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3rd Heaven

Discussion in 'Bible Answers' started by Chad, Mar 29, 2009.

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  1. #1 Chad, Mar 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2017
    What does it mean when the Bible refers to the "third heaven?"

    At the time of ancient Israel they did not have as complete an understanding of the universe as we do today. So they wrote in terms they were familiar with. The Jews spoke of three heavens. The first heaven consisted of the the earth atmosphere where the clouds and birds were. The second heaven was where the sun, stars, and moon was. The third heaven was the dwelling place of God. When Paul said he was caught up to the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2), he was referring to the very dwelling place of God.

    As a note, the Mormons erringly teach that the three heavens consist of telestial, terrestrial, and celestial. They divide them into compartments dwelt by people after they die.

    The First Heaven: Earth Atmosphere
    • Deut. 11:17 -- Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce....
    • Deut. 28:12 -- The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands.
    • Judges 5:4 -- "O LORD, when you went out from Seir, when you marched from the land of Edom, the earth shook, the heavens poured, the clouds poured down water.
    • Acts 14:17 -- "Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons;...
    The Second Heaven: Outer Space
    • Psalm 19:4,6 -- In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun... It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other;...
    • Jeremiah 8:2 -- They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens which they have loved and served....
    • Isaiah 13:10 -- The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light.
    The Third Heaven: God's Dwelling Place
    • 1 Kings 8:30 (phrase repeated numerous times in following verses) -- then hear from heaven, your dwelling place...
    • Psalm 2:4 -- The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them.
    • Matthew 5:16 -- In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
    The highest heaven, the third heaven is indicated by the reference to the Throne of God being the highest heaven:
    • 1 Kings 8:27 -- "But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you.
    • Deut. 10:14 -- To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.
    Article: CARM - Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry
     
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  2. #2 yort, Jan 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2017
    What about Genesis

    Hey chad;

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth
    Gen 1:1 (KJV)


    And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
    Gen 1:6-8 (KJV)


    And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear
    Gen 1:9 (KJV)


    And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night
    Gen 1:14 (KJV)


    And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
    Gen 1:15 (KJV)


    And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
    Gen 1:17 (KJV)


    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven
    Gen 1:20 (KJV)


    I didn`t see these references in your post

    Troy
     
  3. That's good stuff, Chad.
     
  4. Check it out

    Here also I found another reference;

    Psalm 8:3, the psalmist says, "When I consider Thy heavens, the work of Thy fingers, the moon and the stars which Thou hast ordained, what is man that Thou dost take thought of him?" God is the creator. God is the maker. Psalm 136 verses 5 to 9 praises God with these words, "To Him who made the heavens with skill, to Him who spread out the earth above the waters...meaning separating the land from the sea...to Him who made the great light," the very same terms used in Psalm 136. "The sun to rule by day, and the moon and stars to rule by night." There the Psalm 136 verses 5 to 9 affirming God's creation of the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, the lesser light to govern the night, along with the stars also

    Troy
     
  5. 3rd heaven......

    In the bible the 3rd heaven is the one to which Paul is caught up. The third heaven. I have not found higher in the book.


    The world sings of the 7th heaven......but may be writer licence...in the song....Unfounded in scripture.
     
  6. This is the 3rd Heaven

    Here are 2 Scriptures that relate to the third heaven..

    1. Philippians 3:17
    [ Our Citizenship in Heaven ] Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.
    Philippians 3:16-18 (in Context) Philippians 3 (Whole Chapter)NKJV
    2. Philippians 3:20
    For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
    Philippians 3:19-21 (in Context) Philippians 3 (Whole Chapter) NKJV

    And here is one Scripture that relates to a future heaven..

    Revelation 21 1-4
    All Things Made New
    1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
     
  7. Further to my 'off the cuff' remarks earlier.

    Paul was not doubtful about being caught up to the 'third heaven'. He was certain about that. It was whether in the body or out of it, that was doubtful to him. 2Cor.2-3.

    There are three heavens as I see it?

    1The clouds or atmospheric heavens. Gen.1;8. Ps.77.17-18.etc.

    2The starry space. Gen.15:5. Gen.22:17. etc.

    3The planet heaven. Gen.1:1. Isa.14:12-14. Isa.66:1. Rev.21:2.
     
  8. All I know - is that God is the greatest, His steadfast love endures forever.
     

  9. In Islam there are 7 heavens.

    ""It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."
    (The Qur'an, 2:29)

    "Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."
    (The Qur'an, 41:12)"

    I'm not sure if Islam is the source of the "7 heavens" thing, but its worth noting.
    I've heard Hinduism has the idea of 7 higher worlds and 7 lower worlds, but it sounds confusing lol


    I believe the Bible, and I believe there are 3 Heavens, and God Almighty is in the Highest, third Heaven. :)
     
  10. #10 jari, Aug 2, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
    Good article.
    The reason Paul said 3rd heaven was probably because people knew about the 2 others that are visible to us.
    So to say there is third heaven is to say there is place unknown to them.

