An Argument Againts Once Saved Always Saved

[DHC]

• The potential difference between the two of us that is , I really know; can't say about others. You have no way of knowing that; it is like I said, God knows, not man, and that's all that is important to me.
• Also, another possible contention for disagreement are the two verses you quoted: To me, they are truly about non-believers and Jesus will separate them out at judgement, that is the meaning of the verses!
• There are Head Christians and there are Heart Christians. Head Christians know of Jesus as well as anyone, Satin for one! Heart Christians have Christ in them; that is the separation factor. Add no, there are no verses that point this out directly Per Se...I just know!
• B.T.W., if you don't agree that Satin is a "Head Christian", who do you think the Anti-Christ will be?

Hello RJ.

What you have stated above is incorrect RJ.

So I will ask you as I asked B-A-C, what is the common failing of both groups below.

Matthew 7-21:23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he
who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on
that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out
demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Matthew 25:41-43
Then He will also say to those on His left, Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the
eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry,
and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me;
sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’

 

[RJ]

Hello RJ.

What you have stated above is incorrect RJ.

So I will ask you as I asked B-A-C, what is the common failing of both groups below.

Matthew 7-21:23
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he
who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on
that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out
demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Matthew 25:41-43
Then He will also say to those on His left, Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the
eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry,
and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me;
sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’

• I already stated that, unbelief, not having Christ in you , is the common failing ; there can be nothing else.
• All who are separated out and will be cast into the fiery furnace for all eternity!
• "Then He will also say to those on His left"...Who in the world do you think Jesus is talking about: "those on his left"?
• What might be incorrect for you ,please, it is certainly not for me brother!

 

[farout]

I am a born again christian. Tell me how I can be removed from my Fathers hand, or the Holy Spirit removed from me, that is supposed to be my deposit as a seal to assure me of eternal life. Does the Holy Father just drop me? Does the Holy Sprit just leave me? If so then Hebrews 6 says there is no way to repent and to become saved again right?

 

[DHC]

• I already stated that, unbelief, not having Christ in you , is the common failing ; there can be nothing else.
• All who are separated out and will be cast into the fiery furnace for all eternity!
• "Then He will also say to those on His left"...Who in the world do you think Jesus is talking about: "those on his left"?
• What might be incorrect for you ,please, it is certainly not for me brother!

Hello RJ.

Thanks for taking the time to reply my friend.

You did say;

I already stated that, unbelief, not having Christ in you , is the common failing ; there can be nothing else.

I am afraid that there is a marked shortfall in both the quotations.

I do respect your belief system though and who am I to judge. But there is an
obvious characteristic that is absent in both (Matthew 7:21-23) and (Matthew 25:41-42).

In the first quotation they do utter 'Lord, Lord', so we know RJ that these folk
are fully aware of Jesus Christ. So the issue is not the Gospel itself RJ. Even further RJ,
they are exercising the power of the Holy Spirit. We can see that by 'and in Your name perform
many miracles'. These folk are believers and performing the same acts that the apostles
were performing to boot. Something is missing though RJ and it is vital.

In the next quotation the same component is missing for example;
'for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat'. In fact, the second quotation
should have given you the clue to the missing component in the Christian works.

John 13:35
By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

John 15:9
Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.

John 15:12
This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

John 15:17
This I command you, that you love one another.

Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts
through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Romans 12:10
Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;

Love is absent in both the quotations RJ. There should be no doubt that the reason
these people were unknown to God was that they had not been sanctified. Love is
the principle commandment of Jesus Christ. Above all else we must exude the
unconditional love that the Holy Spirit pours into our hearts. Everything that God
ever does is underlined by love itself. For God so loved...

The sanctification is wrought by God but the recipient must be willing to receive.

 

[james1523]

I am a born again christian. Tell me how I can be removed from my Fathers hand, or the Holy Spirit removed from me, that is supposed to be my deposit as a seal to assure me of eternal life. Does the Holy Father just drop me? Does the Holy Sprit just leave me? If so then Hebrews 6 says there is no way to repent and to become saved again right?

I have shared my perspective on a believer's rewards or punishments previously. What is your interpretation? Is it just heaven or hell or is there something in between? The idea of purgatorial punishment has been around for a very long time. Protestant theology makes no room for such a suggestion, in its rejection of Catholic thought. But I believe it has gone too far, and ignored the matter of reward and punishment completely, which is clearly revealed in the Scriptures. Is eternal hellfire the only form of punishment that God can deliver? Since when did "few stripes" and "many stripes" (Luke 12:48) equal eternal torment in hellfire?

The problem with OSAS, is that those saved eternally cannot be punished for their sins. In a way this makes God out to be unjust. It doesn't matter how you live your life on earth because you are always saved - you are not held to account for anything.

The problem with non-OSAS, is that the believer's faithfulness or performance on Earth determines their eternal destiny. In a way this takes away from Christ's work on the cross and puts the emphasis on ourselves -it matters how you live your life on earth.

I believe OSAS with punishment or reward is the teaching of Scripture:

Scripture teaches that punishment or reward is proportional to the crime (Luke 12:48).

Scripture teaches that the believer's life is reviewed (2 Cor 5:10, Rom 14:10) - If we believe in OSAS, this review must be for reward or punishment. If we don't believe in OSAS, this review is for entrance into heaven or hell.

Jesus says He comes with rewards based according to what we have done (Rev 22:1) - for the non-OSAS believer, the reward must be heaven or hell.

Consider the gospels as a whole, there are more than just saved and unsaved people.
There are saved and rewarded (profitable servants), saved and unrewarded (e.g. unprofitable servants), saved and punished (e.g. wicked servants), and unsaved (unbelievers).

There are faithful believers and unfaithful believers. All believers are saved eternally but not all believers escape punishment and not all believers receive full rewards.

Scripture reveals a reward is to sit with Christ on His throne, or made a ruler over many cities. A possible punishment is being cast into outer darkness.

It is an interesting exercise to go through the book of Revelation, and note the various rewards given to "He who overcomes".