all knowing...

[sebi]

i've got a question that's been bugging me for quite a while... i can't seem to fing an answer to suit me.

Mark 13:32 says that nobody except God the Father knows the day when Jesus is to return. I don't understand how can both Jesus and The Holy Spirit be all knowing, if They do not know when this day is to come...

any insight on this...?

 

[Faithful Son]

I have edited my last post brother. Faith is the key.

Second Coming Of Christ

Please click on that link, read through it and ask God to reveal His plan to you.

Like I said before I edited, I have also been thinking about this issue. Let us take into account that we are believers in Christ Jesus. Therefore, we believe. We believe what He tells us and we believe in God.

The Bible says only Father knows when Jesus will return. The Bible also says that the Holy Spirit knows the deepest thoughts of God:

1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

If we read the above verse, we should acknowledge and be thankful that only, only the Holy Spirit knows the thoughts of God.

It is continued:

1 Corinthians 2:11
12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.

Now we know, through the power and might of the Holy Spirit can we truly know what God has in store for us. What did Jesus say about the Holy Spirit?

John 7:33-39
33Therefore Jesus said, "For a little while longer I am with you, then I go to Him who sent Me.

34"You will seek Me, and will not find Me; and where I am, you cannot come."

35The Jews then said to one another, "Where does this man intend to go that we will not find Him? He is not intending to go to the Dispersion among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks, is He?

36"What is this statement that He said, 'You will seek Me, and will not find Me; and where I am, you cannot come'?"

37Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.

38"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"

39But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The Holy Spirit was given to us when Jesus was glorified. If we believe in Jesus we have the Spirit, He is truth.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit does not know the day, only the Father. Even if the Spirit knows the deepest thoughts of God, He does not know when Jesus will return.

We should keep watch, always looking, for the Spirit will not tell us when Jesus will return, because He does not know. And how will Father tell us when Jesus will return if He does not even tell God?

Let us not be deceived any longer, for the Father knows, and He alone. Let's have faith in our Mighty Father.

God bless
Much love
teraside

 

[Chad]

I believe that when Jesus said only the Father knows, at least He did not know from His human nature, but from His divine nature - he knows all of course. I'm sure someone else can clarify deeper as well.

Its a good question

 

[sebi]

i see your point Chad... Still, Jesus says that ONLY the FATHER knows this - that seems to exclude both Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Even if Jesus does reffer to His human nature, that leaves out the Holy Spirit...
Thanks for your efforts though...

 

[sebi]

I finally had the chance to come home from university for Easter and talked to my dad about this issue... He's the one that i normally discuss biblical matters like this one. He said that the second coming of Jesus might not be part of God's decreed. God the Father will decide it in the future. One day He might just say to His Son: "It is time to go back". It somehow explains why the Son and the Holy Spirit don't know about this event... Still, because God is not limited to time, and is all present (in the timeline), it still surpasses my logic why the second and third persons don’t know the date of this event.

 

[Pedronewt]

...Still, because God is not limited to time, and is all present (in the timeline), it still surpasses my logic why the second and third persons don’t know the date of this event.

I think that maybe God is limited to time but not in a durational sense, for He has existed eternally. He is limited to one locality in the "time line", the present, but is omnipresent, or physically everywhere, at this present moment. Maybe the past is just that, the past and can not be changed, and the future has not happened yet giving us hope for a better future. So that when He has influence events and the right time has come, the Father will bring forth into the present reality the plan that He has had, the Triumphant return of the Messiah.

The trinity while unified relationally through common purpose and humility are three distinct personages. Thus the "Triune" God. Tri = three, une = unity. Three unified personages acting as one.

these are just my thoughts, hope they help

 

[justsavedvince]

Jesus' Second Coming?

If Jesus was God, why does he not know the hour in which the end will come and the hour that he will return. He said that only the Father knows. This question was asked by one of my students in a "Disciple Now" camp last weekend and I couldn't answer it because I myself didn't know.

 

[Faithful Son]

Let's think of it this way guys.

I've got a son, he's about 18 years old. I tell him as soon as he graduates he'll get a new car. Finally he graduates and he gets that car right? Right, because I told him what would happen.

In this case, the Father told Jesus He will have to return for His church one day, but did Father tell Jesus when?Like I mentioned above, only the Holy Spirit knows the deepest thoughts of God, but He does not know when Jesus will return.

Is God the Father withholding information from Jesus? Or is Jesus submissive to the Father? The latter is what matters here. Jesus is the same, today, tomorrow, forever. Why would He change once He is seated in Heaven?

Jesus knows, that Father knows, but Jesus doesn't know what Father knows, and God is one. Does this mean Jesus is not all knowing? I guess it does, He knows all, except when He will return.

Why? Because He has to have faith in His Father, like He had faith in Him when He was on earth, He has to have faith in Him when He is heaven,

This is an extremely literal approach to that text passage, but to me, it's the best approach, the other clarifications and approaches to this take away parts of Jesus, who He is and what He does. Jesus would not change, ever, that is the truth.

God bless
Much love
teraside

 

[sebi]

i was reading your post, teraside, for the second time, trying to understand it better... And all of a sudden i kind'a realised that the way we're thinking is, i guess, childish. Here's what struck me... After reading the Bible passage, your post, and the other posts here, i got to the conclusion that we both think that Jesus knows everything except when He will return. Everything except the time of this event. But then, some questions came into my mind... Does He know the second before and after His return? Does He know how He will return? Does He know what He will be doing when He is to return? Does he know who will He take to heaven before returning? Considering our way of thinking, He does. But that implies that He knows when He will return (if He knows everything except that tiny moment). I hope i didn't loose you on the way... The point i want to make is that it's starting to look to me that this is not for us to know. That even though it seems irrational and impossible, i just have to take it the way it is.

still looking forward to see other thoughts....

 

[Faithful Son]

You got it brother. You know one of the many things mentioned in the Bible has been on my mind since about 3 days ago.

Paul said it here:

1 Corinthians 15:14-16
14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.

To me it's about bearing witness, true witness, not false. If we have faith in Jesus and we do not acknowledge that He has the same nature now in Heaven as which He had on earth, we are bearing false witness.

If you are a false witness, you have a false testimony and Jesus told us to be quite sure that we do not commit the sin of giving false testimony.

Matthew 19:16-19
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"

17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

18"Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"

I hope you understand what my spirit is saying, we have to take it like it is, accepting, having faith and knowing, that we can never and will never know what God knows, but we will for sure know that God will reveal His plans to us through His Word, but not that which is not revealed to Jesus first.

God bless
Much love
teraside