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Angels - revisted

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Loyal
I almost dread bringing up angels - because it seems there is so much confusion about them.
But maybe the reason to talk about angels - is because there is so much confusion about them :)

One of my favorite Christmas movies is "It's a Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart. It's a great
feel good movie. But in the movie, when people die they become angels, and when the angels do
a good deed they get their wings. Hmmmm... not really a Bible doctrine.

So what... who are angels? Why do they even exist?
Some people have little statues of pretty female angels with two wings on their shoulders. Halo's
above their heads. Others have pictures of little naked (or nearly naked) babies with wings flying
around. I'm not sure where these ideas of angels come from.

In Ezekiel 10. We see a description of some "beings". These beings are identified as cherubim in several
of the verses here.

Ezek 10:1; Then I looked, and behold, in the expanse that was over the heads of the cherubim something like a sapphire stone, in appearance resembling a throne, appeared above them.
Ezek 10:2; And He spoke to the man clothed in linen and said, "Enter between the whirling wheels under the cherubim and fill your hands with coals of fire from between the cherubim and scatter them over the city." And he entered in my sight.
Ezek 10:3; Now the cherubim were standing on the right side of the temple when the man entered, and the cloud filled the inner court.
Ezek 10:4; Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub to the threshold of the temple, and the temple was filled with the cloud and the court was filled with the brightness of the glory of the LORD.
Ezek 10:5; Moreover, the sound of the wings of the cherubim was heard as far as the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty when He speaks.
Ezek 10:6; It came about when He commanded the man clothed in linen, saying, "Take fire from between the whirling wheels, from between the cherubim," he entered and stood beside a wheel.
Ezek 10:7; Then the cherub stretched out his hand from between the cherubim to the fire which was between the cherubim, took some and put it into the hands of the one clothed in linen, who took it and went out.
Ezek 10:8; The cherubim appeared to have the form of a man's hand under their wings.
Ezek 10:9; Then I looked, and behold, four wheels beside the cherubim, one wheel beside each cherub; and the appearance of the wheels was like the gleam of a Tarshish stone.
Ezek 10:10; As for their appearance, all four of them had the same likeness, as if one wheel were within another wheel.
Ezek 10:11; When they moved, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went; but they followed in the direction which they faced, without turning as they went.
Ezek 10:12; Their whole body, their backs, their hands, their wings and the wheels were full of eyes all around, the wheels belonging to all four of them.
Ezek 10:13; The wheels were called in my hearing, the whirling wheels.
Ezek 10:14; And each one had four faces. The first face was the face of a cherub, the second face was the face of a man, the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.
Ezek 10:15; Then the cherubim rose up. They are the living beings that I saw by the river Chebar.
Ezek 10:16; Now when the cherubim moved, the wheels would go beside them; also when the cherubim lifted up their wings to rise from the ground, the wheels would not turn from beside them.
Ezek 10:17; When the cherubim stood still, the wheels would stand still; and when they rose up, the wheels would rise with them, for the spirit of the living beings was in them.
Ezek 10:18; Then the glory of the LORD departed from the threshold of the temple and stood over the cherubim.
Ezek 10:19; When the cherubim departed, they lifted their wings and rose up from the earth in my sight with the wheels beside them; and they stood still at the entrance of the east gate of the LORD'S house, and the glory of the God of Israel hovered over them.
Ezek 10:20; These are the living beings that I saw beneath the God of Israel by the river Chebar; so I knew that they were cherubim.
Ezek 10:21; Each one had four faces and each one four wings, and beneath their wings was the form of human hands.
Ezek 10:22; As for the likeness of their faces, they were the same faces whose appearance I had seen by the river Chebar. Each one went straight ahead.

Not exactly the image of how most people view angels. Four faces? Eyes all over them? whirling wheels?

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
In Ezekiel 1. We see some beings. Their descriptions are nearly identical to Ezekiel 10 we read above. However in this passage they are not identified
as cherubim. (Which is why I put chapter 10 ahead of chapter 1). Yet in reading this passage, I believe it is talking about the same cherubim.

