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A Discussion on Homosexuality and other varients.

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Member
This is a highly debated topic within Christians, but if you know anything about scripture you would know sexuality is god's invention and his idea of sexuality is this. "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. " Ephesians 5:31 So basically a man leaves his mother and father, marry his wife and have a child. Its also pointed out that your not allowed to go against this. In
Leviticus 18:6-18
This entire chapter is focus on listing every abomination of sexuality, mostly including family relations. "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22

So clearly the bible goes against it, however a lot of "LGBT FRIENDLY" churches and ministries have been popping up and it seems like this is not a push to tolerate but a push of acceptance. The bible says you come to god as you are to get saved so gay people should be allowed in church, but accepting them for who they are is WRONG. The whole point of jesus on the cross is so we can SAVE people from sin, not live in it. A man can steal but he knows its wrong and regrets it. A thief steals and does not care or regret it.

I would like to here y'all thoughts since a lot of people cherry pick love verses in the bible to justify perverting sexuality.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
No cherry picking from me. Two thumbs up! :shades: with what you've written.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Active
The bible says you come to god as you are to get saved so gay people should be allowed in church, but accepting them for who they are is WRONG.
Hello @Merkify greetings to you!

You are right when you say, it is wrong accepting the gay in the church AND tolerating their homosexual life because It is already COMPROMISED.

But let us also consider the other side of it, that a man who went to the hospital for healing will not get well instantly. They could be discharge in the hospital for a while and then go back for another treatment, because the process of healing is not overnight. It takes time.

The same thing with gays, or anybody who is suffering from their identity, or a man suffering from spirit of pornography, adultery or any sins that only GOD sees (even of a man is a worshiper in the church) The process of healing is not instant ( please do remember that i am not saying to tolerate their homosexual life while in the church )
I am just saying that there could be reasons why other churches accept gays in their church ( but it doesnt mean they tolerate them for being homosexual- UNLESS you know that the leaders of the church didn’t take actions and just tolerate them )
It is just because even if they wanted too to convert that gay man’s hearts to be straight man and to follow Jesus whole heartedly in just a snap of time ( or overnight ) , it is not anymore in their control. Only God can do that.

Just a testimony, i know someone my churchmate before, he was suffering from his identity as a gay, and we didn’t know it until one day, he testified it to me and to everyone in the church that he was a gay before but because of the grace of God to Him, that gay who was suffering from homosexual life before was now a pastor in our church.

Praise God, we as believers should not be the reason for someone not to come to Christ but help them, and guide them.
 
Loyal
But let us also consider the other side of it, that a man who went to the hospital for healing will not get well instantly. They could be discharge in the hospital for a while and then go back for another treatment, because the process of healing is not overnight. It takes time.
I agree, however.. using your analogy as a gay person = a sick man, and a church = a hospital.
There are some hospitals giving poison to sick people.
 
Active
Because church is like a hospital, everyone is sick with different stages of illnesses, some are on the process of healing, some are already healed and they’ve been there to offer help and be a volunteer for those who still needs healing. Like the hospital, we should not rely our healing from the advices (ALONE) of our co patients, we should rely it to our great doctor, Jesus.
 
Member
This is a highly debated topic within Christians, but if you know anything about scripture you would know sexuality is god's invention and his idea of sexuality is this. "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. " Ephesians 5:31 So basically a man leaves his mother and father, marry his wife and have a child. Its also pointed out that your not allowed to go against this. In
Leviticus 18:6-18
This entire chapter is focus on listing every abomination of sexuality, mostly including family relations. "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22

So clearly the bible goes against it, however a lot of "LGBT FRIENDLY" churches and ministries have been popping up and it seems like this is not a push to tolerate but a push of acceptance. The bible says you come to god as you are to get saved so gay people should be allowed in church, but accepting them for who they are is WRONG. The whole point of jesus on the cross is so we can SAVE people from sin, not live in it. A man can steal but he knows its wrong and regrets it. A thief steals and does not care or regret it.

I would like to here y'all thoughts since a lot of people cherry pick love verses in the bible to justify perverting sexuality.
Hello Merkify;
Both men and women leave their parents to start a family. There is no question that the norm is male and female. I have attended a church down the street that has a Gay Pride flag of seven colours on its website. The church is following the social practice of accepting inclusion of diversity within the ranks.

