• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Loyal
I am sure most are familiar with story in Acts, but just in case a quick summary these two hold back money from the sale of there property and lie to peter about the amount they sold the property for, they are both pretty much instantly killed on the spot by the holly spirit.

So my question were they saved and do they have eternal life???

1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife’s full knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds for himself, but brought a portion and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

3Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and withhold some of the proceeds from the land? 4Did it not belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How could you conceive such a deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God!”

5On hearing these words, Ananias fell down and died. And great fear came over all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men stepped forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7About three hours later his wife also came in, unaware of what had happened. 8“Tell me,” said Peter, “is this the price you and your husband got for the land?”


“Yes,” she answered, “that is the price.”

9“How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord?” Peter replied. “Look, the feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

10At that instant she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and found her dead. So they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11And great fear came over the whole church and all who heard about these events.
 
Loyal
There is only one unforgivable sin, and that is blaspheming of the Holy Spirit. One can die, before that comes about, even though moving in that direction. It would be a kindness for us to die before we are able to sin thusly. Whether it be this, or dying due to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which many do and not die in the flesh, is not mine to judge. I cannot always determine the heart of another unless they wear it on their sleeve.
 
Loyal
I think the they were saved and God actually disciplined them, and he only disciplines his children, so I think they may have lost some rewards but there eternal life is secure.

here is a great copy and paste
Were Ananias and Sapphira saved? We believe they probably were. Their story is told in the context of the actions of “all the believers” (Acts 4:32). They knew of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3), and Ananias’s lie could have been an earlier promise that he would give the whole amount of the sale to the Lord. But the best evidence that they were children of God may be that they received discipline: “If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all” (Hebrews 12:8; see also 1 Corinthians 5:12). Ananias and his wife had conspired to garner the accolades of the church; but their conspiracy led to the sin unto death.
 
Active
So my question were they saved and do they have eternal life???
That is for Jesus to determine.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:12
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2Corinthians 13:5
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
1Corinthians 11:31-32

As for the fate of Ananias and his wife Sapphira, we do not know how Jesus will judge them.
The fact that they both were struck down dead publicly is not a good omen.
I discern that the false doctrine of once saved one cannot lose their salvation creeping into this thread.
A false hope. Unscriptural.

Let us be doers of the Word, and with the assistance of the indwelling Holy Spirit press on to the high calling of our faith and testimony
to the gospel and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
 
Loyal
I think the they were saved and God actually disciplined them, and he only disciplines his children, so I think they may have lost some rewards but there eternal life is secure.

here is a great copy and paste
Were Ananias and Sapphira saved? We believe they probably were. Their story is told in the context of the actions of “all the believers” (Acts 4:32). They knew of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3), and Ananias’s lie could have been an earlier promise that he would give the whole amount of the sale to the Lord. But the best evidence that they were children of God may be that they received discipline: “If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all” (Hebrews 12:8; see also 1 Corinthians 5:12). Ananias and his wife had conspired to garner the accolades of the church; but their conspiracy led to the sin unto death.
I like to think so. Recently the Lord disciplined me by allowing an accident to happen to me at work. It took about 15 stitches on my lip and nose to correct, a lot of blood loss. I had been playing this game that was similar to another game that the Lord made clear to me was something he hated (it was about adventuring in a fantasy world of elves, dwarves, magic, and swords. I always played a fighter, but the game made false Gods and magic as good things that helped the character out.). It wasn't the same game, but it was clear to me after that, that all games of that type was something the Lord didn't want me to involve my time in.
 
Loyal
Ananias and Sapphira may be a special case. You don't hear many thing like this. There is also Herod in Acts 12:23;
But there is much dispute over whether he was actually a believer. (Ananias and Sapphira also :smile: )
One thing I do notice in the Bible is how often it says...
Be watchful, be alert, be sober, watch yourself, stand firm, those who overcome, resist the Devil, etc...
Although some churches preach.. "relax, God's got you covered", I don't really see that in the Bible.
I don't think we lose salvation easily. But I think it's something we need to .. "be watchful, be alert, be sober... etc... " about.
 