Ezek 1:4; As I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in the midst of the fire.
Ezek 1:5; Within it there were figures resembling four living beings. And this was their appearance: they had human form.
Ezek 1:6; Each of them had four faces and four wings.
Ezek 1:7; Their legs were straight and their feet were like a calf's hoof, and they gleamed like burnished bronze.
Ezek 1:8; Under their wings on their four sides were human hands. As for the faces and wings of the four of them,
Ezek 1:9; their wings touched one another; their faces did not turn when they moved, each went straight forward.
Ezek 1:10; As for the form of their faces, each had the face of a man; all four had the face of a lion on the right and the face of a bull on the left, and all four had the face of an eagle.
Ezek 1:11; Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out above; each had two touching another being, and two covering their bodies.
Ezek 1:12; And each went straight forward; wherever the spirit was about to go, they would go, without turning as they went.
Ezek 1:13; In the midst of the living beings there was something that looked like burning coals of fire, like torches darting back and forth among the living beings. The fire was bright, and lightning was flashing from the fire.
Ezek 1:14; And the living beings ran to and fro like bolts of lightning.
Ezek 1:15; Now as I looked at the living beings, behold, there was one wheel on the earth beside the living beings, for each of the four of them.
Ezek 1:16; The appearance of the wheels and their workmanship was like sparkling beryl, and all four of them had the same form, their appearance and workmanship being as if one wheel were within another.
Ezek 1:17; Whenever they moved, they moved in any of their four directions without turning as they moved.
Ezek 1:18; As for their rims they were lofty and awesome, and the rims of all four of them were full of eyes round about.
Ezek 1:19; Whenever the living beings moved, the wheels moved with them. And whenever the living beings rose from the earth, the wheels rose also.
Ezek 1:20; Wherever the spirit was about to go, they would go in that direction. And the wheels rose close beside them; for the spirit of the living beings was in the wheels.
Ezek 1:21; Whenever those went, these went; and whenever those stood still, these stood still. And whenever those rose from the earth, the wheels rose close beside them; for the spirit of the living beings was in the wheels.
Ezek 1:22; Now over the heads of the living beings there was something like an expanse, like the awesome gleam of crystal, spread out over their heads.
Ezek 1:23; Under the expanse their wings were stretched out straight, one toward the other; each one also had two wings covering its body on the one side and on the other.
Ezek 1:24; I also heard the sound of their wings like the sound of abundant waters as they went, like the voice of the Almighty, a sound of tumult like the sound of an army camp; whenever they stood still, they dropped their wings.
Ezek 1:25; And there came a voice from above the expanse that was over their heads; whenever they stood still, they dropped their wings.
Ezek 1:26; Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man.
Ezek 1:27; Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him.
Ezek 1:28; As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.

Again we see the four faces, the four wings, the wheels they travel on and the eyes all over their bodies.

.... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
In the NASB Bible cherubim are mentioned 57 times in the old testament, but only once in the new Testament ( Heb 9:5; )
In Isaiah 6 there are some other beings. These are called Seraphim. They are slightly different. For one thing they have six wings instead of four.

Isa 6:2; Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
Isa 6:3; And one called out to another and said, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory."

Isa 6:6; Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs.
Isa 6:7; He touched my mouth with it and said, "Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven."

In the description of the ark of the covenant in Exodus 25. We see something called the mercy seat. ( Exod 25:17-22; )
At each end of the mercy seat is a cherub. ( Exod 25:19; )

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
The word "angel" or angels (plural) appears 283 times in the NASB Bible. The first time we hear about an angel is in Genesis 16:7; when Hagar s found
in the wilderness after Sara teats her "harshly". So harshly runs away. ( Gen 16:6; )

In fact it is the angel that gives the prophecy of Ishmael ( Gen 16:11-12; )

* Unrelated- side note * one of my favorite passage is here. Hagar says "You are a God who sees" ( Gen 16:13; ) a whole thread could be written about that.

In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is two angels that come to "check out" the city. Gen 19:1; says they are angels. They are called angels again
in Gen 19:15;

An interesting point about angels in Genesis 19; In verse 10 it says these men (the men who are angels) reached out and grabbed Lot and pulled
him into the house. So some angels have the ability to physically touch us. (At least they touched Lot)

Some angels are very powerful. In fact in 2 Kings 19:35; it says one single angel killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers.

... to be continued ...
 
Active
"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits,.." (Hebrews 1:7)

"Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" (Hebrews 1:14)

"For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one..." (Hebrews 2:5-6..)

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels." (Hebrews 12:22)

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." (Hebrews 13:2)
 
Loyal
Ezekiel 28 is somewhat controversial depending on how you interpret it.
I personally believe in something called "parallel prophecy" which is a theme though out the Bible.
For example God being with the Israelites until they reached the promised land (Canaan) is an example
of God being being with us until we reach the promised land (Heaven).

