential mother. That is the carnal or natural part, but spiritually...

The woman is to remain silent in the Church so no angel sent by God has the female role, but as we see in scripture there have been physical women sent by God where they were not to be silent. These were "angels" of God, were they not?

Perhaps generally the physical male is in scripture more often given the spiritual male role, but as we see in Deborah and others this was not and therefore is not always the case. It is the spiritual female who is to be silent in the Church, but the Church itself which is the Mother consists of both physical men and physical women. The ones who remain silent are those in the congregation listening to the anointed speaker. The ones who speak those who are anointed. Both groups, the listeners and the speakers can be of both natural sexes. When they have a message from God they are angels whether they happen to human males or females.
 
Loyal
I think Genesis 19:10 was especially interesting for me @B-A-C because I also see that angels can appear as men. I am wondering now if there are any examples in the bible where they appear as a woman. I don't recall ever reading anything like that, but maybe you know. I think it's interesting that angels are not male or female, and yet they appear as human, as they did with Lot.

I think I will learn a lot here;) This was the first thread I read, and it caught me right up;) Thank you much, Denise
PS I do believe the bible is the Word of God, and even the parts I don't understand, I always say that He has not revealed that to me. When I believe He is telling me through His HS, I know that I am supposed to accept it as His Truth, by faith:)
What were these two 'women' if not angels? They were angels albeit evil ones...
 
Loyal
My own experience and study of scripture has led me to see two kinds of angels: the human messenger and the heavenly messenger. Both have at times been sent to men by God. The word "angel" does mean messenger. John the Baptist was a human messenger sent by God while Gabriel appears to be a heavenly messenger.

As to the male versus female this is just like God Himself. He really has no gender as people know gender. But... in scripture, God has assigned roles for people which are defined by the designation of male and female. In the natural the male is the father or potential father while the female is the mother or the potential mother. That is the carnal or natural part, but spiritually...

The woman is to remain silent in the Church so no angel sent by God has the female role, but as we see in scripture there have been physical women sent by God where they were not to be silent. These were "angels" of God, were they not?

Perhaps generally the physical male is in scripture more often given the spiritual male role, but as we see in Deborah and others this was not and therefore is not always the case. It is the spiritual female who is to be silent in the Church, but the Church itself which is the Mother consists of both physical men and physical women. The ones who remain silent are those in the congregation listening to the anointed speaker. The ones who speak those who are anointed. Both groups, the listeners and the speakers can be of both natural sexes. When they have a message from God they are angels whether they happen to human males or females.
Amadeus all this is pure conjecture...It's not backed by scripture
Even this thing of women being silent in the church is wrong and against the Word
 
Loyal
Amadeus all this is pure conjecture...It's not backed by scripture
Even this thing of women being silent in the church is wrong and against the Word
Conjecture it is not.

You have a different idea than I about what the Word of God is. The Bible is only the dead carcass until brought to Life in a person by the quickening of the Holy Spirit. When it is Alive in you or me or some other person then it is the Word of God.

As to the silence of the women I have written down much about that and it all has scriptural backing. I won't post it here as that is not the topic.
 
Member
Conjecture it is not.

You have a different idea than I about what the Word of God is. The Bible is only the dead carcass until brought to Life in a person by the quickening of the Holy Spirit. When it is Alive in you or me or some other person then it is the Word of God.

As to the silence of the women I have written down much about that and it all has scriptural backing. I won't post it here as that is not the topic.
I know there is scripture that has something about women being silent, but would you mind putting those scriptures you are specifically referring to amadeus? I just want to know before I go ahead and add anything. I had thought about adding something when I first read your post but I got busy with something else.

Thanks much, Denise
 
Loyal
What two women Bendito? I lost you there. It must be in someone else's reply, or the OP??
LOL I'm sorry, I forgot to give you the reference...
Zechariah 5:9
Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.
Interesting stuff here
 
Loyal
Conjecture it is not.

You have a different idea than I about what the Word of God is. The Bible is only the dead carcass until brought to Life in a person by the quickening of the Holy Spirit. When it is Alive in you or me or some other person then it is the Word of God.

As to the silence of the women I have written down much about that and it all has scriptural backing. I won't post it here as that is not the topic.
Sorry my friend...The bible does not say women are to keep quiet in church and there is much precedent for women teaching etc... In the bible

The bible says the Word is alive and powerful and sharper than a two edged sword! That does not sound dead to me....Where do you get these ideas?
 
Loyal
I know there is scripture that has something about women being silent, but would you mind putting those scriptures you are specifically referring to amadeus? I just want to know before I go ahead and add anything. I had thought about adding something when I first read your post but I got busy with something else.

