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Discussion in 'Bible Answers' started by Chad, Nov 6, 2006.

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  1. Chad
    my son has just come to faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Just last week, he's 28 and is reading the Bible greatly, he wants to read from Genesis to Revelation, I mind trying and exhausted myself but he seems to be plowing ahead fine, only thing is, he hasn't read any of the New Testament, and is in the Old, concerned about God wanting sacrifice, which I explained Jesus paid the full cost of our Salvation.

    He was more concerned with God requiring Wine with the sacrifes but again Jesus has covered that gloriously.

    He would sit at night and drink red wine, he wouldn't get drunk he knows what it says in the bible about drunkerds, or drunkeness, can it be okay to just drink red wine like this now that he's made a profession of Christianity.

    He's greatly on Fire for the Lord, Hallelujah,
    He's had 2 broken marraiges, the last one was to a Jehovah Witness and our Lord brought him out of it, with much prayer.

    Also my wee Uncle of 80yrs also got saved, last week after 54 years of church going the Lord graciously came down with faith.
  2. My view on alcohol is that it is ok to have one or two drinks - but not get drunk. When drunk (im speaking from experience) something else is in control of the body and i dont like that idea anymore!.

    Personlly a few times a year i will have a few beers or a whisky...but never to the extent i get drunk anymore.
  3. Brother willb I am not getting at you now when I say this but please answer me this one thing, why, if you only have this a few times a YEAR, why do you have it? Is it on special occasions or the like?

    Just curious that's all, as I've often thought what is the point of drinking one or 2 glasses,
    I don't see the point, what is there to gain, but then it's only a personal viewpoint.
    No offence brother, none mean't.
  4. To flip it round whats the point of drinking more than a few... that would be to get drunk which in my opinion is sin (disobedience to God).

    Why do i have a few, cause i like the taste of beer and when having a few with a friend we are able to relax. Nothing more than that to it, i have always had the perspective that drinking to get drunk defeats the purpose but since becoming a Christian i am more reserved still, drinking few and occasionally.
  5. okay willb
    understood, differant for me, tried going socializing when I first got saved, only drinking coke too, I can't drink due to migraine headaches, but I just was pricked in my conscience over it, didn't feel right being there, and have never done it again.
    See I've heard unbeliever's saying 'they call themselves a Christian and they're in the bar drinking, no differant from me.'

    Aren't we called to be set apart, there must be a differance.

    Then a little tag WWJD What Would Jesus Do, struck me sometime ago, and when I apply that to the bar, could I see Jesus standing there having a drink, can you? I can't.

    How can we represent Christ with alcohol flowing freely around us?
    Would the company there want to hear about Jesus with their drink?

    I think it's an area we all have to find out for ourselves.

    I know people who go giving out gospel tracts in the town at weekends, now why don't they go inside the bar, they wait outside and stop the people coming out hand them a tract and try to speak to them.

    Not meaning to offend willb again, just airing some points I think are worth telling.
  6. Umm i didnt mention going out.... i dont do that really at all its in my flat with a friend.

    But since you mention it what would Jesus do...who did He sit with? did He set Himself apart from sinners or reach out to them in a humble and meek way?
  7. Yes I know but in a bar setting?
    sorry for surmizing it was 'out' you were, yes could see Jesus in our homes definatly as He did do that while on this earth.

    Have often thought on a 'Matthew Party' for that very reason, inviting the unsaved as well and not all Christians. Sometime in the not so distant future I pray.
  8. Hi, my thinking with the bar thing....i think Jesus would go into those kind of places...would He drink i dont know but would He go...i think yes. Jesus was interested in reaching sinners and went to the places sinners goto....i think He would do the same today. I know my pastor goes out here, he has only been here for a few months but with the people in the bar getting to know him the talk does turn to God and he has managed to break a lot of misconceptions about Christianity just by being like Jesus.
  9. Well done for your Pastor willb
    I would love to be able, and I know we can do anything in Christ who strengthens us, I just know I would not do well for Jesus in that setting, perhaps if there were other Christians in the company, maybe, but not alone.

    I have saw a room clear in a house when the gospel is spoken about, I have ended up in the room alone, or with just one of my sons, it was he who noticed that happen. He then actually got saved himself only last week, Praise our God. Nothing to do with what I was saying believe me, he had an encounter himself and knew the power of God personally.

    Sometimes how wonder just how can we reach the unsaved, I think if we as Christians got together on a large scale the 'world' would have to notice.
  10. I dont think there is a key way to reach non Christians other than being true to Christ....we could be anywhere....and if the Holy Spirit convicts someone by our words....that could be anywhere, God is unpredictable and can save from anywhere...all He needs is for us to go and obey Him when He tells us to speak :).

