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♥ Views from Heaven ♥

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Pondering thoughts -

Since Heaven has no pain, no tears, no hunger, no misery, no sores, no deformities, no blood, no sadness, no bad feelings, no stress, no un-comfortableness, no flaws, no health problems, no gossip, no negativity & so on WHY oh WHY do people tend to assume their loved one that has passed is "looking down on them"?

I get thinking that for the comfort part BUT had they READ, GAINED KNOWLEDGE & REALLY understood the words that are in the bible they would NOT assume anything like that at all. I mean who in their right minds would want their loved one watching them go through pain & misery unable to reach out & help? Guardian angels are real I know this BUT for me to actually want my mom or grandma look down at me at my lowest times is pure insanity to me. That would be like watching my own daughter in harms way & I am unable to deter the harm. That would also bring me sadness. Heaven doesn't contain any sadness.

Since my own mom passed away the 22nd of this month there is NO WAY I would ever want her to be "looking down" on me. The stress level with this funeral is off the charts. The things I have been doing pertaining to her passing is pure madness. The ONE & ONLY stress reliever is the fact that she was saved & I can bet my own life on that fact. There isn't a single doubt, or wonder of "what if or maybe" when I think about her eternity. Now my baby brother who passed away at 22 in 2002 - I have doubt, I have what if, I have wonder. That in itself is extremely painful.

One of the most awesome things about God is that when saved people get to heaven they will not have any memory of their loved ones that are going to hell. This time on earth is nothing more than a blink of an eye to God. It's so fragile & so quick. We tend to take for granted tomorrow thinking we will be given a tomorrow. The bible states that tomorrow is up to him & him only. Many people want to get their drinking, drugging & fornication out of the way before they turn to the Lord "tomorrow". Everyone isn't going to wake up tomorrow. Everyone that assumes they have time to do what they want to do & make things right later won't get that time. It will be too late. I believe that is why Christians do it NOW. Why wait? Maybe because the drunkenness was more important, maybe the girl or guy they thought they would never have a chance to be with is giving them a chance but is that worth spending eternity in Hell? A night of nothing for an eternity in hell just doesn't sound even to me.

If someone could chime in & let me know how they feel on this subject that would be awesome!!


Love you Jesus Lovers - Always


Mindy ♥
 
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1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Hmm,this verse tells me you're brother is sanctified by a believing parent.
You don't hear that verse preached much for some reason but I think it's important.
This is not the only scripture that shows this concept.
There is Noah who by faith built an ark to the saving of his family.
There is Rahab who's whole family was saved by her faith that the Israelites would take the city.
There are more examples but the main thing to remember is that God is love.
Love is not cruel,in fact love does not demand it's own way and keeps no record of wrong.
 
Active
Firstly sorry for your terrible loss!! You are in my prayers!!

Pondering thoughts - Since Heaven has no pain, no tears, no hunger, no misery, no sores, no deformities, no blood, no sadness, no bad feelings, no stress, no un-comfortableness, no flaws, no health problems, no gossip, no negativity & so on WHY oh WHY do people tend to assume their loved one that has passed is "looking down on them"? Mindy ♥
I don't agree with the emotions. God displays all the emotions. Anger, joy, compassion, grief, jealousy.

I get thinking that for the comfort part BUT had they READ, GAINED KNOWLEDGE & REALLY understood the words that are in the bible they would NOT assume anything like that at all. I mean who in their right minds would want their loved one watching them go through pain & misery unable to reach out & help? Guardian angels are real I know this BUT for me to actually want my mom or grandma look down at me at my lowest times is pure insanity to me. That would be like watching my own daughter in harms way & I am unable to deter the harm. That would also bring me sadness. Heaven doesn't contain any sadness.
I believe your mom is watching you. Many use Heb 12:1 for support. But for me simple common sense. God will not restrict us from this. God has got nothing to hide. Your mom will want to help you and she will have God's ear. But God will tell her / she will know that God has your ear. God is watching you. God loves you more then anyone else wanting to help you. Hence our loved ones will better grasp God's will for our lives and fully agree with Him. Not because He forces them to, but because they agree with Him.

Now my baby brother who passed away at 22 in 2002 - I have doubt, I have what if, I have wonder. That in itself is extremely painful.
Sorry to hear. That is young. I know that in the wilderness there was a time when God spared all under 20 from His wrath. I would not stress either way. God is good. Even to those that go to hell.