    Which we know is the Heaven where we go after we die.

    By the way. I think Highest heaven means also the 3rd heaven. I think its yet another phrase to say that God is above the earthly heaven and outer space heaven.
     
  11. praise the LORD, i have good place today to read and learn quickly from many seniours in the forums, thank you soo much to everyone in this forum for good topics, i feel like join in the bible school today.
    praise the LORD.
     
  12. Very well presented.
     
  13. #13 amadeus2, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2017
    The ark of Noah had three levels and the creatures on all three levels were saved from the flood waters. The unclean beasts were on the bottom. The clean beasts were on the 2nd level and Noah along with 7 members of his family were on the top. Some of all three types were “saved” from the destruction of the flood.

    The Israelites were not allowed to eat of "unclean beasts" at all because the cost of eating them was greater than the cost of going hungry. In other words the net value of eating them was NOTHING or less than nothing. [Their words and actions produce no good fruit, but evil fruit only.] All the fruits of an unclean beast are filthy rags and good for nothing in the eyes of God.

    But it is when we were as beasts that were not clean that most of us first were drawn to God. We were “saved”, but until He worked on us we remained unclean.

    First heaven, if you will, would be the lowest level at which God deals with man. It would correspond to the lowest level of the Ark built by Noah.

    The natural children of Israel in the wilderness wandered back and forth between their own ways of confusion and God’s Way of order. They were continuously in need of repentance and God’s mercy even though He had saved all of them from slavery in Egypt. Most of them in the end did not make it into the promised land. Only two adults [above the age of 20…see Numbers 32:11-12] who came out of Egypt also made into the promised land: Joshua and Caleb. Instead of going back to the tabernacle with the proper sacrifice: they went to golden calves; or the gods of the heathen people in the lands; or they looked back with longing to Egypt.

    Similarly, today we are too often like yo-yo’s bouncing back and forth between God’s Way and our own ways.

    We have heard it said that “we are what we eat” in reference to the consumption of natural foods. When we first are drawn from the depths of sin we are like those unclean beasts because of what have been eating spiritually. We need to have our filth cleaned out [Matt 12:43-44] and we need to eat of His 12 fruits [Rev 22:2] and have His 7 spirits [Rev 3:1, Rev 5:6, Isa 11:2]. The unclean beast of man [Ecc 3:18-21] continues to eat spiritual garbage until (and if) it learns the difference between good and evil food and drink and nourishes itself properly [John 6:35]. If it eats garbage after being cleansed it will again become filthy once again [Matt 12:45] only worse.

    Second heaven is where God continues to deal with man's beastly nature through the gift of His Spirit and would correspond to the second or middle level of the Ark which Noah built. Men who enter here have been cleaned up and thus are 'clean beasts', but still beasts.because their “old man” is still seeking the dominion.

    When the filth, which is a part of us is being removed and as we are beginning to serve Him (eating & drinking properly) then His fruits will begin to grow in us. Then will we be able to provide the proper nourishment of the things of God for others as well. Yet, the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh and the pride of life [I John 2:16] still assail us. As we continue to partake of the evil food and drink in any measure so also in that measure the fruit which we bear is still our own [Gal 5:19-21]and is thus poisonous to God's people.

    When we are “clean beasts" our evil fruits have been removed, but our beastly nature which is drawn to sin remains. “Clean beasts” have a mixture of edible and inedible parts. The Israelites were not allowed to eat all of every single part of even clean beasts [Lev 3:4 & 17]. This is why when we read a writing (such this one) or hear a preacher preach we need to sift through it carefully so as not eat unnecessarily any poisonous thing. But if we do at times, we must remember also these words: “…and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them…” Mark 16:18

    "Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:” Prov 9:1 [Would these pillars not be the 7 Spirits of God?]

    “She hath KILLED her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:2 [She killed the source of evil within us which are the remains of our “old man”, the “unclean beast” . She mixed the Word of God with the Spirit of God to bring it to Life in us. She put before us a table of nourishing food and drink (the Word and the Spirit).]

    Third heaven corresponds to the highest level of the Ark which Noah built. The beastly natures of men must be dead in order to enter here. No sin and no ways of man are allowed within.

    When all of the fruits of our beast are gone and our beast nature itself is gone then and only then will we be ready to enter the 3rd heaven where the Father dwells (as He dwelt in the most holy place between the cherubims [II Sam 6:2]in the tabernacle in the wilderness. Before that our filthy inner parts and our filthy outer parts would cause us to be consumed by the consuming fire which God is...if we were to approach His throne...