    Even bars cannot keep the Spirit out :) i dont know how many have been saved in such a place but God can do it....all we can do is pray for others and God will come upon hearts in His good time.

    Praise God for the salvation of your son that is wonderful news.
  11. and my uncle 80yrs old in the same week. He'd been going to church for 54years and saved now.

    Praise God for them both with more to follow.
  12. What would Jesus do?

    Ok, this is tricky. Some may think Jesus would in fact go to a bar to reach out to sinners. They use "Jesus sat with taxpayers and collector's" incident mentioned in the gospel of Matthew. This is a tricky one because think of this now:

    Would Jesus sit with sinners at a "gentlemens club" (strip club). Absolutely not.

    Would Jesus sit with sinners at a death metal rock concert (say, Marilyn Manson for example)? I truly believe He would not.

    Keep in mind, everyone is a sinner so it does not matter where the setting is, people are all sinners regardless. If Jesus did not sit with sinners then He would have no one to sit with at all. Look at the Scripture as well, the taxpayers and collectors came to Him. This looks like they were curious, or at least interested in who Jesus was and what He had to share in conversation at the dinner table.

    Also, this was at a dinner table. Not a bar, rock concert, filthy club or Buddhist temple. It was at a person's house.

    Matthew 9:9-14

    Matthew the Tax Collector

    9 As Jesus passed on from there, He saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, “Follow Me.” So he arose and followed Him.
    10 Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
    12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’<sup> </sup>For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

    I think sister Maureen made an excellent point here:

    This is a great point and pretty much I say this clears out any questioning of what Jesus would do as well. Remember, He says "follow me". I know it goes deeper than just telling the sinners to follow Him, but it all comes down to the sinner to be interested (in faith/belief) of who Jesus is or reject Him and walk away from His offer of Salvation.

    I personally do not think it makes any sense to be inside a bar trying to preach to someone. It would be more efficient to hand out tracs to all walking in or out, outside the bar. Inside the bar, you have (likely) a loud crowd, loud music and much booz. Its a drunken atmosphere (likely). Sitting at the bar gives you a chance to talk to one person at a time. By handing tracs outside the bar to everyone, your using time more wisely and reaching out more efficiently. Your also less intruding on their purpose of being at the bar. After all, you do not want to get in their way and annoy them, otherwise you've already lost potential to reach out to them.
  13. Here is something helpful which I read today and may help others here.

    I never knew that drunkenness was different to being an alcoholic.

    Myths and Facts about Alcohol Consumption
    Stephen Arterburn and Jim Burns
    Editor's Note: This is Part II in a two-part series on alcohol and your teen. Click here to read Part I.

    Many myths surround the use and abuse of alcohol. But the most destructive of all is the belief that being able to drink a large quantity of alcohol is a sign of strength. In reality, a high tolerance for alcohol?being able to “hold your liquor”?is a sign of budding alcoholism. It is the one thing all alcoholics have in common.

    One day, we sat in an office with a teen and his parents listening to the teen’s alcohol abuse story. He boasted he could drink a six-pack of beer without being fazed. In fact, he said he would drive others home after consuming 15 to 18 beers at a party. He was trying to make the point that he could handle liquor. Until we explained the reality of high tolerance, he didn’t realize that he perfectly described his need for help to cure his disease of alcoholism.

    How Well Do You “Hold Your Liquor”?

    Most people have an automatic limiting mechanism that prevents them from developing a high tolerance to alcohol. Drunkenness, illness, or sleep occur when large quantities of alcohol are consumed. The tolerance level stays basically the same throughout life, though many would argue that a growing tolerance is developed over time. It is true that tolerance goes up a bit for most people, but for the alcoholic, the rise is either dramatic or tolerance is high from the first drink. In the world of drinking, the alcoholic veers off on a path that has only one end?addiction to the chemical.

    Problem Drinking and Drunkenness

    Alcoholism is not to be confused with drunkenness. Many alcoholics have such a high tolerance that they are rarely drunk. They drink a great deal but are often able to stop just before losing control. A family might live with an alcoholic for a lifetime and never see the person drunk. Only in the later stages of life, when a deteriorating and aging body loses its ability to contain vast quantities of alcohol, do many alcoholics drink until they lose control.

    Drunkenness, however, can happen to anyone who has any level of tolerance. Some people are drunk on one drink. If that is the case, the Bible forbids them to drink because it condemns drunkenness, and rightfully so. Drunkenness is a big killer in our society.

