Alcohol

[Chad]

Sister sunshine, a study bible comes useful and I believe a gift from the Holy Spirit Himself. I did not say that directly at Maureen, but people in general who misinterpret Scripture here and there. The thread is 4 pages long quoting both sides of drinking: the good and the bad. Its evident some people here think Jesus never drank, while others quoted Jesus drinking. Some of this confusion is the result of people quoting Scripture without actually studying it, hence why I said its a good idea to get a study bible.

Would the Holy Spirit not want us to study the Word instead of just reading it? We can be guided by the Holy Spirit who gives insight and wisdom to all, but does this mean we are free to refrain from studying this precious Word? I don't think so. Its obvious that people just quote away without deeper understanding of what the meaning is in the verse(s) they've quoted.

Chad, Maureen did say she is listening to the Holy Spirit, not assuming what Scripture *might* say.

That's fine, but anyone can listen to the Holy Spirit and still not properly study the Word. I'm not saying anyone here specifically, but people in general. So therefore, the reading without the studying becomes useless if one does not truly understand what he or she is reading.

 

[Maureen]

Thank you Sunshine for your great words of encouragement.
For a moment I knew how David felt when the Philistines were coming.

But as I said before it is between us and God,

The Holy Spirit prompts me when I'm unsure of the situation up front.

I have been guided by him on many occasions, and am so thankful
for the help of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for your suggestion of a study Bible Fellowservant
but I've managed this far so thus farther will be best if I lean on
the one who is guiding me by the way.

Seems like some cannot look at things in another perspective without becoming all indignant.

No animosity here brother, alls well with my soul

Let us feast on the fruit of the spirit.

Proverbs 13 V 10
Only by pride cometh contention, but with the well advised is wisdom.

 

[Fellowservant]

The Holy Spirit will keep each of us in check, and on the narrow path.
If we listen to him we cannot go wrong.
I have no problem with anyone if they want to drink,
that's their choice, I choose not to, that's my choice.

Thats exactly what them scriptures i gave you are saying, this is Paul speeking in them scriptures not me. So if you disagree its not with me, but with Paul and the scriptures he used. Plus he said this is the lord speaking here not him, or he was persuaded that nothing was unclean (Ie food and drink) by the lord, unless you thought it was unclean. He also says what you just said, if you think that drinking is wrong for you, then it is wrong for you.


But it goes even further and warns not to listen to seducing spirits who contradict the written word. And yes people can go wrong by ignorrance, there are lots of cults out there who claim to have the holy spirit, but are full of heresy. So be carefull...

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

The above scripture is a warning to anyone who commands men not to do something that is not forbidden by the word.

And it was'nt me who recommended a bible study aid. But i will recommend to take heed to these scriptures, as well as myself.


God bless sister...

 

[Maureen]

Apoligies it was not yourself FS ref the study Bible

I have had much Bible Study, on a weekly basis from our Pastor
he is a young man very much on fire for God, our church is Evangelical.

I read the word regularly, I do know about so many differant cults
out there brother, I have a daughter in law in one, Jehovah Witnesses.

thank you for your concern, it is a difficult subject really,
because my unsaved husband's first words were, sure Jesus turned
the water into wine.
Which I'm sure is a stumbling block for many a one.
Proverbs 15 V 1
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger


Know what, a lovely elderly Christian lady told me once, now she
was saved young and both her and her husband wouldn't even have
a TV in their home, never did.
She always said, the first person that will tell you your doing wrong
in your Christian life is the unsaved.

Over the years I've found her words to be true.

It may have something to do with us setting a good example.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to even get involed in this
thread, it has gone on a bit.

Take care, Lordbless your coming in and your going out.

 

[Cody]

Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

What is everyones thoughts on this verse?

 

[ladylovesJesus]

I read it like this in the message Bible

Prov.31

4-7 "Leaders can't afford to make fools of themselves,
gulping wine and swilling beer,
Lest, hung over, they don't know right from wrong,
and the people who depend on them are hurt.
Use wine and beer only as sedatives,
to kill the pain and dull the ache
Of the terminally ill,
for whom life is a living death.

God bless :rainbow: :rose:

 

[Maureen]

Just as it says in Timothy
1 Timothy 5 V 23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

 

[Lady Jane]

Uh, fellowservant, what I cant understand is why you are defending alcohol so relentlessly, so strongly, and so insistently. Yeah, sure, alcohol was used medicinally in those days but the main reason ppl drank wine in those days was because it was cleaner than the water!!! and, take note, wine was very expensive, only the middle and rich classes could afford it so it was a sign of wealth, not something commonly drank by just everyone.
If alcohol is so "alright" then surely it can speak for itself without you defending it. Just a thought.

God Bless brother

 

[MAJ52653]

Don't fence me out

Uh, fellowservant, what I cant understand is why you are defending alcohol so relentlessly, so strongly, and so insistently. Yeah, sure, alcohol was used medicinally in those days but the main reason ppl drank wine in those days was because it was cleaner than the water!!! and, take note, wine was very expensive, only the middle and rich classes could afford it so it was a sign of wealth, not something commonly drank by just everyone.
If alcohol is so "alright" then surely it can speak for itself without you defending it. Just a thought.