One of the most awesome things about God is that when saved people get to heaven they will not have any memory of their loved ones that are going to hell.
I don't agree at all with this. God removes our blinkers (no glass darkly). He does not remove our memories. We just look at everything for what it is and we have His peace and anointing on us. Only tyrannical dictators with things to hide will brainwash us and remove our memories. Our God is good and the epitome of love. We will not cry for our lost loved ones because we will know they are in God's hands. We will agree with God's plan for them. We will also see why God could not bring them to heaven. I also personally believe we will be able to interact with them. Will God stop me from visiting my brother if I ask Him? Of course not. I just don't see it.

Maybe because the drunkenness was more important, maybe the girl or guy they thought they would never have a chance to be with is giving them a chance but is that worth spending eternity in Hell? A night of nothing for an eternity in hell just doesn't sound even to me.
As a Christian you have the ability to judge yourself and all / most matters 1 Cor 6:1-12, 1 Cor 11:31 and 1 Cor 2:15. If you say it is not even, it is not even. God will ensure all punishment is even Rom 2:6.
 
Active
Hi there LordKnows. Yours is a very interesting thread, to say the least. I am so very sorry to hear that your wonderful Mom has gone to be with our Lord Jesus. Sorry for you, delighted for her. At 75 years old, I can't wait to make a similar journey myself. My O so dear Wife Jennie, died of cancer at the age of 50 in 1993. Like you, I was devastated. I found that every 30 days, the pain lifts a little. The first 30 days was extremely hard. I would come home after work, come thru the door and burst out crying because she wasn't there.

The next 30 days, no crying, the pain in my heart lifted a little. The next 30 day period, I started thinking about taking care of myself and the pain in my heart lifted a little more. I hope you just hang in there my Sister because it does get better in time. There will be times when memories will flood your mind and that's the good part, sad in a way, but good.

As far as your Mom and my Wife Jennie, I don't believe that they can see or know what's going on in our lives. My good Brother KingJ quoted Hebrews 12:1 as a source of Scripture that might support his view.... "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses"....The word witnesses could mean that those listed in Chapter 11 were simply witnesses for Jesus the Son of God, during their lifetimes.

There is no other place in Scripture, to my knowledge, that states that the departed Saints can view what we are doing. So I can't build a theory on a questionable verse that might support my view....So, I agree with your statements, good post for pondering, thank you.
 
Loyal
@LordKnows

The tears for one from above belonged to Jesus while he was here below in flesh to feel and to see as do every one of us in our flesh. But as you paraphrased some things written in scripture so it must be to those who are presently and forever with the Lord:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Rev 21:4

If they could see us, they would have to cry from sorrow because they would see the misery which is still in and around us who lives in this fallen land of men.

I am praying that God help you and others during this initial time of empty places in your hearts. The loss will never be forgotten, but the pain will become tolerable. I lost my father in 1992 and my mother in 2006. Each time the blow was great, but the memories of my good times with them are mine as your memories are yours. Always cherish them.
 
Loyal
Mindy very sorry for you loss.

LUKE 15:7
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

this verse tells me that people in heaven know something that is going on down here on earth, as they have joy when a sinner repents, we know there are no sinners in heaven, so they must be talking about a sinner on earth that has repented that causes people in Heaven to rejoice. Thats my take on it another thing I might add wich is just a thought, is when people are in heaven they probably see things in a entirely different light then we can even imagine seeing things. Just my opinion.
 
Loyal
My dear sister in Christ

Thank you for sharing the thoughts and the concerns of your heart, you are very brave many would not do or be able to do this. Bless you sister.

Firstly I must confirm my thoughts and prayers are with you, the loss of your dear and much loved mum is a void in your heart at this time, a void that will heal in time but your memories will never fade, they are yours, they are precious, they are born in you through the Grace and Love of God.

I thank you for inviting brothers and sisters in Christ to comment on your message, it is a heartfelt message for sure, but one I feel is searching that even in this hurtful period you want to see that you are in all situation right with God. May he truly bless you in abundance, even to overflowing sister.

Allow me please to confirm from your statements what I feel is incorrect thinking. I am limited for time at this special period in our year so will probably only have time to reply a little at a time, forgive me is my posts only cover part and come in small bites over a few days.

