I'm sorry you have such a negative view of church. That hasn't been my accounts at all... Of course I live in the midwest, and maybe it is different. Our church is full of the kindest people I have ever met and I do not hear ANY gossip at all! Nothing negative! Our pastor has a good heart and I believe he prays a lot... more than me, I wish I prayed more. I am getting better, but it is hard work to get your routine down.

Also, our church is not all dressed up. I would say most wear slacks and a nice shirt. There are older folks that dress up in suits and dresses, but I think it is an age thing. Our pastor doesn't even dress in a three piece suit. It doesn't matter how big the Bible you carry is as long as you trust the words inside.

I hope I didn't misunderstand your post. I am sure there are many churches that don't have the right mindset and probably don't work to their fullest potential. Our church has 500 to 700 members.

RebeccaR said:

I hope I didn't misunderstand your post. .

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Don't worry you did....



I am speaking of Christianity in general, I know there are some good churches out there, although very few in comparison to false churches.

Unfortunately it may be sad, but true that some churches (if a majority) are not truly in line with the Word and sincere in their walk with Christ. However, its not for us to judge but to pray. What do we gain by judging and not praying for them? Does GOD not love His church, even those led astray and lost again? He does, unconditionally.

I have gone to 4 churches in my life since I've been born again. They were all truly Christ centered, kind people and genuine in their faith. No complaints.

We need to pray for them. I personally couldn't care less for what "statistics say". Are they so accurate? If they were, what is the point then? What's the reward in knowing this truth, or How is GOD glorified?

Our job is to reach out to the lost and pray for the people in this world, everyone. Not nick pick whomever we care to love and pray for. That's not what Christ taught us to do. He said not to take part in the world, but He never said to not pray for them. He died for the world, and He desires for all to be saved by accepting Him as Savior.

Chad said:

Unfortunately it may be sad, but true that some churches (if a majority) are not truly in line with the Word and sincere in their walk with Christ. However, its not for us to judge but to pray. What do we gain by judging and not praying for them? Does GOD not love His church, even those led astray and lost again? He does, unconditionally.

I have gone to 4 churches in my life since I've been born again. They were all truly Christ centered, kind people and genuine in their faith. No complaints.

We need to pray for them. I personally couldn't care less for what "statistics say". Are they so accurate? If they were, what is the point then? What's the reward in knowing this truth, or How is GOD glorified?

Our job is to reach out to the lost and pray for the people in this world, everyone. Not nick pick whomever we care to love and pray for. That's not what Christ taught us to do. He said not to take part in the world, but He never said to not pray for them. He died for the world, and He desires for all to be saved by accepting Him as Savior.

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I do pray for them, I pray for God to expose and strike down false prophets and for those blind sheep to have their eyes opened to the truth of salvation. But turning a blind eye and acting like the problem is not that bad is not the solution either, and if you don't think that Satan has a stranglehold on the churches of America then you are already deceived my friend. It's true that the most lost people in the world, the most unreachable souls on this planet, are regular church going attendees that are completely ignorant to the truth in the word, their hearts are as hard and cold as stone, and their pride is as high to climb as a mountain. Try telling a Catholic about Jesus and you will see what I am talking about.

ThatGuy said:

I do pray for them, I pray for God to expose and strike down false prophets and for those blind sheep to have their eyes opened to the truth of salvation. But turning a blind eye and acting like the problem is not that bad is not the solution either, and if you don't think that Satan has a stranglehold on the churches of America then you are already deceived my friend. It's true that the most lost people in the world, the most unreachable souls on this planet, are regular church going attendees that are completely ignorant to the truth in the word, their hearts are as hard and cold as stone, and their pride is as high to climb as a mountain. Try telling a Catholic about Jesus and you will see what I am talking about.

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I never said Satan doesn't have a stranglehold on the churches. I think you need to read carefully before you go assuming about. Try telling a Catholic? You couldn't teach me anything here. I have 100's of catholic family members. I spent 13 years in private Catholic schools and I don't adore the catholic system nor its teaching one bit. However, I love the people themselves and do not judge them. So really you don't need to talk at all.

Now, what is the motive behind this thread of yours and the goal? Are you calling the church a lie or are you asking? Going by your last reply, you state the church is a lie. Ok. Your entitled to your opinion based on your limited understanding. We all are. However, what is the motive here?

ThatGuy said:

we get all dressed up and fancy on Sunday morning, we carry our nice big bibles, we sit through church,

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Dear brother,

I think it is better to look at ourselves before we look at other people in the church. Are we sincerely doing what God has called us to do? Are we sincerely honouring and praising God in our hearts every day? Are we trying to become like Jesus (The Holy Spirit is there to guide us, are we willing to follow Him?)

When we are at Church, God sees our heart, not the physical appearance (How do you look? What do you wear?). There is nothing wrong if you dress up fancy and go to Church, but we should not draw the attention of other people towards us. We should focus on God and God alone, because He sees our heart.

God bless you.

NOTE: I just don't know what you really intended to tell in this thread, but I just want to tell you that our focus should be on God and God alone, or else our attention will get deviated from Godly things.