Loyal
Waggles just for the record I 100% know that once saved always saved is 100% scripture to say otherwise is simply not true.

once we are saved we are granted eternal life now, if its eternal we can not loose it, if you could loose it would not be eternal. This is not something that is interpreted this is fact. This is what the bible teaches.

Look up John 3-15 spend some time studding Romans,.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
The same way I explain divine violence in the Old Testament. There’s simply no reason to think the cruciform hermeneutic (reading Scripture through the lens of the cross) applies only to the Old Testament. If we truly believe the cross is the quintessential revelation of what God is really like, as I do, then the cross must serve as our interpretive lens whenever and wherever we see, or believe we see, God in action. Knowing that God’s true character looks like Jesus voluntarily dying on the cross for his enemies, we will always know that something else is going on if God appears to act in ways that are contrary to this enemy-loving, non-violent character.

Now, before I apply this hermeneutic to the story of Ananias and Sapphira, I want to state upfront that I won’t be able to give a truly adequate account of this episode in my answer right now. My forthcoming book, The Crucifixion of the Warrior God, looks like it will end up at around 600 pages because I am substantiating every aspect of my thesis with a ton of scriptural evidence. Given that I am arguing for a radically different way of interpreting a significant portion of the Bible, I know the burden of proof is on me, so I’m aiming to give it. In the next couple paragraphs, however, the most I can hope to do is give a skeletal outline of what my answer would look like while leaving out almost all the evidence that would substantiate it and all of my responses to the various objections that could be raised against it.

With that proviso, how would the cruciform hermeneutic assess the Ananias and Sapphira debacle (Acts 5:1-10)? This couple said they had given all the money they’d made from a piece of property to the apostles when, in fact, they had kept some of the money for themselves. Peter first confronted Ananias, telling him that Satan had filled his heart and that he’d lied not only to people, but also to God. Ananias immediately dropped dead. His wife showed up three hours later and Peter confronted her as well. He gave her a chance to repent, but she stuck to her lie. Peter then pointed out that she had conspired with Ananias against the Lord and would now join him in the grave, at which point Sapphira fell over dead (Ac. 5:1-10).

There’s no denying that the passage depicts the death of this couple as a divine judgment. So, if the cross is the hermeneutical key to understanding God’s true character, the first question we must ask is, what does the cross reveal about the nature of Gods’ judgments? What it says, I contend, is that God judges sin by withdrawing from it, thereby allowing people to suffer its death consequences. God “delivered Jesus over” to suffer at the hands of wicked humans as well as Satan and other fallen powers. And when Jesus became our sin (2 Cor 5:21) and our curse (Gal 3:13), God the Father withdrew his presence from him, which is why Jesus experienced genuine God-forsakenness (Mt 27:46).

The cross reveals, and a wealth of biblical material confirms, that the essence of God’s “wrath” against sin is simply allowing evil to run its self-destructive course. The essence of sin is pushing God away, and since God is the source of life, sin is, by its very nature, choosing death. “All who fail to find me harm themselves; those who hate me love death,” the Lord says in Proverbs (Prov. 8:36). So too, “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). And in the Garden the Lord told Adam “in the day you eat from it [the forbidden tree] you will certainly die” (Ge.2:17). Notice, he didn’t say, “I will certainly kill you.” Rather, the couple was removed from God’s presence, showing that their choice to sin was a choice to push God away, which is a choice to die.

In his mercy, God usually strives with people to protect them from the death consequences of their sin. There can come a time, however, when God sees that people have solidified themselves against him to the point that they cannot, or will not, yield to his love and turn from their futile attempts at living apart from a relationship with him. With a grieving heart (reflected in Jesus’ tears over Jerusalem [Lk 19:41]), God at this point grants people their wish and withdraws his protection, thereby allowing evil to run its self-destructive course (e.g. Rom. 1:24-26).

And so, as Jesus bears the sin of the world, he suffers the hellish consequences of the sin of the world as the Father withdraws and delivers him over to wicked people and fallen powers that are allowed to afflict him. And yet, by allowing evil to devour evil on the cross, God defeated evil. Satan and the powers were vanquished by the crucifixion they helped orchestrate (Col. 2:14-15; 1 Cor.2:8). The cross thus reveals, and a wealth of Scripture confirms, that evil ultimately cannibalizes itself. Allowing it to do so manifests the terrible wrath of God.