There are many churches which can be considered sin friendly. I agree that all have sinned and come short of God's glory. But, what to do with those who continue to portray a questionable behaviour? It's not just LGBT as there are many activities which can be considered ungodly. Do we ban those who continue to practice those activities? The Jehovah's Witness movement has a practice called shunning and/or disfellowshipping. Should we adopt that practice against those who persist in abiding in sin? Cheers.
 
Loyal
There is a big difference between allowing sinners to go to your church, and condoning their sinful lifestyle in the church.

1 Cor 5:9; I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
1 Cor 5:10; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
1 Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
1 Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1 Cor 5:13; But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

2 Cor 6:14; Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2 Cor 6:15; Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
2 Cor 6:16; Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
2 Cor 6:17; "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.

Any church telling these people that God is OK with what they are doing is either deceived, or outright lying to them.
Either case has the same results. They will be held accountable for those people.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Gal 6:7; Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Matt 18:16; "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
Matt 18:17; "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.


Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28; And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only those who do the same, but also those who give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Even approving of others doing it makes you just as guilty.
 
Loyal
There are many churches which can be considered sin friendly.
These aren't real churches.

Rev 2:9; 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Christians and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9; 'Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Christians and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.

Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'


2 Pet 2:2; Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2 Pet 2:3; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
2 Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
2 Pet 2:5; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2 Pet 2:6; and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

1 Tim 1:8; But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1 Tim 1:9; realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
1 Tim 1:10; and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

2 Tim 4:3; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
 
Loyal
The Jehovah's Witness movement has a practice called shunning and/or disfellowshipping. Should we adopt that practice against those who persist in abiding in sin? Cheers.
This could be the best thing that could happen to a JW. :smile:
 
Active
Thank you B-A-C for raising this topic in the way you have, it is important that these people get the message, some will some won't, we can only pray for the them. God has already given them over to the terrible sins they commit, they are already veiled from the Truth because of their sins.

The BGLT+ share with one another, as birds of a feather flock together, the first things they will quote whenever the subject is raised that what they do is a sin are,
- 'Don't quote Leviticus to me, we are saved by grace we are free from the law',
- 'Jesus never mentioned anything about homosexuality himself'.
- 'God is love, we are to love one another'

Yes we are saved by Grace, through faith, but Jesus also said...

Matthew 5:17-18 (NKJV)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

If we are free from the law, in the way they state...
  1. You shall have no other gods before Me. If free from the law people can worship any God, which in effect is worshipping the devil. A PRICE WILL BE PAID
  2. You shall make no idols. If free from the law the use of sex toys or having any other idol is acceptable to them. A PRICE WILL BE PAID
  3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. If free from the law saying LGBT+ acts are acceptable is doing just this. A PRICE WILL BE PAID
  4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. If free from the law there is no need to do this. A PRICE WILL BE PAID
  5. Honor your father and your mother. If free from the law there would be no need to do this. A PRICE WILL BE PAID
  6. You shall not murder. If free from the law does it mean we can murder people? NO, A PRICE WIL BE PAID
  7. You shall not commit adultery. If free from the law we can do this and other sexual act which is against God's will. SIN, A PRICE WILL BE PAID
  8. You shall not steal. If free from the law we can steal! NO, A PRICE WILL BE PAID BY THE SINNER
  9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. If free from the law we can do this! NO, ALL SIN IS AGAINST GOD'S WILL
  10. You shall not covet. If free from the law we can covet! NO, GOING AGAINST GOD'S COMMANDMENTS IS SIN.
So if we are free from the Law, are we saying we are free from ALL God's Law's. The opposite of all the 10 Commandments here has satan written right through it.

But in effect this is what many in LGBT+ are saying.

Matthew 5:17-18 (NKJV)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Galatians 5:14 (NKJV)

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

If we love we will know the One True Living God, his Love was given to us through Jesus, through His Love for us, through his dying on the cross for us, for his shedding of his blood for our sins.

If we love our neighbour we will not kill, we will not steal, we will not covet, we will not commit adultery or bear false witness. One Word LOVE.

But in our western world LOVE means so many things, love of money, love of possessions, love of holidays, love the sun. love for pets, love for children, all and more using just one word LOVE.

What does the Greek word actually refer to?