I believe there was a a human man who was the King (some Bibles say "leader") of Tyre.
So much of the passage below (if not all - pertains to this person)
But there are some terms mixed in... that is what I want to talk about.

Ezek 28:1; The word of the Lord came again to me, saying,
Ezek 28:2; “Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord God,
“Because your heart is lifted up
And you have said, ‘I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods
In the heart of the seas’; Yet you are a man and not God,
Although you make your heart like the heart of God—
Ezek 28:3; Behold, you are wiser than Daniel; There is no secret that is a match for you.
Ezek 28:4; “By your wisdom and understanding
You have acquired riches for yourself And have acquired gold and silver for your treasuries.
Ezek 28:5; “By your great wisdom, by your trade
You have increased your riches And your heart is lifted up because of your riches—
Ezek 28:6; Therefore thus says the Lord God,
‘Because you have made your heart Like the heart of God,
Ezek 28:7; Therefore, behold, I will bring strangers upon you,
The most ruthless of the nations. And they will draw their swords
Against the beauty of your wisdom And defile your splendor.
Ezek 28:8; ‘They will bring you down to the pit,
And you will die the death of those who are slain In the heart of the seas.
Ezek 28:9; ‘Will you still say, “I am a god,”
In the presence of your slayer,
Though you are a man and not God,
In the hands of those who wound you?
Ezek 28:10; ‘You will die the death of the uncircumcised
By the hand of strangers,
For I have spoken!’ declares the Lord God!”’”
Ezek 28:11; Again the word of the Lord came to me saying,
Ezek 28:12; “Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God,
“You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
Ezek 28:13; “You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering:
The ruby, the topaz and the diamond;
The beryl, the onyx and the jasper;
The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald;
And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets,
Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezek 28:14; “You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15; “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezek 28:16; “By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:17; “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
Ezek 28:18; “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
Ezek 28:19; “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you; You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

This is a lot to take in, but notice in verse 13, it says "You were in Eden, the garden of God" - unlikely a king of Ezekiels time
(roughly 620 BC to 570 BC) would have been alive in the garden of Eden 4,000 years earlier.

Verse 14 says "You were the anointed cherub (angel) who covers"
It's also unlikely that a human man would be called a cherub (angel)

It's difficult to tell where the verses about the leader of Tyre stop and the verses about the cherub in Eden begin,
but I believe the sin and circumstances here apply to both the leader of Tyre and the cherub in the garden.

Verse 16 says "Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God".
I believe this goes along with what Jesus said in Luke 10:18; when He said He saw Satan cast out of heaven. Again it's very unlikely that a human was cast out of heaven.

Again verse 16 says "o covering cherub" The cherub being an angel.

So this is an angel that rebelled against God. A lot of theology goes into this thought.
Is it possible that an angel can rebel against God?

It says this being was "blameless in your ways" (verse 15)

Now that we have identified one of the people (angels) this passage is written about, lets start from the beginning again.

This person's heart "is lifted up" and said "I am a god" "I sit in the throne of God".
In verse 6 God says because you tried to make yourself like God... this will happen to you.

Verse 8 says "they will bring you down to the pit"
I believe this goes along with Revelation 20:3; where it says Satan will be locked in the pit (abyss) for a thousand years.

So everyone reads all of this differently, but to me, this talking about Satan.
He was trying to make himself equal with God. This is the "original sin" (not Adam and Eve eating the fruit)
and so God casts him out of heaven. It seems that Satan was very beautiful and and very wise. (verse 12)

In verse 19 it says "and you will cease to be forever". I believe this goes along with Revelation 20:10; where Satan
is finally cast into the Lake of fire.

We also see that God created the angels, just like he created man. But we don't know when he created them.
Verse 13 says "the day you were created" this is repeated in verse 15.

Not everyone believes this about Satan. But if it is, it shows that God created angels, that angels had free-will.
Some angels (at least one here) rebelled against God. But if this cherub (angel) who was in the garden of Eden
isn't Satan... then who is it?

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
In Genesis 3, we see a serpent. A talking serpent no less. The woman didn't seem to think this was unusual.

Gen 3:2; The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;
Gen 3:3; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’”
Gen 3:4; The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
Gen 3:5; For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

It's interesting the serpent told Eve "you will be like God". It was half truth. (a half-truth is a whole lie).
This is mentioned by Paul in 2 Cor 11:3;

In Revelation 20:2; it says "the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan". So it seems the serpent in the garden of Eden,
really was Satan.