Taking this statement first if I may... [no blood] interesting comment, you say...

Since Heaven has no pain, no tears, no hunger, no misery, no sores, no deformities, no blood, no sadness, no bad feelings, no stress, no un-comfortableness, no flaws, no health problems, no gossip, no negativity & so on WHY oh WHY do people tend to assume their loved one that has passed is "looking down on them"?

Revelation 21:3-4 (NIV2011)
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”


Let us not 'add words' to scripture as our heart searches for meaning of God’s Word. I will leave at this stage your comments... no hunger, no gossip, etc but will pick up on one statement if I may. That is 'no blood'.

I guess this depends on what time period of heaven we are focusing on. What I mean here is... when we die and go to heaven we are Spirits, in Paradise, but this is not what the Lord has promised for us, this is just a taste of what is to come.

When it comes to a death, people believe what they want to believe to make things more acceptable in the minds (not their hearts), I don't need to list here the views some have, some are based on coping with grieving, some are based on what we have heard or been told over the years, some are spiritual as the devil does not want us to accept there is life after death, he does not want us to come to Jesus.

On the other hand, Charles Spurgeon had a different view, a Biblical view, 'To come to Thee, is to come home from exile, to come to land out of the raging storm, to come to rest after long labour, to come to the goal of my desires and the summit of my wishes'.

God has made us and wants us to desire what He has planned for every born again believer in Christ Jesus, a resurrected life, in a resurrected body, with the resurrected Christ on a resurrected earth. Resurrected people living in a resurrected universe is not our idea, it is God's plan for us.

When we are resurrected as Jesus promised, we will have resurrected bodies, just like Jesus had after the resurrection. Jesus' body had blood, it had been resurrected, it had been restored, our new bodies, after Christ's return, will be resurrected bodies like Jesus' resurrected body. Jesus was not a ghost neither will we be. Jesus ate fish his disciples couldn’t see through him nor did they see the fish go down into his body, he ate with them in his new resurrected body.

His body, his resurrected body was a real body, a real resurrected body, we have the promise we will have one also.

Bear in mind, blood is important, it runs through the vein of every page in our Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. Blood is as important in the body as the heart is and the Bible has a lot to say about our heart also.

I smiled sister when you added the statement we will not hunger, although scripture didn't actually say that, we can be sure we will not hunger. In The New Jerusalem, in Paradise, there is a river running through the centre, on each side of the river, which goes straight up to God’s Holy Throne, are trees. These trees will bear fruit, different fruit for every month of the year. It doesn’t say what the fruits are, but it does say they will be there are bear different fruits each month. The fruit could be apples, oranges, pomegranates, etc, one thing for sure... we will not hunger in heaven dear sister you are so right.

Revelation 22:1-6 (KJV)
1
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.


I will come back to some of your comments at another time, if that is alright, your message is a blessing to read, may the Lord Bless you, guide you, and protect you, and lead you in the path of righteousness all the days of your life for his name sake. Jesus loves you sister we do too.
 
Active
Let us not 'add words' to scripture as our heart searches for meaning of God’s Word. I will leave at this stage your comments... no hunger, no gossip, etc but will pick up on one statement if I may. That is 'no blood'.
Jesus shed his blood on the earth and it's still here.
In this world the life is in the blood and that's why we are just living and are seeking life in Christ.

On the other hand, Charles Spurgeon had a different view, a Biblical view, 'To come to Thee, is to come home from exile, to come to land out of the raging storm, to come to rest after long labour, to come to the goal of my desires and the summit of my wishes'.
That is very flowery wording but conveys very little meaning or actionable information.
But it is awesome that God has a preacher for every level of understanding.
Spurgeon was instrumental in my walk in that he caused me to look deeper.

When we are resurrected as Jesus promised, we will have resurrected bodies, just like Jesus had after the resurrection. Jesus' body had blood,
Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

I have not seen any evidence in scripture that a resurrected Jesus had or even needed blood.
Jesus had life in himself because he is life.

1 Corinthians 15:45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam a life-giving spirit.
being in a human body is not life,it is living while waiting for death.
The resurrection is spiritual and it can happen "now".

John 5:25 Timeless truth I speak to you: The hour is coming, it is even now, when the dead shall hear the voice of The Son of God, and they who hear shall live.
We can wait until we leave the flesh but it seems as though it may not be necessary to die first.
Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Do you remember this event?
Apparently the mind of Christ does.
 