Greek Word: ἀγαπάω
Transliteration: agapaō
Phonetic Pronunciation:ag-ap-ah'-o
Vine's Words: Beloved, Love
English Words used in KJV:
love 135
beloved 7
[Total Count: 142]
to love (in a social or moral sense) :- which sums up all of the commandments for man - a social moral love not a sexual love for another person
(be-) love (-ed). Compare <G5368> (phileo).
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

The LGBT+ cannot see this, they are veiled from the Truth, God gave them over to debased minds due to their SINS.

2 Peter 2:2
Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;

LGBT+ and others, including, pastors, vicars, priests, bishops etc will all be deceived. Teachers in accordance with their own desires.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires

God created man and then woman, so man had a companion, can have a wife and together they can have children. Sex is for a married man with the woman he married.

Marriage is so important it is included through out the Bible, Jesus' first miracle being at a wedding ceremony, the marriage of a man and woman in LOVE. Jesus portrays the Church, the ekklesia, baptised, born again believers, the one True Church as His BRIDE. He tells us He is Head of this Church, His Church, and portrays Himself as the BRIDEGROOM. We the Bride are to be pure and sin free, in total readiness for when the Bridegroom returns in Glory for His Bride.

Marriage of a man and woman, a bridegroom and a bride, are central to God's Love for mankind. God's divine Love, God's divine plan for mankind, God's divine love being 'agape' Love. The Greek has if I remember rightly 7 or 9 words for Love, the western word has just one! No wonder there is so much confusion.

The LGBT+ are blind to the sins they commit, they are blind to the Truth in the Word. Any sexual act outside marriage of a man and women is SIN.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 5:27-30
Jesus said...

27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

If it is SIN for a man to LOOK at a woman with lustful thoughts, or a woman to look at a man with lustful thoughts, it is also SIN to have lustful thoughts for anyone or anything.

Romans 1:26-27
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

1 Corinthians 11:12
12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.

Do not be deceived scripture clearly says!
 
Loyal
I can't find the words where Jesus says "homosexuality is a sin". But He was very familiar with Sodom and Gomorrah.

Matt 10:15; "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
Matt 11:23; "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.
Matt 11:24; "Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you."
Luke 10:12; "I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city.
Luke 17:29; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.


Jesus says... "You think it was bad for them?" "You think it will different for you if you are doing the same things?" (my paraphrase)

Matt 19:4; And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
Matt 19:5; and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
Matt 19:6; "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."


Also if we're going to go by what "Jesus said" here.... He said God created two sexes... male and female (not 43 sexes).
According to Jesus only a male and a female can become one flesh.


Mark 10:6; "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE.
Mark 10:7; "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,
Mark 10:8; AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Mark 10:9; "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."


Jesus is quoting Genesis here.

Gen 1:27; God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Gen 1:28; God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Gen 2:24; For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Of course two men, or two women cannot "be fruitful and multiply" without outside help.
 
Active
Greetinhs brother

As stated in my previous post...

The BGLT+ share with one another, as birds of a feather flock together, the first things they will quote whenever the subject is raised that what they do is a sin are,
- 'Don't quote Leviticus to me, we are saved by grace we are free from the law',
- 'Jesus never mentioned anything about homosexuality himself'.
- 'God is love, we are to love one another'

LGBT+ say, and this bit is correct, that Jesus didn't actually say, homosexuality is a sin. As we know Jesus spoke about things he came across, his initial mission was to the Jews to correct their wrong understandings of the law.

That said enough is said to confirm it is a sin. Also stating that a time would come, it sure has, which will be 'as the days of Noah were" referring to the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah cannot.

Only twice in history has the world been so sinful, so unGodly, the days just before God flooded the whole world and the end times we live in.
 
Loyal
'Jesus never mentioned anything about homosexuality himself'.
The Gospel which Paul preached, and taught came directly from Jesus Christ himself.

Gal 1:11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.
Gal 1:12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.


What did Jesus tell Paul?

Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
 
Active
Thank you brother @Curtis

My statement was based on what the LGBT+ people say...

'Jesus never mentioned anything about homosexuality himself.' I meant to include 'in the Gospels'

It is correct, and equally important to include what Paul said in Galatians and Romans.
 
Loyal
Thank you brother @Curtis

My statement was based on what the LGBT+ people say...