God Bless brother

Mainly it is being defended even by teetotlers like myself because adding "fence laws" to God's laws never works. It didn't work for the Pharisees, it certainly didn't work for Eve. She added "or even touch it" to God's law not to eat the fruit. Her decendents are found all over, adding more commandments to God's, since He obviously didn't make enough or left the ones He made not cover every knit picky detail.
As to the availibility of wine in Palestine in the first century, try doing research instead of making things up. It saves embarrassment when you run into those who know actual facts.

 

[Chad]

MAJ, I agree. Scripture states clearly that drunkedness is a sin. It does not forbid drinking itself, just drunkedness.

I drink alcohol. Who here wants to condemn me for drinking? Will you assume I'm not a Christian or not Holy Spirit filled? Before you point your fingers my way, study the Word and pray for GOD's guidance.

Brother Fellowservant is not defending alcohol so "relentelessly". What he is merely doing is defending the Scripture because it is Truth.

 

[Lady Jane]

This is getting just too much

I would like to say for the record that i was not attacking or pointing the finger at anyone. People make their own choices and it's between them and God so it's nothing to do with me! And Maj, there's no need to attack me that way. I would like to know how much YOU know about the historical and social situation that existed centuries ago. Can you tell me what the paradigm was back then in palestine? For goodness sake people! This argument about alcohol has so much potential to take a nasty turn and I know for sure that's not what God wants to happen between us since we all serve Him and are christians... I'm going to drop out of this while I'm ahead. Good luck and God bless.

Lady J

 

[Maureen]

I have heard it said before that the wine in Bible times was diluted 4 parts to 1 part 4 being water.

I think I came across something to that effect in the Bible but can't find it again, maybe someone else knows where, or it could have been a commentary.

Song of Solomon 8 v 2 I would cause thee to drink of spiced wine of the juice of my pomegranate.

surely this verse is relating the juice of fruits as wine, which then could be misleading as fruit juice is non alcoholic, perhaps they were drinking that and just calling it wine, as grape juice produces wine but so does the juice of grapes produce Shloer, grape juice.

I have said before I think it is in our personal relationship with Jesus how we use this 'wine' what then for other alcohol drinks or do all Christians drink only wine those who part-take?
Are we saying it's okay to drink beer, or spirits? even the advertisements on TV are proclaiming it's detremental effects on the body.

What then would the 'world' have to say bout us as Christians if we are drinkers. As unbelievers are the first to correct Christians in their walk and we don't want to carry Jesus name wrongly.

 

[Maureen]

Just today I came across a witing I had and it is just about WINE and Dr.M.R.De Haan, to quote him says,
It is abuse of wine rather than the use of wine whice is strongly condemned in the Scriptures.
Personally I do not use it, and I wish that we could eliminate it entirely. But it is well to remember that the use of wine does not mean the abuse of wine.
Certainly it was never meant to be used for the purpose of intoxication, and I believe that it would be a great deal better not to use it at all, seeing the evil to which it often leads.
again not MY words.

Mr. Stein explains: the fruit of the vine used at the institution of the Lord's Supper was a mixture of three parts water to one part wine.

I new I read it somewhere, there it is.

 

[Chad]

Mr.Stein expressed his opinion, which I agree on. We must always look at Scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to grant us wisdom and understanding of His Word, ultimately.

 

[Maureen]

Hallelujah

Chad did you get my P.M. would you let me know please.

What more could anyone say, we must first turn to the scriptures for confirmation indeed.
If it's not written, then it's not worthy.

 

[Cody]

I listened to a sermon on the website Sermon Audio about alcohol. Stephen Hamilton brings up many good points, uses the Bible and history to prove himself. It is 59 minutes, but worth listening to. I hope this may help someone on this issue. God Bless

The Christian & Alcohol - Why Abstain?

 

[Maureen]

Cody2
yes, now what more need WE say?
everyone should listen to this, I hope all on this thread do.
I didn't want him to finish, will listen over again.
Thank you for this Brother.

 

[Cody]

Thanks for listening to it, Maureen. I thought it was very interesting how he explained how back in the Bible days, the wine wasn't as alcoholic as it is today.
Today beer and wine are put through a process that makes it stronger than it was back a long time ago. Also, he pointed out many facts. Alcohol has led to so many car accidents, murders, rapes, violence, divorces and etc.

 

[Maureen]

Know what Cody I live with a husband who drinks, he's not an alcoholic, or drunkard as the Bible would have us term them as proper, neither a Christian.

In 35yrs I've had my fair share of 'mental' abuse through drink,
which has effected me in ways.

I do term alcohol as the 'Demon drink' I know I've experienced it.

It is best left alone, I pray they manage to do something about it as they have managed with the smoking. As the young and even the older do binge drink, hubby does.

No wonder the Lord tells us not to touch strong drink that it is raging, how true.

I hope no-one has to suffer at it's cost,

 

[Chad]

Sister Maureen, I agree with the "demon drink" and "strong drink", put together that is. In my personal experience, I've learned that one too many hard drinks (or mixed) led me to an angry state of mind I would not normally have without the drink otherwise. I hate beer and do not drink beer, but beer back in the old days never did the same to me as hard drinks would. Wine I drink with dinner every now and then. If anything, it makes me sleepy eventually.

One thing to keep in mind for anyone who drinks with the wrong reasons:

your problems, worries, concerns that you try to "drink off" for the moment will remain the same. Therefore, to get buzzed, drunk and stupid will not solve your life's issues and only hurt your body and mental state as well.