Loyal
Greetings brother.

Jesus shed his blood on the earth and it's still here.
In this world the life is in the blood and that's why we are just living and are seeking life in Christ.
There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away

Jesus shed his blood on earth, he is still here, yes he did, yes he is. And blood runs through the veins of every page of our Bible from Genesis to Revelations.

Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

I have not seen any evidence in scripture that a resurrected Jesus had or even needed blood.
Jesus had life in himself because he is life.
But, God created Adam from the dust of the earth and at that time 'put blood in his veins', Adam was in Paradise before the fall with blood in his body, he had blood in his body before and after the fall. Why then should we not accept when Paradise is regained, that we will not have blood in our bodies? We will be in heaven as spiritual beings until we have resurrected bodies, once we have resurrected bodies it seems to me that we will have blood in our bodies as Adam had before the Fall.

Jesus was resurrected from the dead, Hallelujah Christ is Risen. Initially he said do not touch me, but later encouraged Thomas to touch him. His body was resurrected, he was a living being, he ate with the disciples, etc. God restores all things and makes them new, He raised Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit and made him new again. The spiritual elements of Jesus and heaven for us apply until Christ Returns, the devil is defeated and we receive our resurrected bodies, just like our Lords. A resurrected body surely must have blood in it, that is how God created Adam, Jesus born of Mary, and us; a resurrected body is the old body made new, There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away
 
Loyal
One of the most awesome things about God is that when saved people get to heaven they will not have any memory of their loved ones that are going to hell. This time on earth is nothing more than a blink of an eye to God. It's so fragile & so quick. We tend to take for granted tomorrow thinking we will be given a tomorrow. The bible states that tomorrow is up to him & him only.
Tomorrow is definitely up to God Mindy, but sadly today, in this world there are many things that influence what people believe, most are definitely not in the Bible, many are out of compassion that a grieving person is told things to comfort them in their time of loss. For me and I feel for you from what you have said, we would no doubt prefer the truth, but sadly it doesn't always happen that way. But, when a person gets to heaven will they have any knowledge of those still on earth, this is a question that is answered over and over again over the centuries, does scripture tell us anything to help us know that has to be the question?

I don't agree at all with this. God removes our blinkers (no glass darkly). He does not remove our memories. We just look at everything for what it is and we have His peace and anointing on us. Only tyrannical dictators with things to hide will brainwash us and remove our memories. Our God is good and the epitome of love. We will not cry for our lost loved ones because we will know they are in God's hands. We will agree with God's plan for them. We will also see why God could not bring them to heaven. I also personally believe we will be able to interact with them. Will God stop me from visiting my brother if I ask Him? Of course not. I just don't see it.
I agree brother KingJ, God will not remove our memories, they are special to us, they will remain with us I believe when we go to heaven (as born again believers.

But I cannot believe we will have any contact with a family member or anyone else who has not accepted Christ, according to God's Word, we must be born again, we are either lost or saved, there is no luke warm. I grieve the loss of my mother, my dad, my step dad and many more who were not born again and are lost souls for eternity. God's Word is very clear and is written for everyone as it is God's will that not one soul will be lost.


LUKE 15:7
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

this verse tells me that people in heaven know something that is going on down here on earth, as they have joy when a sinner repents, we know there are no sinners in heaven, so they must be talking about a sinner on earth that has repented that causes people in Heaven to rejoice. Thats my take on it another thing I might add wich is just a thought, is when people are in heaven they probably see things in a entirely different light then we can even imagine seeing things. Just my opinion.
This verse is taken from the parable of the lost sheep. The rejoicing here refers to the rejoicing of a soul on earth that was lost and is now saved. It doesn't state in this parable that those in Heaven will see this but does say there will be joy in heaven as a result of it. The question for us to ponder I think is, will those in heaven experience the joy because God is joyful that a soul is saved, because the angels in heaven are joyful because a soul is saved, or do those in heaven actually see or just know the soul or which soul is saved?

Luke 15:7 (KJV)
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.


This is an interesting topic.

There is no other place in Scripture, to my knowledge, that states that the departed Saints can view what we are doing. So I can't build a theory on a questionable verse that might support my view....So, I agree with your statements, good post for pondering, thank you.