This is what I believe happened to Ananias and Sapphira. It’s first of all worth noting that, unlike some Old Testament passages, this passage does not say that God struck them dead. It simply says this couple died. And for this to happen God needed to do nothing more than withdraw his protection of them, thereby allowing the ever-present lord of death to do what he is always biting at the bit to do: namely, “kill, steal and destroy” (Jn 10:10). It’s significant that Peter points out that Ananias had allowed Satan to fill his heart (Ac 5:3), suggesting that his lying to the Holy Spirit was not an isolated evil act by a man who was otherwise blameless. It rather seems that, despite the fact that they had joined the community of faith, this couple had been pushing God away and had enslaved themselves to Satan for some time.

This episode reveals the moment God granted them their wish. In a fallen world that is saturated by agents of destruction, such as ours is, death operates like gravity. For a ball to drop, we don’t need to push it down: we simply need to release it. So too, for sinners to experience the death consequences of their decisions, God doesn’t need to slay them: he simply needs to let them go. There are times when he must do so, but as I said, Jesus reveals that God is grieving when he does.

The only other thing I’ll say is that there is no warrant for anyone to extract a universal principle out of this passage and to argue that every death is the result of God punishing someone. It’s true that all death is, in a sense, a punishment of God inasmuch as much the entire creation has been subjected to futility (Rom.8:20) because of human rebellion. But there are no grounds for applying this individually. We could only know that a specific individual died as a result of a specific judgment of God by divine revelation, which is what Peter seems to have received regarding Ananias and Sapphira. Otherwise, Jesus teaches us that it is never our place to try to discern the hand of God in the way people die. We should rather restrict our focus to our own lives, making sure that we are not heading down the road Ananias and Sapphira went down by pushing the Giver of life away.

- See more at: How do you explain the violent judgement of Ananias and Sapphira? - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

I don't know who wrote this but I agree...God is not a killer..He is the bringer of life...Satan is the destroyer, and a killer. God does NOT kill humans.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
The same way I explain divine violence in the Old Testament. There’s simply no reason to think the cruciform hermeneutic (reading Scripture through the lens of the cross) applies only to the Old Testament. If we truly believe the cross is the quintessential revelation of what God is really like, as I do, then the cross must serve as our interpretive lens whenever and wherever we see, or believe we see, God in action. Knowing that God’s true character looks like Jesus voluntarily dying on the cross for his enemies, we will always know that something else is going on if God appears to act in ways that are contrary to this enemy-loving, non-violent character.

Now, before I apply this hermeneutic to the story of Ananias and Sapphira, I want to state upfront that I won’t be able to give a truly adequate account of this episode in my answer right now. My forthcoming book, The Crucifixion of the Warrior God, looks like it will end up at around 600 pages because I am substantiating every aspect of my thesis with a ton of scriptural evidence. Given that I am arguing for a radically different way of interpreting a significant portion of the Bible, I know the burden of proof is on me, so I’m aiming to give it. In the next couple paragraphs, however, the most I can hope to do is give a skeletal outline of what my answer would look like while leaving out almost all the evidence that would substantiate it and all of my responses to the various objections that could be raised against it.

With that proviso, how would the cruciform hermeneutic assess the Ananias and Sapphira debacle (Acts 5:1-10)? This couple said they had given all the money they’d made from a piece of property to the apostles when, in fact, they had kept some of the money for themselves. Peter first confronted Ananias, telling him that Satan had filled his heart and that he’d lied not only to people, but also to God. Ananias immediately dropped dead. His wife showed up three hours later and Peter confronted her as well. He gave her a chance to repent, but she stuck to her lie. Peter then pointed out that she had conspired with Ananias against the Lord and would now join him in the grave, at which point Sapphira fell over dead (Ac. 5:1-10).