    The Bible clearly states, “Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit” (Ephesians 5:18). Drunkenness is a counterfeit for being filled with the Spirit. It is a form of escape and a maladaptive coping mechanism. Anyone who gets drunk is a problem drinker and needs help. The sin needs to be confessed, and the behavior changed. Unfortunately, when teenagers drink, most drink to get drunk. That is why teenage drinking is always considered problem drinking. It is illegal, and most of the time it is also immoral.


    Having been raised in Texas in a conservative Christian home, I (Steve) heard many sermons on alcoholism. The preacher always referred to the alcoholic as a drunkard. A biblical passage on drunkenness would be used to condemn that person, implying that the person had chosen alcoholism and would spend the remainder of his (they were always considered males) days in a drunken stupor.

    Receiving this perspective early in life, my acceptance of the facts about alcoholism and drunkenness did not come easily. But eventually I learned the truth about the biblical perspective. It’s been a great help in understanding alcoholics and assisting them in their recovery.

    The Bible doesn’t address the condition of alcoholism. It only speaks to us about drinking and drunkenness. Many ministers think of a drunk man on skid row drinking out of a bottle when they think of an alcoholic. But that is the exception rather than the rule. Only about 5 percent of all alcoholics make it to skid row. The other 95 percent are drinking and functioning in jobs, schools, churches, and in families. Many people have no idea these people are alcoholics.

    The Sin Issue

    Some of you reading this are no doubt eager to know whether we believe drinking is a sin. This is a difficult area; Christians hold varied views. However, from our study of Scripture, our work with thousands of young people, and our own experiences, we have arrived at the following beliefs. We don’t expect everyone to agree, but we hope this list will stimulate the reader to think through his or her stance.

    Drunkenness is always a sin. Scripture is clear on this, a fact that can’t be rationalized away. Those who repeatedly become intoxicated need to confess their sin and obtain whatever help is needed to overcome it. Parents should sit down with their children to explain the sinful nature of drunkenness and why God has so clearly forbidden it.

    Drinking is definitely a sin for some people. For the general population, no specific Scriptures forbid wine consumption in small amounts. Some Scriptures do, however, forbid alcohol consumption if it causes another person a spiritual problem. Whenever a spouse is bothered by the other spouse’s drinking, for instance, it is the drinker’s responsibility to stop drinking to prevent the mate from stumbling. But the rightness and wrongness of drinking is an even broader issue.

    In our society, with so much damage being done by drinking, many who think it is okay to drink need to reexamine the practice. Alcohol is a dangerous chemical. A person may not drive drunk, but we now know that alcohol damages brain cells and other body tissues. And for us parents who have to be concerned about the behaviors we are modeling, abstinence is the best choice.

    Alcoholism is an issue separate from sin. This condition develops from years of (often abusive) drinking, so sin occurs long before the onset of alcoholism. When a person develops alcoholism, compassion rather than judgment should be offered. Direction instead of condemnation is needed. The alcoholic?addicted, sick, and irrational?will respond better to the love of a helpful person than to the anger of one who doesn’t understand. Is alcoholism a sin? The more important question is whether you are prepared to help a fellow sinner.

    The Alcoholism Progression

    Most people think alcoholics are weak people who cannot cope with life. That is not true. In all my years of working with them, I (Steve) have rarely seen a weak alcoholic. What I usually see is a person of phenomenal strength and stamina. Only a strong person could go to work hungover, be in withdrawal, crave a drink, have nerves agitated and irritated, and still function well for years. Only in the latter stages do I find the effects of alcoholism producing weakness within the person.

    God bless

    LLJ :love: :rainbow: :rose:
  14. Very interesting material. Thanks, LLJ. I never realized the difference between an alcoholic and a drunkard.
  15. It is in scripture that drunkard's will not make it into heaven.

    For me I can't not drink, I did have a problem with it, but the Lord took it away from me. Praise Jesus!!!

    I believe it is up to every person and their walk with the Lord. I know the Lord does not like drunkards.

    We went to Madra Gra this past Feb, and witnessed Christ to people. That was the only scripture the drunks used, "Jesus turned water into wine" I heard that so many times I mean many,many times. I told one lady well go get me a glass of water and if you can turn it into wine then you can drink. That got her quiet for awhile.

    in His service,
  16. #76 Maureen, Jul 13, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2007
    Great Post LLJ and Chad, thank you for your mention.