Thanks much, Denise
Denise this whole thing about women keeping silent in church is based on one single verse in 1 Timothy 2:12 The verse is taken out of context and an entire doctrine built on it....Check the contexts of this verse and others you may find. All of them are written in "Responsa" (Responsa (Latin: plural of responsum, "answers") comprise a body of written decisions and rulings given by legal scholars in response to questions addressed to them. In the modern era, the term is used to describe decisions and rulings made by scholars in historic religious law.)

You want to look at the entire letter. Most often one has to carefully read the entire epistle to keep it all in context
 
Member
LOL I'm sorry, I forgot to give you the reference...
Zechariah 5:9
Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.
Interesting stuff here
Thank you for this I don't recall ever reading it before I know I did because I've read Zachariah but as you probably know it takes going over the Bible again and again and learning more each time I read it so but yes it definitely tells me that those angels were women female thanks so much please forgive the typing style but I'm using the audio to text feature
because I'm just using my phone right now instead of my laptop maybe I'll see you tomorrow I'd like to continue with this thread this is really very educational for me thank you again
 
Member
Denise this whole thing about women keeping silent in church is based on one single verse in 1 Timothy 2:12 The verse is taken out of context and an entire doctrine built on it....Check the contexts of this verse and others you may find. All of them are written in "Responsa" (Responsa (Latin: plural of responsum, "answers") comprise a body of written decisions and rulings given by legal scholars in response to questions addressed to them. In the modern era, the term is used to describe decisions and rulings made by scholars in historic religious law.)

You want to look at the entire letter. Most often one has to carefully read the entire epistle to keep it all in context
I will read this tomorrow morning because like I said I'm just using my cell phone at the moment I do understand the concept of reading the verse within the context surrounding it and it's true I found in doing that on different verses that I didn't really understand it really helped to read the surrounding verses there's nothing worse for me than to take a verse out of context and try and make it work for me because it never does and mean not not as I'm reading reading it within the context thanks again Benito or bendito I keep thinking about their freedom and he too hope you got that I don't know anyway I'll talk to you tomorrow probably as well as anyone else reading this thread I'm really looking forward to it because this gets me into the word big time and I really did excited when I'm studying the word because like I said everytime I get into it I learn something new thanks again talk to you tomorrow
 
Loyal
Thank you for this I don't recall ever reading it before I know I did because I've read Zachariah but as you probably know it takes going over the Bible again and again and learning more each time I read it so but yes it definitely tells me that those angels were women female thanks so much please forgive the typing style but I'm using the audio to text feature
because I'm just using my phone right now instead of my laptop maybe I'll see you tomorrow I'd like to continue with this thread this is really very educational for me thank you again
The thing about angels having no gender is again simple conjecture on the part of church scholars....We as people tend to miss the obvious and plainly written word too many times... Which is why we need our Holy Spirit to teach us
 
Member
I will read this tomorrow morning because like I said I'm just using my cell phone at the moment I do understand the concept of reading the verse within the context surrounding it and it's true I found in doing that on different verses that I didn't really understand it really helped to read the surrounding verses there's nothing worse for me than to take a verse out of context and try and make it work for me because it never does and mean not not as I'm reading reading it within the context thanks again Benito or bendito I keep thinking about their freedom and he too hope you got that I don't know anyway I'll talk to you tomorrow probably as well as anyone else reading this thread I'm really looking forward to it because this gets me into the word big time and I really did excited when I'm studying the word because like I said everytime I get into it I learn something new thanks again talk to you tomorrow
Boy that message really got scrambled this audio to text isn't real reliable unless I speak really slow and very clearly like I am now sorry about that
 
Loyal
I will read this tomorrow morning because like I said I'm just using my cell phone at the moment I do understand the concept of reading the verse within the context surrounding it and it's true I found in doing that on different verses that I didn't really understand it really helped to read the surrounding verses there's nothing worse for me than to take a verse out of context and try and make it work for me because it never does and mean not not as I'm reading reading it within the context thanks again Benito or bendito I keep thinking about their freedom and he too hope you got that I don't know anyway I'll talk to you tomorrow probably as well as anyone else reading this thread I'm really looking forward to it because this gets me into the word big time and I really did excited when I'm studying the word because like I said everytime I get into it I learn something new thanks again talk to you tomorrow
Yeah I'm about to drag my bony butt to bed too...Too much time on the road, and I'm not getting younger fast enough
 
Loyal
Denise this whole thing about women keeping silent in church is based on one single verse in 1 Timothy 2:12 The verse is taken out of context and an entire doctrine built on it....Check the contexts of this verse and others you may find
Well it's slightly more than two.

1 Tim 2:11; A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1 Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1 Tim 2:13; For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1 Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

I think the problem isn't that women can't speak, prophesy, in the church. Many churches believe women can be used in the church.
Especially in women's and children's ministries.
The problem some churches have, is a woman being head pastor, or having authority over some men.

1 Cor 11:3; But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

1 Cor 11:7; For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
1 Cor 11:8; For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
1 Cor 11:9; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.

Gen 2:18; Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

There are a few more.
 
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