    The three levels or heavens are pictured then in the three levels of Ark of Noah but also in the three levels of the tabernacle in the wilderness.

    The veil to the most holy place or the holiest of holies was rent when Jesus died [Matt 27:50-51], but we still cannot enter in there without being properly cleansed [Acts 2:38] and attired [Matt 22:11-13, Eph 6:14-17].

    Everyone that comes to Christ can enter the 1st level [outer court] of the tabernacle (in order to repent and receive and be received of Him), but only priests with the proper garments [Exodus 28] can enter the 2nd level [holy place]. Prior to sacrifice of Jesus no one could enter the real 3rd level [most holy place or holiest of holies] and live.

    The natural high priest once a year entered the most holy place (3rd level) a shadow 3rd heaven in the tabernacle in the wilderness. Even Moses was not to actually able enter in where he would have been able to look on the face of God [Ex 33:20]
    .


    Jesusis the Way in... but obviously, to me anyway, not everyone who comes to Him is immediately ready for third heaven.
     
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  14. I know only a little ? But what i know is ? New Jerusalem was not in our universe in 1972 ! It was where there were no sars or lights ! except the glory of JESUS CHRIST lighting the city !

    I think and it only my thinking ! that God has Created many universes ?

    I also know there was another heaven, before He created new Jerusalem for us ! which was defiled by the fallen angels entering it ! where i believe enoch and elijah is now , waiting for there time to return here to die for our Lord Jesus !

    I think there will be Wonderful things we will get to see in our eternal lives with Him ! as He was always a creator and has made things we can not even imagine !

    1Co_2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

    God given us everything ! we just do not fully understand 1 I know there much more i do not fully understand or accept fully ?
    We all tend to lean toward our understanding , even when we try hard not too ?

    I was listening to a preacher on T.V. ! a guy believed the scripture He could raise the dead ! He went to mexico and started praying for the Dead ! He prayed for about 200 different dead beings and Nothing happened ! Then He prayed for another , the 201 and that person came back !
    since then ? the preacher said ? He has bought back 400 different people !
    It a preacher i enjoy listening too , He preaches lots of spiritual type things ! And He was once a muslim from Iran and preaches there lots by T.V. and i think He been there lots?
    but He does believe something i Do Not believe 1 He believes Jesus died Spiritually ! I know He could not have ! I know He gave His life blood and body for us and with His Spirit went to hell and freed many captives , But preaching His gospel to them !

    I know the miracles are for us all equally , unless we get a speacial anointing to do certain works ! We Do not All get the same anointing !
    But we need to be happy , how ever God wants to use us and be faithful in that work !
     
  15. I strongly believe the third heaven Paul was referring to meant the third Heavenly age. That would mean Apostle Paul was given a vision while in The Spirit.

    In 2 Peter 3 Apostle Peter defines 3 world ages, "the world that then was", "the heavens and the earth, which are now", and then "new heavens and a new earth".

    I don't believe in the multiple levels of Heaven idea, which really is an ancient idea from old pagan religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. I believe there are definite places of separation in the Heavenly though, like how God's Word compares haides as a prison which has different places of confinement.
     
  16. #16 Jehonadab, Feb 12, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
    There is what we might refer to as, 'Spiritual Heavens'.

    The earth is said to have a spiritual place which rules it's air and influences the inhabitants of this world:

    Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.." (KJV)

    That air is a spiritual heavens which shapes people and the earth's nations' draw power form it. Leviticus shows God using the nations to chastise Israel by letting the nations of the earth become tough upon them like iron beating brass into shape:

    Leviticus 26:19 "And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass...." (KJV) (Ponder onward in the context)

    Here we see another similar but inverse comparison:

    Deuteronomy 28:23 "And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron."

    The prosperity which Israel would have drawn from the earth's potential with God's blessing was lost through their disobedience to God. Thus the earth under them yielded no nourishment to their heaven like dominion, their government, instead abandoning them with the loss of God's blessing. And even the people (also a resource of this earth) were no longer supporting Israel's heavens as their government appointed of God.

    It is interesting to note that God used the nations like furnaces to purify to himself a remnant of Israel: Deuteronomy 4:20 "But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day."

    God continued to return them to that furnace of nations from time to time as needed to get some of them to Christ. We find much on that in Malachi and elsewhere.

    And since no nation can rule lest God allows them to rule (Daniel 4:17,25,32,34) all of the governments of this earth are said to rule in a heaven which is appointed over this earth.

    The number seven is the number of times required to make something pure:

    Psalms 12:6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."

    This is the significance of the earth being created 6 days and continued a seventh day.

    I suspect that either Mohammad did not understand the purpose of seven heavens or that his followers did not understand him.