There’s no denying that the passage depicts the death of this couple as a divine judgment. So, if the cross is the hermeneutical key to understanding God’s true character, the first question we must ask is, what does the cross reveal about the nature of Gods’ judgments? What it says, I contend, is that God judges sin by withdrawing from it, thereby allowing people to suffer its death consequences. God “delivered Jesus over” to suffer at the hands of wicked humans as well as Satan and other fallen powers. And when Jesus became our sin (2 Cor 5:21) and our curse (Gal 3:13), God the Father withdrew his presence from him, which is why Jesus experienced genuine God-forsakenness (Mt 27:46).

The cross reveals, and a wealth of biblical material confirms, that the essence of God’s “wrath” against sin is simply allowing evil to run its self-destructive course. The essence of sin is pushing God away, and since God is the source of life, sin is, by its very nature, choosing death. “All who fail to find me harm themselves; those who hate me love death,” the Lord says in Proverbs (Prov. 8:36). So too, “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). And in the Garden the Lord told Adam “in the day you eat from it [the forbidden tree] you will certainly die” (Ge.2:17). Notice, he didn’t say, “I will certainly kill you.” Rather, the couple was removed from God’s presence, showing that their choice to sin was a choice to push God away, which is a choice to die.

In his mercy, God usually strives with people to protect them from the death consequences of their sin. There can come a time, however, when God sees that people have solidified themselves against him to the point that they cannot, or will not, yield to his love and turn from their futile attempts at living apart from a relationship with him. With a grieving heart (reflected in Jesus’ tears over Jerusalem [Lk 19:41]), God at this point grants people their wish and withdraws his protection, thereby allowing evil to run its self-destructive course (e.g. Rom. 1:24-26).

And so, as Jesus bears the sin of the world, he suffers the hellish consequences of the sin of the world as the Father withdraws and delivers him over to wicked people and fallen powers that are allowed to afflict him. And yet, by allowing evil to devour evil on the cross, God defeated evil. Satan and the powers were vanquished by the crucifixion they helped orchestrate (Col. 2:14-15; 1 Cor.2:8). The cross thus reveals, and a wealth of Scripture confirms, that evil ultimately cannibalizes itself. Allowing it to do so manifests the terrible wrath of God.

This is what I believe happened to Ananias and Sapphira. It’s first of all worth noting that, unlike some Old Testament passages, this passage does not say that God struck them dead. It simply says this couple died. And for this to happen God needed to do nothing more than withdraw his protection of them, thereby allowing the ever-present lord of death to do what he is always biting at the bit to do: namely, “kill, steal and destroy” (Jn 10:10). It’s significant that Peter points out that Ananias had allowed Satan to fill his heart (Ac 5:3), suggesting that his lying to the Holy Spirit was not an isolated evil act by a man who was otherwise blameless. It rather seems that, despite the fact that they had joined the community of faith, this couple had been pushing God away and had enslaved themselves to Satan for some time.

This episode reveals the moment God granted them their wish. In a fallen world that is saturated by agents of destruction, such as ours is, death operates like gravity. For a ball to drop, we don’t need to push it down: we simply need to release it. So too, for sinners to experience the death consequences of their decisions, God doesn’t need to slay them: he simply needs to let them go. There are times when he must do so, but as I said, Jesus reveals that God is grieving when he does.

The only other thing I’ll say is that there is no warrant for anyone to extract a universal principle out of this passage and to argue that every death is the result of God punishing someone. It’s true that all death is, in a sense, a punishment of God inasmuch as much the entire creation has been subjected to futility (Rom.8:20) because of human rebellion. But there are no grounds for applying this individually. We could only know that a specific individual died as a result of a specific judgment of God by divine revelation, which is what Peter seems to have received regarding Ananias and Sapphira. Otherwise, Jesus teaches us that it is never our place to try to discern the hand of God in the way people die. We should rather restrict our focus to our own lives, making sure that we are not heading down the road Ananias and Sapphira went down by pushing the Giver of life away.

- See more at: How do you explain the violent judgement of Ananias and Sapphira? - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

I don't know who wrote this but I agree...God is not a killer..He is the bringer of life...Satan is the destroyer, and a killer. God does NOT kill humans.
Ok The writer was Gregg A Boyd
 
Loyal
So what did Ananias and Sapphire have? What did the first man Adam and his "help meet" [Eve] have before they sinned?

