Abraham and Isaac

[dannibear]

Read Hebrews 11:1-3 and Hebrews 11:17-19

We can learn a great deal about people in the OT.
Abel worshiped God.
Enoch walked with God.
Noah worked for God.
Abraham was willing to obey God.
Sarah waited on God.

But Abraham faced something none of them yet faced.
His faith was tested. Genesis 22:1-2
-First off, human sacrifice was not beyond the range of Abraham's
experience. It took place in Ur (where he was from) in the
Canaanite culture because there was no law or scripture
to guide them.

Testing from God always has to do with faith, to strengthen it.
Testing is different from temptation. James 1:12-14.
Remember, temptation is from satan to get us to fall.
Testing is designed to make us stand. And there is a blessing
from testing. James 1:2-4
Testing produces endurance and patience. Romans 5:3-5

Many people will ask the question, 'How could God ask
Abraham to do that to his son?' when they read this story.
But what we must realize is, Abraham's test came after
substantial spiritual growth and blessing. God is all about
process. He learned things about how God works and
because of this, it made him a man that could do anything
that God asked of him.

• What does it mean God tested Abraham? He put him through a difficult trial.
• Why would God do that? To grow his faith and character, to give him greater hope and trust in God.
• Does God still do that? Yes, we often fail to see tests. Sometimes our messes are self-inflicted.

The point I am trying to make is that God will test you
with what you value highly to see if you value Him most. Hebrews 11:1
If many of us were tempted with the same situation in Biblical
times, we probably would have waited a week or two to think about
it, and might not have done it. But Abraham got up early in
the morning to do so immediately. How could he do that?
Because Abraham was convinced that God was good! Psalm 34:8

To taste God means to experience Him, to trust Him,
to engage in God. Have you given him a chance?

 

[dannibear]

My first sermon type thing.
I am quite proud of myself and what I
have learned.

 

[agua]

Nice devotional dannibear.

Well done.

 

[EdenRose]

A really good message. I never thought of it that way though. I understood god was testing abraham but i didn't think about comparing it with temptation and test(Blessing that followed).

 

[Brother Mike]

God Testing...

Wisdom Dictates that I approach this different.

Testing from God always has to do with faith, to strengthen it.
Testing is different from temptation. James 1:12-14.

What Scripture tells us that Testing from God makes our faith stronger?

What scripture tells us God was doing the testing in James here?

Why would God do that? To grow his faith and character, to give him greater hope and trust in God.

What Scripture do we have that testing increases faith? What Scripture does testing give us greater hope and trust in God?

• Does God still do that? Yes, we often fail to see tests. Sometimes our messes are self-inflicted.

How many places in the Bible do we see God actually Test??
How where those test conducted?

Testing is different from temptation. James 1:12-14.
Remember, temptation is from satan to get us to fall.
Testing is designed to make us stand. And there is a blessing

What is the major difference in the Greek Words peirasmos
and peirazō Being different. Both words were used interchangeable in different translations because they both mean almost the same thing.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[dannibear]

What Scripture tells us that Testing from God makes our faith stronger?
I provided that Scripture: James 1:2-4

What scripture tells us God was doing the testing in James here?
James 1:12-14. 'he will receive the crown of life that God promised to those who love him.'

What Scripture do we have that testing increases faith? What Scripture does testing give us greater hope and trust in God?
This is the same question as the first one. James 1:2-4 'because you know that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4 And let endurance have its perfect effect, so that you will be perfect and complete, not deficient in anything.'
Hebrews 11:19 'and he reasoned that God could even raise him from the dead, and in a sense he received him back from there.'
Abraham trusted in God so much, that if he did go through with
sacrificing his son, he knew God would raise him from the dead
to keep His promise of him having descendents. That takes trust.

How many places in the Bible do we see God actually Test??
How where those test conducted?
Times God tested people in the Bible:

• Genesis 22:1-2 1 Now it came to pass after these things that God tested Abraham . . . .

2 And He said, “Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering . . . .”

• Exodus 16:4 4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not.

• Deuteronomy 8:2-3 “And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.

• DEUTERONOMY 13:3 3 “you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

• JUDGES 3:1,4 1 Now these are the nations which the Lord left, that He might test Israel by them . . .4 And they were left, that He might test Israel by them, to know whether they would obey . . . .
  

• 2 CHRONICLES 32:31 31 . . . God withdrew from him, in order to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart.

There are more but I think you will get the idea.

What is the major difference in the Greek Words peirasmos
and peirazō Being different. Both words were used interchangeable in different translations because they both mean almost the same thing.
This verse: James 1:13

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you Dannibear!!

Thank you Sister... I am not trying to to be a pain.... If you want to step it up, then be ready to make sure your Doctrine is sound..... In the Real World where God uses us, it is very important that what we believe is solid, and there can be no doubt... A forum is a good place to check this.

We are never to add or subtract from the Word of God... Let's sharpen Iron with Iron here...


Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

What Scripture tells us that Testing from God makes our faith stronger?
I provided that Scripture: James 1:2-4

The scripture says that the trying of the faith you already have works patience...... Abraham already had faith as he as he said the Lad and I will come back........ When Isaac asked about where is the lamb, Abraham replied that God will Provide "HIMSELF" a sacrifice.. Abraham's faith was already intact which you did mention that Abraham was at a place to do this.. And knew Abraham fully expected the boy to return... Awesome.

There is nothing in James (1: 1- anything) stating that trials produce faith, or trials Make faith stronger. We have to add that for the scriptures to say that. We learn patience in Knowing God always comes through Compare with Peter (1 Pet 5:7-10)

Faith only comes by Hearing the Word of God (Rom 10:17)
Praying in the Holy Spirit builds up the faith we have.. (Jud 1:20)
Jesus said this one only comes out by prayer.. (Spending time with God, or building faith. Some translations added Fasting which is debated)

Matt 17:20-21 You could not cast this one out because of unbelief!!!

What scripture tells us God was doing the testing in James here?
James 1:12-14. 'he will receive the crown of life that God promised to those who love him.'

Scripture never said it was God doing the testing (you added that)........

All of God's Test that you mentioned were instruction to do something, or God upset and God himself doing nothing....
God's Test always had to do with the Heart...... Never sickness, adversity, complications, hard times..... and so on. God does not test or tempt with Evil.... Never..

The testing James mentioned means "Also" Adversity..peirasmos (During) peirazō (To bring......)

It's our faith that overcomes this Word.... 1 John 5:4-5
Not our faith that overcomes things God throws at us.... but Satan is the god of this world...

What is the major difference in the Greek Words peirasmos
and peirazō Being different. Both words were used interchangeable in different translations because they both mean almost the same thing.
This verse: James 1:13

Both Words mean close to the same thing.... If the Scripture said..

Count it all Joy that the Lord brings test peirasmos

but does not bring peirazō because God can not tempt any man.

We would have a case.....

Look how the words where used.........

Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; (peirasmos Fallen into, going through)

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: (peirasmos Actually enduring or going though, or went through) for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Next verse................

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, (peirazō ) I am tempted (peirazō To bring a trial or test) of God: for God cannot be tempted (peirazō To bring a trail or test) with evil, neither tempteth (peirazō To bring a trail or test) he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

God did not bring any of these............


Why pick on my bible study then.......

Because many believe their sickness, accidents, tragedy's have come from God by God allowing or God causing so that they can have more faith, or learn to trust God more... God gets the blame for everything that happens.

One Pastor that witnessed his little boy hit and killed by a car outside his house said... "I know God took my Child so I would be more focused on HIm and ministry."

One Lady sat across from me and said God caused her husband a heart attack to test his faith, and to witness to the boy that was in his hospital room with him.

Many believe God had sent the devil with permission to murder Job's Children, and make him sick...

that is why..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[dannibear]

Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

So you are saying I added to things, and am a liar?

Scripture never said it was God doing the testing (you added that)........ There is plenty of scripture about God testing people.

Examine me, O Lord, and prove me; test my heart and my mind. Psalm 26: 2
Consider it wholly joyful, my brethren, whenever you are enveloped in or encounter trials of any sort or fall into various temptations. James 1: 2
Be assured and understand that the trial and proving of your faith bring out endurance and steadfastness and patience. James 1: 3
Sometime later, God tested Abraham. Genesis 22:1

All of God's Test that you mentioned were instruction to do something, God allowed Abraham's obedience to be tested.
Had he not done what the Lord asked, he would not have passed
the test.


Never sickness, adversity, complications, hard times..... and so on. God does not test or tempt with Evil.... Never..
And in my original post, I never once said he tests with evil, or
hard times or sickness as you say.


Why pick on my bible study then.......

Because many believe their sickness, accidents, tragedy's have come from God by God allowing or God causing so that they can have more faith, or learn to trust God more... God gets the blame for everything that happens. When did I mention God tests us with hard times in my original post? When did I mention He makes us sick to test us? How about accidents? Did I say God used those too?

You must have misunderstood what I posted, or thought
this related to some other debate on this forum. I am talking
about tests and why they are different from temptation, and
the purpose of tests. Satan tempts, God tests.
Deut 8:2-20 "Remember how the Lord your God led you through the wilderness for these forty years, HUMBLING you and TESTING you to PROVE your CHARACTER, and to find out whether or not you would OBEY HIS COMMANDS. Yes, he Humbled you by letting you go hungry and then feeding you with manna, a food previously unknown to you and your ancestors. He did it to teach you that people do not live by bread alone; rather, we live by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord."

Even in that scripture it says God tests.

 

[dannibear]

And this is why I debated whether or not to put this
up for 10 minutes.

 

[Brother Mike]

You did fine..

I found nothing wrong with your bible study!!!!! You need to be able to take some heat a little better though, for what you believe... Great Job!!!

So you are saying I added to things, and am a liar?

Scripture never said it was God doing the testing (you added that)........ There is plenty of scripture about God testing people.

You said... I provided that Scripture: James 1:2-4

I asked where in James does it attribute to God doing the testing in that passage because It's not there, and You also mentioned that in your original post.