Good post for pondering indeed brother. But will those who are in heaven know what is happening on earth. Scriptures doesn't say directly as far as I am aware but their are verses to consider.

When Babylon is brought down, an Angel points to events happening on earth and says ...

Revelation 18:20 (KJV)
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.


That Angel specifically addresses people living in Heaven indicates they are aware of what's happening on earth.

Further, there is the roar of a great multitude in Heaven shouting Hallelujah

Revelation 19:1-5 (KJV)
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great *****, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.


The saints in Heaven clearly appear to be observing what is happening on Earth.

Heaven's saints return with Christ to set up His Millennium Kingdom

Revelation 19:11-14 (KJV)
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.


Does it not therefore seems unthinkable to imagine they would have remained ignorant of the culmination of human history taking place on Earth.

God and His Angels and the saints themselves are about to Return for the ultimate battle in the history of the universe, after which Christ will be crowned King.

Those on Earth may be ignorant of what is happening in Heaven but those in Heaven are not ignorant of what is happening on earth.

When called from Heaven to the transfiguration on Earth, Moses and Elijah

Luke 9:30-31 (KJV)
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.


They seemed fully aware of the drama they had stepped in to, as well as when to step into it, and of what was transpiring on earth at that time, and of God's redemptive plan about to be accomplished. And surely they returned to Heaven remembering everything that had happened.

Hebrews 12:1 (KJV) tells us to...
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,


The unfolding drama of redemption, awaiting Christ's Return, is currently happening on Earth. Earth is centre stage, awaiting Christ's Return and establishing His Kingdom. Does this not seem a good reason to believe that the current inhabitants of Heaven would be able to observe what is happening on Earth.

In Heaven Christ watches closely what happens on Earth, especially in the lives of God's people. Rev 2-3
Angels saw Christ on Earth...

So God knows, Jesus knows, Angels know... do the born again believers in heaven know what is happening on earth or only know throuth Good, Jesus and Angels?

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


There are clear indications that the Angels know what is happening on Earth.

1 Timothy 5:21 (KJV)
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.


If Angels know, why not saints? Wouldn't be right to expect the 'Body of the Bride of Christ' still living on Earth?

Jesus Christ said as we read earlier

Luke 15:7 (KJV)
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.


This is similar...

Luke 15:10 (KJV)
10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.


Notice here it does not speak of rejoicing by the Angels but speaks of... in the presence of the Angels.

Who therefore is doing the rejoicing in Heaven?

God and the saints who truly appreciate the wonder of human conversion, especially the conversion of those they knew on Earth.

If they rejoice over the conversion happening on Earth, they must be aware of what is happening on Earth.


As brother Copper said above, a good topic to ponder. Probably one worth our consideration before we ask...

do the born again believers in Heaven pray for those on earth?
 
Active
Another very thoughtful post with Scriptures to back up your theology. Very good instruction and excellent pondering. I'm not one who believes that there is any communication from Heaven to earth. The only communication from earth to Heaven is prayer to our Heavenly Father. My dear Wife and partner in 13 years of being a pastor's Wife, Jennie, died in 1993 and went home to be with the Savior that she loved so much.

There are times when I'll ask Jesus to look up Jennie, give her a hug and tell her I love and miss her. I wish we could communicate with each other, but we see in the Old Testament, that's forbidden as we see Saul making that mistake.
 
Loyal
Brother Paul wrote
This verse is taken from the parable of the lost sheep. The rejoicing here refers to the rejoicing of a soul on earth that was lost and is now saved. It doesn't state in this parable that those in Heaven will see this but does say there will be joy in heaven as a result of it. The question for us to ponder I think is, will those in heaven experience the joy because God is joyful that a soul is saved, because the angels in heaven are joyful because a soul is saved, or do those in heaven actually see or just know the soul or which soul is saved?

LUKE 15:7
I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.


Very interesting, we agree that the rejoicing in heaven is because of the lost soul that has repented. So I would have to think that the people in heaven know why they are rejoicing, so they have some knowledge to what is going on down here on earth, , but this verse to me suggest with out almost any doubt that those rejoicing in heaven know someone down here on earth has been saved, to think they are rejoicing with out a reason I do not accept.
 
Loyal
Scripture is fascinating, over and over again The Word seems to tell us, hang on don't rule things out there is still more information in my Word for you to find.