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:17

So unless God was a liar as the serpent stated...

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

...then Adam and Eve were dead from the moment they ate of the forbidden fruit. Does that not mean that every person born of them and of their offspring was also dead... until Jesus brought Life back to men [John 10:10]? Surely dead people cannot produce living people!

Adam and Eve were alive prior to eating of the fruit of that tree. They ate it and died. We all of us have been dead for we were born dead to our dead parents, but due to Jesus many of us have been "born again" and therefore Live.

Can we who lived like Adam choose to die again?

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No, no man can pluck us out of the Father's hand once we are there, but can we like the first man Adam choose to die? Can we choose to leave the Father's hand?

What did Ananias and Sapphira have before they lied to the Holy Ghost? Did they have the Life which Jesus brought and then choose to leave it in favor of death?

When does a person first receive Life [the Life which Jesus is]? Once a person had received Life could he then never again be dead to God? Is he better than the first man Adam?
 
Loyal
Can we who lived like Adam choose to die again?

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No, no man can pluck us out of the Father's hand once we are there, but can we like the first man Adam choose to die? Can we choose to leave the Father's hand?
No one can pluck us out of His hand. But we can certainly choose to leave on our own. Many choose to do that every day. Adam had eternal life.
He gave it away. We can do the same.
 
Active
Waggles just for the record I 100% know that once saved always saved is 100% scripture to say otherwise is simply not true.
A true believer is sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit, and receives a deposit or pledge of promise unto eternal life through faithfulness and by
being an overcomer. One does not have eternal life in this mortal time given realm. A saint will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye and the dead in Christ shall
also rise up to meet our Lord God Jesus in the air.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Corinthians 15:51-53
This first resurrection is when those who are risen up to be with Jesus forever, enter the eternities.

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:32-33

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory,
and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
Luke 9:26

He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father,
and before his angels.
Revelation 3:5

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.
Mathew 10:22
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mathew 24:12-13

6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Hebrews 3:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:13
sealed G4972 = sphragizō [sfrag-id'-zo] from G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively);
by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.
 
Active
No one can pluck us out of His hand. But we can certainly choose to leave on our own. Many choose to do that every day. Adam had eternal life.
He gave it away. We can do the same.

Woow, WooW, WooW.

Very well said. "Adam Had Eternal life. He gave it away."

Woow, how would someone who feels that you cannot lose your salvation respond to that ?
Would such a person deny that Adam had eternal life?

I'm reminded by an article I wrote on Salvation. I do agree that the Devil cannot pull us out of God the Father's hands.
I believe that. However I also believe that the Bible teaches we have free will.
Why do we have free will? Is it just something God put in us as an accessory? I think not.
I think the reason we have free will and therefore so some degree God has to respect our free will is
because God made us in His image. Get it? We are made in the image and likeness of God. God Himself has
freewill therefore creatures that he creates in His image(us) also have free will. In a sense God is affirming Himself by
respecting our freewill because we are created in His image.

In the article I wrote about Salvation basically I say that people unfortunately look at Salvation like an object.
They think it is an object to be had. Like a trophy that you get or a gift to unwrap and you put it on the shelf and now
you have Salvation. Instead I talk about how Salvation is Jesus. Salvation is having a relationship with Jesus.
When Jesus comes back those who have a relationship with Him are the ones that will be saved because He knows them. If you
don't have a relationship with Jesus (Child of God) God will not know you.

Salvation is Jesus.
Knowing Him will cause you to Love Him,
and those who Love Him(receive His love) will freely choose to serve Him.
 
Loyal
Job 31:33; "Have I covered my transgressions like Adam, By hiding my iniquity in my bosom,

Hos 6:7; But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me.

1 Cor 15:22; For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Rom 5:12; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:13; for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14; Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Rom 5:15; But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Rom 5:16; The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
Rom 5:17; For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18; So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

2 Cor 11:3; But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
Waggles just for the record I 100% know that once saved always saved is 100% scripture to say otherwise is simply not true.

once we are saved we are granted eternal life now, if its eternal we can not loose it, if you could loose it would not be eternal. This is not something that is interpreted this is fact. This is what the bible teaches.