Testing from God always has to do with faith, to strengthen it.
Testing is designed to make us stand. And there is a blessing
from testing. James 1:2-4

This is why I flagged it... either Case God is not mentioned as the one putting through the trial or test in James.. anywhere.

And in my original post, I never once said he tests with evil, or
hard times or sickness as you say.

When did I mention God tests us with hard times in my original post? When did I mention He makes us sick to test us? How about accidents? Did I say God used those too?

Exactly!!! Which is the only reason I even responded to your post. Not that your study was flawed, but I saw you believed some thing right about God. You missed all the post in the Does God cause Sickness as a test. I could have used you there!!!!

http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/38195-does-god-cause-sickness-test.html

And this is why I debated whether or not to put this
up for 10 minutes.

Never say that, never back down from what you know is right... As you gain more experience with people and the Word. Your steadfastness may save someones life. Your faith in Who God is can make all the difference...

Oh... Luke 4:1-2 Jesus was a special Case, He did so we would not have to...... Jesus led by the Spirit into the desert... Last one..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[dannibear]

I asked where in James does it attribute to God doing the testing in that passage because It's not there, and You also mentioned that in your original post.

This is why I flagged it... either Case God is not mentioned as the one putting through the trial or test in James.. anywhere.

I see what happened.

Testing is designed to make us stand. And there is a blessing
from testing. James 1:2-4

The James verse was pointing out
what happens after testing, the blessing from testing. (Ex, perseverance, crown of life.) I was sitting here for 20 minutes confused, because you said there was nothing wrong with the
message, but there was something wrong with the scripture
I posted. I was thinking 'if he thinks God can test, what
is wrong with my first statement.' I said, ' and there is a
blessing.' and listed a verse from James about the things
that come from passing the test, but yes, I am missing a one,
because the verse doesn't continue to list the crown of life
that God gives as well. You are right, it does not mention
God doing it in James, but it does mention God in other places.

Exactly!!! Which is the only reason I even responded to your post. Not that your study was flawed, but I saw you believed some thing right about God. You missed all the post in the Does God cause Sickness as a test. I could have used you there!!!!

http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/38195-does-god-cause-sickness-test.html

Never say that, never back down from what you know is right... As you gain more experience with people and the Word. Your steadfastness may save someones life. Your faith in Who God is can make all the difference...
I need to keep remembering this when I think I see something
in the Bible that goes against God's nature.
I gave up and just thought, gee maybe God wasn't who I thought He was after all. But in the end it was a misunderstanding on my part.

Oh... Luke 4:1-2 Jesus was a special Case, He did so we would not have to...... Jesus led by the Spirit into the desert... Last one..

Jesus Is Lord.

Shall I list verses then for reference to the times
God tested people? I know in the beginning of the
lesson I put the mention of Abraham's testing,
but maybe more from other places of the Bible as well?

 

[dannibear]

......the edit button is gone. -.-
I don't know how to contact someone so I can
add more scriptures to it though...MEH.

 

[Brother Mike]

Lol!!!

You got all the scripture already!!!! Just Luke 4:1 ....

Forgive me, I should have stayed out of this thread. I know what you were trying to say, and found not fault in it... Really..

I see a great heart for God in you... and great things coming....

Experience will tell you many will not accept God's deliverance because of a Doctrine called. "The refiners Fire" "God removes the dross from our lives"

James 1:2
They use Scriptures like you posted in James... Divers (many different kinds) Temptations.... which also covers....

adversity, affliction, trouble: sent by God and serving to test or prove one’s character, faith, holiness

That is the actually Thayer Greek for that... troubles, afflictions, adversity....

You were trying to stay away from that..... Yet many believe that God is the one causing them problems in some sort of trial, and unable to get free..

God gave specific times of what he tested and tried, and How... James 1, Romans 5 and 1 Peter 1:7 ..... God was never mentioned as the one doing the testing...

How do we explain Job then, if God did not try him?? His Children Murdered, He was sick, and his stuff Got destroyed, yet he served God....... What happened there??

Job is just another example of obstacles I have to overcome with the Help of the Holy Spirit in trying to get people to see, that God is on their side... He really is..


dannibear: once again please Forgive me.... If anything I hope I gave you a taste of what to expect, to make sure everything is sound... and to not be offended if challenged... The devil loves to do that anyway with what we believe...

One thing about forums... It puts us with many different belief's and Doctrines that can really make us go back and reexamine what we do believe... This causes more study, and to become stronger..

God bless...

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[dannibear]

It was fine, I was just confused about the 2nd time you
posted. xD It's all good. I know God tests us to see if
we love Him more than what we value most on Earth.
Questions I ask myself all the time: Do I love you more than
my computer? Do I love you more than my dog? Do I
love you more than my boyfriend? So on and so on.
God tested Abraham to see if he loved his son more than
God. And because he passed that test, his family was
blessed with descendents. Now as to the question:
does God test my faith with sickness, the loss of someone
dear to me, injury, so on? I don't think so. Can I turn my
pain into glory for God? Yes. But I don't think God
would make me trip and fall on the sidewalk, and see if
I would still love Him after having a permanent speech
problem. I honestly don't know why things like that happen
in the world to be honest. I always believed that sin made
things broken in the world.