As for those in heaven, they are safe, they are saved, it could be they don't know what goes on down here, not in any detail anyway, their eyes will be on Jesus, God will protect them from the sins and bad in this world, they will be in awe, even more so when they get their resurrected bodies.

We know God knows, our Lord intercedes for us so he also knows, the Holy Spirit carries out God's wishes so he knows a lot to. The angels will probably not know as much but they will know when a soul is saved. As for our loved ones we don't know for certain how much they really do know, it could be they just join in with the rejoicing and praising the Lord.

What ever they know doesn't really matter, it is just us humans missing our loved ones that causes us to think they are looking down on us and hope they are thinking of us as we are thinking of them.

Meanwhile it is important that we search the scriptures and pray the Truth in the Word is revealed to us, either directly to us or through others we pray and share with.

But, it is sad is when people on earth, believers or not, are told or tell untruths as to what our loved ones can see or know. What is even worse, I believe, is when pastors or born again believers tell untruths, whether they are trying to be compassionate or not. Every born again believer has a responsibility not to mislead the flock or the world, this doesn't mean we as believers shouldn't discuss things together as what is right or wrong, possible or not possible, it is important and healthy I think for us to share what we believe is, could be, may be, or definitely isn't, including subjects like this one that we cannot know for sure one way or the other.
 
Loyal
Another very thoughtful post with Scriptures to back up your theology. Very good instruction and excellent pondering. I'm not one who believes that there is any communication from Heaven to earth. The only communication from earth to Heaven is prayer to our Heavenly Father. My dear Wife and partner in 13 years of being a pastor's Wife, Jennie, died in 1993 and went home to be with the Savior that she loved so much.

There are times when I'll ask Jesus to look up Jennie, give her a hug and tell her I love and miss her. I wish we could communicate with each other, but we see in the Old Testament, that's forbidden as we see Saul making that mistake.
Bless you brother.
 
Loyal
Hey Brother Paul thanks for your great post. Here is a copy and paste from one of my favorite authors, he wrote the book Heaven and this man walks the talk believe me.

First, would it even be possible for someone in Heaven to know what's happening on earth, and be able to hear us say anything? Many assume the answer is no. But in Matthew 17, Moses and Elijah clearly already knew the events going on when they appeared with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. In Luke 15 Jesus speaks of rejoicing in the presence of the angels, not BY the angels but in their presence, whenever a sinner repents, suggesting God's people in heaven rejoice at God's work in lives on earth. To rejoice at it, they obviously must be aware of it. And Revelation 6:9-11 shows martyrs in Heaven who are clearly aware that God hasn't yet brought judgment on those who persecuted them, and are wondering why. So they know some of what's happening on earth.
 
Loyal
Dear brother Dave M

When I study a subject, I first place all scripture on the table for consideration and ensure I keep an open mind, the more we know and understand about scripture the harder it becomes but an open mind is essential. But in doing so in a group, in fellowship, it is easy especially in the early stages of the study to be misunderstood, this happened recently when discussing the Law in another thread. So firstly, after prayer, add all scripture relating to the topic is considered, first the verse(s) (in context), then the group of verses, then verses that may appear to conflicts with each other.

Reading other literature is fine, we all do it, but the books are a persons view, the books we read as a third party reading are more or less a modern day commentary, many are convincing, but not all are correct I am afraid to say.

Chopper commented early in the thread that the verses I had stated were well backed with scripture, and appear to be saying those in heaven do not what is going on here on earth and those in heaven can see what is happening. But that was the early stages of adding scripture, with an open mind, to further study, to encourage discussion. When we closely analyse the scriptures again, it is easy to see how a reader may think people in heaven know what happens on earth but further prayer and study reveals they do not. As you have stated the book on Heaven you read puts up a good argument those in heaven must know what happens on earth, Moses and Elijah are commonly used here in this argument.

After a lot of study on this subject over the years (not just this thread), I agree that some of those in heaven could know what is going on here on earth but not all I certainly do not believe our loved ones can see us from heaven or know what is happening here on earth. God would not let us see this sinful world and the things happening here, there is so much sin, to much evil on earth. When a born again believer goes to Heaven, the old order of things have gone, we are with God in Paradise, yes those in heaven will rejoice for every soul that is saved, not because they can see it happened on earth but because they join in with the rejoicing that is going on in heaven.