    'It would be more efficient to hand out tracs to all walking in or out, outside the bar. Inside the bar, you have (likely) a loud crowd, loud music and much booz. Its a drunken atmosphere (likely). Sitting at the bar gives you a chance to talk to one person at a time. By handing tracs outside the bar to everyone, your using time more wisely and reaching out more efficiently.' said by Chad (can't figure out how to do quote, sorry)
    I so whole heartedly agree with all you've said on the point.

    Yes Faithworks, I to hear that scripture quoted time out of number like it is a licience to drink. I was only toying it over in my own head last night, as hubby went of on the drink again, he now blames it on my being a Christain and not liking him drinking, he forgets he's done it all our married life, and it's the mental abuse that's the problem of course that stems from the drink, why can't he see that, he does, as he's told me he knows he says wrong things to me but he can't help it, I told him Satan was using him well for himeself.
  17. I can understand your thoughts truly I can little sister,
    I had no intention of causing any disrumption on here over this, it was something I wanted to discuss, because of being mentaly abused by alcohol, over some period of many years.

    It has actually lead to diminished love for my spouse.

    This is turn is so awkward for me, as I can't discuss it with him and only after 20 years was only able to tell him then that part of me has 'died' toward him and it won't come back;

    This is the 'harm' alcohol can do, it wrecks lives, they think it is happiness in a bottle for a few hours until it wears off, then they hit rock bottom, as my youngest son is now going through, at 23yrs, if only Christ would come down and lay his hand upon him and claim him from the devil's clutches, but he's got to want it and he doesn't yet.

    It has wrecked so many lives, and how can something like this be good to uphold after conversion, beats me.

    Our bodies our the Temple of God, what we feed into them comes out, what we take into our mind spills back out, that's why Paul tells us to feed on the fruits of the spirit, take in goodness, out poor goodness.

    Sister I do hope this is not sounding as a debate again, God forbid, I wouldn't want to be guilty of that.

    I have a problem with an unsaved husband who drinks and cause me mental abuse, my love has dimished toward him because of this, only to be expected, I didn't set out dilbertly to do it, it just happened, the Lord Jesus saved my marraige when I got saved as then it was heading for divorce, he brought us back, reconcilled us, but then this drink habit which rears it's ugly head every few weeks chips away at what was rebuilt.

    It is good for me to be able to come here and discuss it, and get Christain advise as my Physciatrist who's not saved is obliviously to it and would only give me worldly advice, which I don't need.

    Thank you for letting me fellowship here with my problem.
    The Lord knows all about it, and I pray one day he will save him from his sin.
  18. reply to Maureen

    I am sorry you have had to go through all of that abuse Maureen.
    What you need is to be healed or released from that stronghold
    in your life that was forced upon you.

    Only God can offer you the right counsel.
    Although there are trained pastors and pastor's wives
    that can offer prayerful help and support and give you advice.

    Psalms 1:1
    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
    nor standeth in the way of sinners,
    nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

    I would also beware of the counsel of any that are
    intoxicated and therefore influenced by it because of
    the affect it has on your mind.
    Anyone that teaches or is in leadership should never let anything
    mess with their clear thinking.

    The only spirit that should be allowed to mess with your mind
    is the Holy Spirit and not an intoxicating spirit which can lead
    to deception as well.

    From here on, I would be glad to talk to you in pm, just for
    sisterly support .
    But I might not be replying in this subject anymore.

    By the way, I am not a licensed person to counsel,
    but I can relate to your situation and be a listening ear.

    God bless,
    little sister
  19. Drinking

    I had never drunk wine nor alcohol for a very long long time simply because my church forbid drinking.

    But I always wondered what the big deal is. And I think without missing the point, the Bible tells us everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial. Therefore, does drinking bring any benefits to us.

    Perhaps there are a few questions one should ask themselves before they drink:-

    1) Does it bring any benefit to you? Is it a doctors recommendation?:
    2) What makes you drink? Is it frustrations and stress and that is the way to vent - because you will be in trouble if that becomes your source of refuge.
    3) Who do I stumble / hurt around - if you cause others to stumble as you eat your meat, then you would rather not eat it.

    So, i used to drink moderately only if and when i had planned to, not more than two or one glass after a good meal. But once my girl friend told me she is not ok with it, I stopped.
  20. Little sister please feel free to pm me at anytime, I will send you one shortly in case you don't intend to visit here anymore.

    dankamiri I think you were very honourable to stop drinking for your girlfriend when she asked. My husband wont do it for me I've asked he refuses.
    Perhaps its because he isn't saved yet, he doesnt' understand but he does know the harm it's doing to us.

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