.. to be continued ...
 
Loyal
In Isaiah 14 we see this passage. It's a lot like Ezekiel 28 above.

Isa 14:12; “How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13; “But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly
In the recesses of the north.
Isa 14:14; ‘I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’
Isa 14:15; “Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
Isa 14:16; “Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying,
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

Verse 12 in King James looks like this.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

This is where the name Lucifer comes from. It's the only place it appears in the Bible. But Lucifer isn't really a name, it's a title
that means "son of dawn". Again, this passage is usually taken to be about Satan (Satan = Lucifer)
 
Active
Not exactly the image of how most people view angels. Four faces? Eyes all over them? whirling wheels?

... to be continued ...
BAC this is a good read :).

We have to add some common sense to this though. God would not make angels unattractive / weird. We are created just beneath them.

I would say a human with wings is pretty accurate. The eyes are metaphors and the wheels a chariot that is somehow a part of them. Maybe something like 'avatar'?
 
Active
Trey Smith has a YouTube channel in which he offers marvellously produced videos on subjects concerning angels, demons,
prophecy, Enoch, reality, the nephilim, and much more.

Always entertaining and provocative. This channel is better than any free-to-air TV viewing.

 
Loyal
We have to add some common sense to this though. God would not make angels unattractive / weird. We are created just beneath them.
It's possible you are right. But I think there might be different kinds of angels, possibly even more than just seraphim and cherubim.

Heb 13:2; Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

Maybe all do not have wings? Or if they do, they have the ability to hide them? It seems unlikely people would be "unaware" they are angels
if they all looked like Ezekiel chapter 10 above :)

Also when Lot was in Sodom and Gommorah, it seems people could not tell the men were angels, so I think you are right.
It also seems that angels can be "invisible" or at least God can blind our eyes to them.

Numb 22:23; When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way with his drawn sword in his hand, the donkey turned off from the way and went into the field; but Balaam struck the donkey to turn her back into the way.
Numb 22:24; Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path of the vineyards, with a wall on this side and a wall on that side.
Numb 22:25; When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed herself to the wall and pressed Balaam's foot against the wall, so he struck her again.
Numb 22:26; The angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place where there was no way to turn to the right hand or the left.
Numb 22:27; When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam was angry and struck the donkey with his stick.
Numb 22:28; And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?"
Numb 22:29; Then Balaam said to the donkey, "Because you have made a mockery of me! If there had been a sword in my hand, I would have killed you by now."
Numb 22:30; The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey on which you have ridden all your life to this day? Have I ever been accustomed to do so to you?" And he said, "No."
Numb 22:31; Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way with his drawn sword in his hand; and he bowed all the way to the ground.
Numb 22:32; The angel of the LORD said to him, "Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out as an adversary, because your way was contrary to me.

.. to be continued ...
 
Loyal
Back to the rebellion of angels for a little longer.

Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

This passage...... "swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to earth" is another controversial verse. People interpret this a lot of different
ways. But many people think when Satan rebelled, he took a third of the angels in heaven with him.

How many angels are there? I honestly don't know, but I think there must be at least 18,000 of them. ( Probably more? ) How do I get this number?

Matt 26:53; "Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

So Jesus says the Father could send 12,000 angels. If Satan took a third of the angels with him.... simple math says... 18,000 divided by 3 = 6,000.
Of course I don't know how many there are. It's just a guess. But it seems there are a lot of them.

We do know it was more than Satan that rebelled against God. There were other angels. How many? Again.. it's hard to say.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Some believe this is reference to Genesis 6.

Gen 6:2; that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
Gen 6:3; Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
Gen 6:4; The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

sons of God ?? possibly angels. daughters of men ?? possibly human women. Some people believe angels cannot reproduce sexually. I don't know.

Matt 22:30; "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Mark 12:25; "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

It seems angels do not marry in heaven... but does that mean they cannot have children? I don't really know.

*** NOTE **** This is from the book of Enoch. Enoch is not a canonical book of the Bible *** I include it here simply for reference.
[Chapter 6]
1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, 8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaqiel, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.

[Chapter 7]
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
Is it possible these are the angels mentioned in Jude and Genesis 6?

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
I wonder why angels are usually depicted as having wings......when there is only one type of angel that has wings.....Just wondering....
 
Loyal
I wonder why angels are usually depicted as having wings
probably the same reason heaven is usually thought of as someone sitting around and playing the harp on a cloud, to confuse those that dont read the word
 
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