God knows everything that is going on that is for sure, Jesus is the intercessor of our prayers, he is as we know God's son and he will know almost as much as God does (but he doesn't know the day or hour God will command him to return for his church, his bride), as for Moses and Elijah they may know more than most but I am sure even they knew when to come to Jesus on earth until the Father in Heaven commanded them. The world makes a big thing of angels but they are just ministering spirits so I doubt if they will not know a lot. Yes scripture confirms the saints are shouting and asking when, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” But this doesn't mean they can see earth, they are calling 'when', they have no doubt called out many times but the answer is... 'rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.' This is telling us they are very keen to see justice that is promised but doesn't say they can see earth or what is happening here.

God is in control, he always has been, he always will be, he will say when the time is, for Jesus to Return, for the judgement to take place, and for us to be called to go to heaven.

Meanwhile on earth we have work to do and be patient, when in heaven, providing we are born again of course, we will enjoy being in the presence of God, being with Jesus, we will be in awe in the New Jerusalem, seeing the heavenly hosts, being in the brightness of light, being in the presence of the spirit and in the peace of God which will still no doubt passeth our understanding.

Our loved ones that were born again when they took their last breath on earth are safe in God's care, God's presence and in God's love, he will not let them see or hear anything that can change that, they wanted to be in heaven, they are in heaven, we just have to make sure we get there too and trust God for everything else. One day, in God's time, we will be with them, one day, in God's time Jesus will return and the devil will be defeated, one day, in God's time we will receive resurrected bodies, everything will happen as God has promised in his time, until then he knows his sheep, his sheep know him, his sheep will be carefully and lovingly looked after in his fold. Thanks be to God.
 
Active
Scripture is fascinating, over and over again The Word seems to tell us, hang on don't rule things out there is still more information in my Word for you to find.

As for those in heaven, they are safe, they are saved, it could be they don't know what goes on down here, not in any detail anyway, their eyes will be on Jesus, God will protect them from the sins and bad in this world, they will be in awe, even more so when they get their resurrected bodies.

We know God knows, our Lord intercedes for us so he also knows, the Holy Spirit carries out God's wishes so he knows a lot to. The angels will probably not know as much but they will know when a soul is saved. As for our loved ones we don't know for certain how much they really do know, it could be they just join in with the rejoicing and praising the Lord.

What ever they know doesn't really matter, it is just us humans missing our loved ones that causes us to think they are looking down on us and hope they are thinking of us as we are thinking of them.

Meanwhile it is important that we search the scriptures and pray the Truth in the Word is revealed to us, either directly to us or through others we pray and share with.

But, it is sad is when people on earth, believers or not, are told or tell untruths as to what our loved ones can see or know. What is even worse, I believe, is when pastors or born again believers tell untruths, whether they are trying to be compassionate or not. Every born again believer has a responsibility not to mislead the flock or the world, this doesn't mean we as believers shouldn't discuss things together as what is right or wrong, possible or not possible, it is important and healthy I think for us to share what we believe is, could be, may be, or definitely isn't, including subjects like this one that we cannot know for sure one way or the other.
That my friend is a very truthful statement. I agree totally that Pastors or other leaders should not mislead people about those who have passed on from this life. Thank you for your post.
 
Member
Pondering thoughts -

Since Heaven has no pain, no tears, no hunger, no misery, no sores, no deformities, no blood, no sadness, no bad feelings, no stress, no un-comfortableness, no flaws, no health problems, no gossip, no negativity & so on WHY oh WHY do people tend to assume their loved one that has passed is "looking down on them"?

I get thinking that for the comfort part BUT had they READ, GAINED KNOWLEDGE & REALLY understood the words that are in the bible they would NOT assume anything like that at all. I mean who in their right minds would want their loved one watching them go through pain & misery unable to reach out & help? Guardian angels are real I know this BUT for me to actually want my mom or grandma look down at me at my lowest times is pure insanity to me. That would be like watching my own daughter in harms way & I am unable to deter the harm. That would also bring me sadness. Heaven doesn't contain any sadness.

Since my own mom passed away the 22nd of this month there is NO WAY I would ever want her to be "looking down" on me. The stress level with this funeral is off the charts. The things I have been doing pertaining to her passing is pure madness. The ONE & ONLY stress reliever is the fact that she was saved & I can bet my own life on that fact. There isn't a single doubt, or wonder of "what if or maybe" when I think about her eternity. Now my baby brother who passed away at 22 in 2002 - I have doubt, I have what if, I have wonder. That in itself is extremely painful.