    It requires seven times of this earth's one spiritual heaven to be submitted back into the furnace before it is purified adequately to God's standards.
     
  17. There is only one heaven involving Spirit, and that is where our Heavenly Father and His Son are, and also the angels, and also the devil and his angels. There are only 2 separate dimensions of existence taught in God's Word, this earthly realm which includes both the sky around the earth, and the sun, moon, and stars in outer space (yes, the sun, moon, and stars are 'material' objects of this earthly dimension).

    Heb.11
    1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

    3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    That defines the division between the earthly dimension and the heavenly one of Spirit where God dwells. Earthly matter did not create itself, it was created by God's Spirit from the Heavenly realm.

    This is why the pagan religions are wrong about multiple spirit realms. It was Apostle Paul's spirit that was "caught up", not his flesh body. He was once stoned and left for dead, which is probably when it happened, like a NDE.
     
  18. Greetings in the Lord; ok guys, this is deep. This is meat, not milk. Infants proceed with caution, do not get chocked. I am not here to harm us but to help us and to fulfill what God has given me to do. I assure you many will be offended. Lord God speak unto the hearts that proceed, in the name of Jesus I pray thee.
    God brought something to remembrance while reading some posts, so I thought I would share it.
    I remember when God lifted the dark veil off these scriptures for me; WOW! God showed me where HE resides. Amen

    Psalms 104 esp. v. 2-4
    v.3 Who layeth the beams of His chambers in the waters: (KJV)
    v.3 Who lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters, (NKJV)
    v.3 The One building his upper chambers with beams in the very waters, (NWT)

    I mediated upon this scripture, (KJV) trying to get it, wanting to understand it the way God understands it. I wanted the wisdom and understanding of God in this matter. So I pondered it, mediate upon it, seeking God for the answer. Then one day as I sat by the lake side conversing with the Lord, this scripture came to me again. So I began to ponder it in my heart again; and all of a sudden the sun come out from behind a cloud (as lifting the dark veil) and the beams of it where cast upon the waters. WOW... The sun (the Son) is God's chamber. We can never look upon His face; even the beams from His chamber is blinding to us also. We can not even grasp the beam of it for longer than a couple seconds and even then, our eyes do water and hurt and are made blinded for a moment.

    God resides within His chambers (the sun, the SON). As born again believers, we also reside within the Son (by Him, for Him); we (I) have been caught up into heavenly places (the rapture). Have you been raptured yet? God is a Spirit. The (rapture) being caught up is a spiritual, eternal thing; not a physical catching away, but one of Spirit. We better be caught up with Him in heavenly places right now, if we want to be resurrected (caught up, raptured) in heavenly places with Him when this flesh body returns to dust. There are no strangers in heaven; those who have tried to climb up some other way will be tossed out.

    Do not be deceived. The "rapture" preachers I have heard are preaching a physical "rapture"; every "body" sitting around waiting on God to just beam them up out of here. Has HE not beamed you up into heavenly places already? If He has not, you need to check self, not everyone else.
    But, two will be in the fields together, one will be caught up and the other left behind. Yes, I may be the one beside you and my flesh fall to the dirt and my spirit has returned (been resurrected) unto God who gave it; but you may be left, for you have never entered in, but tried to climb up some other way, and would not heed to the message that God delivered you while I stood beside you being caught up into heavenly places.

    The sun is God's chambers.
    The Son is God's chambers.
    Are (we) a resident of God's chambers?
    Do we reside in heavenly places? or earthly ones?
    Ye shall know them by their fruits.
    Let our conversation become as the gospel of Christ; rightly dividing the Word of Truth, being taught of the Holy Ghost, the only true Teacher.

    All praise, glory and honor be unto God. Amen
     
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  19. Scripture speaks of 3 heavens, the book of Enoch speaks of four seperate holding places for spirits after death and before the Great white throne judgement. By chance 3 + 4 equals 7. Regardless, its not really that important IMO. Live the life of faith God wants us to, and we will know the truth one day. Thats good enough for me, but some people want to know exactly how things will be and will argue about it for the sake of being right before others. I pray we all see whats truly important in life.
     
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  20. I have always heard Paul was caught up to the 3rd heaven, but it don't say Paul was caught up to the 3rd heaven.
    In fact Paul says in the first verse he would come to visions and revelations of the ( Lord ).

    Paul seen a vision of the the Lord.
    He couldn't tell whether he was
    in the body or out the body, when he seen the Lord.

    He seen where the Lord heard unspeakable words , which
    wasn't lawful for (a man)to utter.

    Then in verse 5 Paul says: Of such a one will I glory, yet of myself I will not glory

    So question being, if Paul will glory in such a one, but not in his self who would Paul glory in?

    l would say Paul would glory in the Lord Jesus .
     
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