'Jesus never mentioned anything about homosexuality himself.' I meant to include 'in the Gospels'

It is correct, and equally important to include what Paul said in Galatians and Romans.
Even though not all scriptures are in "red" it makes no difference because all scripture is given by inspiration of God which means it came directly from God himself.

The "LGBT" people know what they do is wrong because their conscience tells them it's wrong. This is why God says to them......

Rom 1:32 They know God has said that anyone who acts this way deserves to die. But they keep on doing evil things, and they even encourage others to do them. (CEV)

It is not matter of not knowing, it is a matter of knowing but doing it anyway!
 
Active
It is important to remember, I think, that the LGBT+ includes more lost souls than saved ones, they live worldly ways, like Sodom and Gomorrah.

The Pride had a weekend parade at Brighton on the south coast in the UK, lots of other areas also but I take this from a recent news item, the authorities were astounded by their sheer selfishness, the beach was left literally covered with beer cans, balloons, laughing gas canisters and more. Over 150 bags of rubbish was collected from the beach alone, balloons that would get into the sea had the tide come in and ended up in fish etc. They confirmed they had never seen so many laughing gas canisters in one place, these would have also ended up in the sea along with the beer cans and other items they just threw on the ground and left. How sad if they have to have laughing gas to make them laugh, or make them appear happy people.

But amongst these people are also saved souls that have falling for the lies, lusted for others of their own sex and refuse to accept scripture, sinning and continuing to sin.

So I feel that although scripture is God breathed for all mankind, there are many who know not God, know not the Lord Jesus and don't want to know Him. The devil is their father but they don't accept the devil either. So a believer may know the verse you mention and choose to ignore it, but there are others who don't. Many believe this life is it, so they say enjoy it now, their idea of enjoyment is have parties, get drunk, have sex with anyone, this is what we do, this is what our generation does.

Rom 1:32
They know God has said that anyone who acts this way deserves to die. But they keep on doing evil things, and they even encourage others to do them. (CEV)

Not all know God brother, not all know what God has said, but they are like any none believer quick to pick up on certain scriptural items that others use to fit their purpose.

Peace be with you.
 
Active
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Both Old Testament and New Testaments tell us that men are not to lay / be with men or women lay together as man and woman Are to lay together -- something that is an abomination to God.

And single men and women aren't to be 'laying with' Anyone until they are married. And then it is to be one man and one woman.

The reason For church discipline is to bring offenders back To fellowship with the congregation. When people are obviously doing things that are Not Biblical -- 1st one person should approach them - by themselves - in a loving, caring manner.
Sharing concern for them. Then - depending on the reaction Of the person being approached -- Hopefully the person will respond in a positive way. Maybe disciplining is needed. But -- if that does Not make a positive difference, -- then Two people approach the person -- again with Godly , loving concern. If That doesn't make any difference - the Board of deacons can be approached and disciplinary action would be taken.

But Usually -- the 1st time someone is approached like this -- they either agree to one-on-one discipling or they leave the church. Disciple-ing people is important. New Christians need Biblical guidance just like everyone Else does.

Unfortunately -- the reaction tends to be "and who are You to judge Me". So - it Probably depends on how the person Is approached. In a loving, caring way? or a judgemental way.
 
Loyal
New Christians need Biblical guidance just like everyone Else does.

Unfortunately -- the reaction tends to be "and who are You to judge Me". So - it Probably depends on how the person Is approached. In a loving, caring way? or a judgemental way.
New Christians who are willing and trying to repent need love, patience and discipleship.

New "Christians" that have no intention of repenting or changing their lifestyle - need to be judged by the church. It is the churches duty to do so.
Instead too many churches are just accepting it, and teaching that it is OK.
 
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Top Poster Of Month
Wouldn't there be a serious question as to If a person who isn't willing to change their lifestyle is actually a Christian? / born-again believer?

A person Can have temptations in various areas and give in to those occasionally -- that does Not equate to it being a 'lifestyle'. Homosexuality is something that requires two people -- and That is why a person With those tendencies needs to be very boundaried in their relationships. Taking all of that to God / guarding your heart and mind. Hard to do at times -- but it CAN be done and Is done by Many people. And that person Will feel better / more at ;peace/ when they Do refrain.

Lots of churches allow all kinds of sin to be practiced by people. They don't want to run any one off by imposing Godly standards on them. Unfortunately - it becomes the 'norm' rather than the exception.
 

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