One of the most awesome things about God is that when saved people get to heaven they will not have any memory of their loved ones that are going to hell. This time on earth is nothing more than a blink of an eye to God. It's so fragile & so quick. We tend to take for granted tomorrow thinking we will be given a tomorrow. The bible states that tomorrow is up to him & him only. Many people want to get their drinking, drugging & fornication out of the way before they turn to the Lord "tomorrow". Everyone isn't going to wake up tomorrow. Everyone that assumes they have time to do what they want to do & make things right later won't get that time. It will be too late. I believe that is why Christians do it NOW. Why wait? Maybe because the drunkenness was more important, maybe the girl or guy they thought they would never have a chance to be with is giving them a chance but is that worth spending eternity in Hell? A night of nothing for an eternity in hell just doesn't sound even to me.

If someone could chime in & let me know how they feel on this subject that would be awesome!!


Love you Jesus Lovers - Always


Mindy ♥
Mindy
Quite right, I often think of the friends and family of mine that are NOT saved..and while I am here on the Earth, It grieves me so so much. However you can only do your best to share the Gospel with people.
I am sorry for your loss, I know God will use time to bring you healing.
Before I go I know this World is so tough to live in but compared to eternity in heaven with the Lord It's going to be so Worth it!
God bless you and keep you safe.
 
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But I cannot believe we will have any contact with a family member or anyone else who has not accepted Christ, according to God's Word, we must be born again, we are either lost or saved, there is no luke warm. I grieve the loss of my mother, my dad, my step dad and many more who were not born again and are lost souls for eternity. God's Word is very clear and is written for everyone as it is God's will that not one soul will be lost.
I believe we will. I also believe the Bible points there. Just like we can calculate the unknown side of a triangle if the angle and other two sides are known.

Firstly I am surprised that many believe some are given personal tours of hell...now.... but yet in the afterlife it will cease. I would sooner believe the possibility in the afterlife vs tours now :laugh:.

Anyway, the facts on which many safe assumptions of the afterlife can be made are:

1. God is exceedingly good.
2. He is love 1 John 4:8
3. He is light with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5
4. He is just 2 Thess 1:6.
5. The greatest in heaven is whoever is the most 'lowly' / humble Matt 18:4
6. We are currently able to judge and discern at a very high level 1 Cor 11:31, 1 Cor 6:1-8.
7. In the afterlife even more so 1 Cor 6:3, 1 Cor 13:12.
8. God is not annihilating the enemy.
9. God tells us to love our enemies.
10. God is not a hypocrite, He loves His enemies too.
11. Jesus did not die for angels.
12. James 5:20 'remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sin'.

Safe assumptions:

There is a possibility in the future that more angels fall. God does not ever remove our free will. There is a high possibility that many of us will still do evil. But because of Jesus, be covered. The decision to accept Jesus truthfully was a depth of intent that God always sees vs our sins. Much like James 5:20 explains.

God could likely be the one serving us at the great banquet in heaven. God is entrusting us with judging angels. We are going to reign with Jesus. Is there a place we will be restricted from if we are reigning, free and reporting to the most loving and humble being in existence...? I just don't see it ;).

If we can currently treat our enemies with the Geneva convention, how much better will we treat them in the afterlife? How much better then us will God treat them? We can currently visit the worst of the worst in prisons and take them some fresh fruit. Consider the Norwegian mass murderer claiming that no company is torture Anders Breivik's 'torture' claims over outdated Playstation 2 rejected. God does not torture. We do not torture. As evil as this mass murderer is, a Christian will highly consider / give in to his request. Why, because Christianity 101 / God 101 = Love your enemies as yourself. Loving is not naivety. We accept that many hate God and need to be separated. This does not mean, we have to hate them nor suggest God hates them. Disregarding them is hating them. Torturing them is hating them.
 
Active
If we are unable to visit them and they are doomed to forever live in darkness and suffering it would be more merciful for God to annihilate them. God is not going to annihilate them and God is exceedingly merciful and loving, forever and ever Psalm 100:5 'For the LORD is good and his love endures forever'.
 
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