Look up John 3-15 spend some time studding Romans,.
Agreed. My favorite pastors Charles Stanley and David Jeremiah preach this too. How can one lose their salvation if they're SAVED?

As for this passage, I think they were saved but God in this case set a stern public rebuke to set an example for the early church. Do not lie. That's one of the main points here. Lying is an abomination.

Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, But those who deal truthfully are His delight. - Proverbs 12:22
 
Loyal
Can someone show me where in scripture is says Adam and eve lost there salvation?
What we gain when we meet Jesus is the Life that was lost in the Garden of Eden. I would hesitate to conclude that those two first parents never regained Life for that is not my place, but neither is it my place to say without doubt that a person who has decided to go with Jesus is unable to change his mind along the way. That final judgment is not mine nor is it yours to make. The most important thing for us must always be "Charity" [Love]. If it really is and remains so to the end of our course, then most certainly we will have, [along with Jesus], overcome the world of our flesh. Who but Jesus has done that yet who still walks through the threads of this forum?
 
Loyal
Adam and Eve lived a long life they had plenty of time to repent, no where is it clear in scripture what happen to them. We can only speculated.
 
Active
Woow, WooW, WooW.

Very well said. "Adam Had Eternal life. He gave it away."

Woow, how would someone who feels that you cannot lose your salvation respond to that ?
Would such a person deny that Adam had eternal life?

I'm reminded by an article I wrote on Salvation. I do agree that the Devil cannot pull us out of God the Father's hands.
I believe that. However I also believe that the Bible teaches we have free will.
Why do we have free will? Is it just something God put in us as an accessory? I think not.
I think the reason we have free will and therefore so some degree God has to respect our free will is
because God made us in His image. Get it? We are made in the image and likeness of God. God Himself has
freewill therefore creatures that he creates in His image(us) also have free will. In a sense God is affirming Himself by
respecting our freewill because we are created in His image.

In the article I wrote about Salvation basically I say that people unfortunately look at Salvation like an object.
They think it is an object to be had. Like a trophy that you get or a gift to unwrap and you put it on the shelf and now
you have Salvation. Instead I talk about how Salvation is Jesus. Salvation is having a relationship with Jesus.
When Jesus comes back those who have a relationship with Him are the ones that will be saved because He knows them. If you
don't have a relationship with Jesus (Child of God) God will not know you.

Salvation is Jesus.
Knowing Him will cause you to Love Him,
and those who Love Him(receive His love) will freely choose to serve Him.

So I was talking to by Father about this, a retired( still active) minister from the church and he shared a perspective that I want to share.

It goes against what I previously stated in the post. To fully understand you must listen first and make judgments after. Otherwise you will tune it all out while you are reading it and miss what I'm trying to communicate.

So my father was saying that Adam and Eve never had eternal life. They had life that came from God but not the life of God. He states that just because God is the source of that life, it does not mean that it is the life of God. For example he stated that all life comes from God ultimately but all life is not the life of God(Eternal life). His example was animals, their life came from God but they don't have eternal life.

Now back to Adam and Eve, it is clearly noted that they had life and that their ability to live on and on was being sustained by the tree of life. It was not that they already had eternal life but that the tree of life allowed them to continue to live. Which is why after they sin the concern was not that they were now stained for eternity because they had eternal life, but the concern was that they should not eat again from the tree which give them life continuously (Daily Bread) to sustain them one day at a time. If they already had eternal life to begin with God would had to have taken it away from them for them to lose it, but since they didn't have eternal life, but had the opportunity to be renewed eternally each day by the tree of life, the solution was just to cut their access to the tree of life.

Genesis 3:22: "[COLOR=#b35900]Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—[/COLOR]”

In terms of being in the presence of God or walking with God. My father stated that Adam and Eve were in the presence of God and God's glory reflected on them because they were close to Him in terms of relationship, but they did not have the life of God(eternal life) which is the Holy Spirit living in them. It is only because of the death of Jesus that we now have the ability to have God in us. Not just with us as Adam did, but surely inside of us. His eternal life.

Let me know your thoughts.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Chad Bible Discussions 3

Similar threads


Top