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A place to dwell

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Loyal
It seems that far and away most Christians believe in a place called "heaven". Or at least a place called
the new Jerusalem. But some think these places are only an idea or an abstract.

I find the Bible rarely uses abstracts. It does use parables, but parables are made of real substances,
not abstracts.

John 14:2; says... In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so...
I would have told you.

That's pretty plain. We have dwelling places after this life. We don't just wander around on earth
or out in the cosmos some where. Jesus even says.. if this wasn't true... I would have told you.

I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. ( John 14:3; )

Yes, there is a kingdom of God here on the earth of sorts, it's here even while we are alive,
We can be in it, even while we are alive, but this isn't our eternal resting place. In fact the Bible
says there will be a new heavens... and.. a new earth.

The new Jerusalem has physical dimensions, it has walls.. that keep certain people out. ( Rev 21:27; )
( Rev 22:14-15; )

Even our spiritual bodies have to dwell somewhere.
 
Loyal
Yes, and the place God is preparing is also in us, is it not?

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Jesus had no place to lay His head, no place of rest:

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

David was given a revelation of this and it is our also if we have eyes to see it:

Psa 132:3 Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed;
Psa 132:4 I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,
Psa 132:5 Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.

And before he finishes the Psalm he clarifies:

Psa 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
Psa 132:14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

So then with the sacrifice of Jesus and the work of the Holy Ghost in us, we can also become a suitable place for Jesus to rest his head.
In one definition of Zion it is described as a dry, barren place. One thing needed to change that in the natural is water. We, being to dead to God, have been a dry and barren place, but with the Life provided by Jesus and quickened within us by the Holy Ghost, there now can be a new or inner man that is not dry and barren. Is this the place of which David is speaking?
 
Loyal
So then with the sacrifice of Jesus and the work of the Holy Ghost in us, we can also become a suitable place for Jesus to rest his head.
I think there is a difference between us finding rest in Him, and He finding rest in us. (I'm not sure any of the scriptures above would support that).
But what about after we die? Where do we go? Do we go to heaven, just so Jesus can.. "find rest in us"?
 
Loyal
I think there is a difference between us finding rest in Him, and He finding rest in us. (I'm not sure any of the scriptures above would support that).
But what about after we die? Where do we go? Do we go to heaven, just so Jesus can.. "find rest in us"?
Read through the entire 17th chapter of John. Was Jesus praying for nothing? Do His prayers go unheard or unanswered? After all who is the Word of God? Does the Word God every return to Him without having accomplished His purpose?

Remember that mankind died when Adam and Eve disobeyed God. They have remained dead, even while walking around, throughout the centuries, until Jesus opened a Way where there had been no way to enter in and partake of the Tree of Life. Jesus is also the Tree of Life. We are to eat of His flesh and to drink of His blood in order to live. When does that Life begin? Must we wait until the dirt has been thrown onto our natural faces at the end of our course here? I think not.

Where is heaven? It is "up", but which way is up? Is not up toward God while down is away from Him. Jesus spoke of heavens here:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

The heavens [plural], I believe, are depicted in the three levels in the tabernacle in the wilderness. When a man enters the tabernacle enclosure with his offering he is approaching, or is in, the first level or the first heaven of God. This is the Way to approach God. Behind the first veil was second heaven and even closer to God. God, Himself, dwells always behind the second veil where there is no sin. It was called the Holy of Holies. In the Old Testament it was only a shadow or a type of the real thing. The Real Thing is Jesus Himself. He said,

"...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

The same three heavens are also depicted in the three levels of the Ark built by Noah, with the unclean beasts on the bottom, the clean beasts in the middle and men at the top.

So where is heaven?

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21

What is it that is within us? Where is it that God is building a house? What is it that delays or even stops the work on the building? Who is able to limit God?

Jesus, the Head, will find rest in his own Body that is not the single body of flesh that died on Calvary.

God rested when the work of creation was complete. But when is the work of creation within us by the Holy Spirit complete if not when the Head is secured attached to the Body of Christ which is completely and always subject to the Head? The work still seems to be in process.
 
Loyal
Where is heaven? It is "up", but which way is up? Is not up toward God while down is away from Him. Jesus spoke of heavens here:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

I am not convinced that this verse is talking about heavens here on earth.

In any case the argument isn't that the Holy Spirit dwells within Christians currently.
The question was, where do WE (humans) go when we die? (physical body death).
Where does your soul/spirit go when you die?

1 Cor 15:12; Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Cor 15:13; But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1 Cor 15:14; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
1 Cor 15:15; Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
1 Cor 15:16; For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
1 Cor 15:17; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
 
Loyal
John 3:13; No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

In the context of the timing of this verse, Jesus was on Earth. I agree He came from heaven. But wasn't in heaven
when He "descended from heaven".

I would also agree He is in heaven right now.

But none of that answers the question... where do we dwell when we die?
 
Loyal
Where is heaven? It is "up", but which way is up? Is not up toward God while down is away from Him. Jesus spoke of heavens here:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

I am not convinced that this verse is talking about heavens here on earth.
No argument from me. God alone gives any increase. If I am right, God knows. If I am wrong He knows that as well and if I endure with Him to the end will He not correct anything that needs correction?

In any case the argument isn't that the Holy Spirit dwells within Christians currently.
The question was, where do WE (humans) go when we die? (physical body death).
Where does your soul/spirit go when you die?
What death ultimately is important to God and to us if not the death to sin? As to the flesh, what would or should we expect? I am simply working to live for Him everyday without having every single answer to every single question that anyone has. God has all of the answers and when we really need them [as He determines need] will He not provide them?

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecc 12:7

1 Cor 15:12; Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Cor 15:13; But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1 Cor 15:14; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
1 Cor 15:15; Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
1 Cor 15:16; For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
1 Cor 15:17; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
For me the Resurrection is simply, Jesus and He said:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Give God the glory my friend!

I will care for this corruptible body for so long as it remains a part of my stewardship, but even in that God will always provide the means when He determines it is necessary.

Where will I go when I die physically? Hopefully that will all be settled before the time comes. The new inner man is the one that matters to me. Is not the new man of which the Apostle Paul, the resurrected or born again man?
 

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