Sorry ThatGuy but even I cannot support on this one. First please don't run down Christianity and assume the Church is a baced on Christianity. That has never been very accurrate. Christianity is a personal thing baced on you faith in the Lord, your acceptance of the Lord. Even Jesus said some religious ppl will be lost. That is baced on that they expect their church to be an intermediary with Christ, that is wrong. Matthew7:21>23. Matthew6:5&6. Matthew6:16&17 I can list these all night but I made my point. I will recommend you check out Matthew5:21>30, Luke6:27>42. Our faith has to start in our hearts, and reach out with all humility. We(true Christians) are the Lords sheep sent out among the wolves to regather His flock, someone with you hostility, cannot fill this role because the objectiveness simply isn't there.

ThatGuy,

I have been banned from message boards several times for saying exactly what you said in your original post.

In Jeremiah 14:14-16 and Jeremiah 23:16-17, we see that the false prophets claiming to be from God preached that the cities would not be taken by sword or famine. Despite the sins of the people, they heard about the heavenly blessings of God. That is why Jesus says in Luke 6:22-23, (paraphrased from KJV) "Blessed are you when men speak ill of you for my name's sake, because that is how their father's treated the prophets." Then in verse 26 He goes on to say, "Cursed are you when all men speak well of you, because that's how their fathers treated the FALSE prophets."

Today it's all about our reputations with men. Joel Osteen takes great pride in not "offending anyone." He preaches peace and prosperity despite the sins of the people. Rick Warren prides himself on more of the same, and Bill Hybels built a church on the concept of giving the world what they want.

John 15:19 says that if we were of the world, the world would accept us. But Jesus called us OUT of the world.

I want to encourage you to continue speaking truth in a world that hates truth and loves it's sin! I have been banned from message boards, mocked by pastors, and even had many problems inside the home because of today's pop-Christianity; which is completely and utterly false.

It is far better to light one single candle than curse the darkness.

Pray for those who through confusion, misunderstanding and lack of wisdom (knowledge of God's word) oppose themselves and are gone astray.

The light of a single candle can lead many out of their darkness and back into the light of God's grace and salvation.

While your concerns are well founded, nothing is gained, no one is saved without prayer to move the hand of God. Remember that the bible tels us that the effective fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

May God richly bless and protect you all

ThatGuy said:

These days in America, when someone says church the first thing to pop into someone's head is those big name televangelists on TBN, the 10,000 member mega-church on the rich side of town, big cathedrals with huge crosses and stained glass windows. We live in a generation that has embraced the lie that is Christianity, we get all dressed up and fancy on Sunday morning, we carry our nice big bibles, we sit through church, and then come monday we're back to partying with Pharaoh. We live in a tolerant generation where preaching on sin is taboo, we want to hear about how much God can bless us, how He can give us big cars and good jobs, but when it comes to personnal commitment we turn our necks. The bible says the kingdom of God is like a treasure that a man finds in a field, and when he finds it he goes and sells all he has to buy the field so he can have that treasure.

That is what the kingdom of God is, it is the free gift that will cost you everything, including your life. But that is where the church in America stops. Statistics say %80 of Americans claim to be born again Christians, statistics also say that the average church going evangelical gives less than %1 of his or her income to their church, the average pastor in America prays for only 5 minutes every day. Is it fair to say that the church is a lie? The word of God says Satan comes as an angel of light, a beutiful and magnificent angel, and this angel has infiltrated the church to the point where millions of people in this "Christian" nation are being deceived by the lies of false teachers and religion.

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That Guy!

I am going to save my wrists from carpal tunnel and follow you around saying, "Amen, Amen!" your view express those that are precious to me........God did not die to make us complacent.......and I know that the evil one has control of this world for the time being.

Thank you for the time you give to post things here.

Praise God as He is magnified in us!

ThatGuy
I want to apologize if I sounded heavy handed on my first post on this thread. All I wanted to point out is that Christianity is not what is twisted today... it is neither a religious order nor is it a refuge for bible thumping wannabe born agains. It is however a way of life. I spend alot of time on-line making this distinction. The religious orders have been trying to warp Christianity before the Roman Catholic Church was sanctioned. The Gospels spell out "exactly" what Christianity is and accepting Christ and keeping the Gospels is the ONLY way to become a Christian. As far as the rest od your thread was awesome and we Christians need another passionate voice like yours.
Thank you your brother in Christ

DeaconBob3 said:

It is far better to light one single candle than curse the darkness.

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who quoted this??

I've been away for a short time, as some of you might know and I was very excited to come back and fellowship. Needless to say I was disappointed to find an argument amongst brethren so quickly and easily.

ThatGuy raised an interesting topic that has a lot of truth in it and almost everybody misunderstood him and hammered him for that. Did any of you consider that he might be speaking the truth? Did any of you pray for wisdom on the matter? Who of you is humble enough to admit that?

I understand what ThatGuy is saying, and he speaks with a lot of wisdom. The contempory church has lost the plot and it is not only wise to notice this but it is our duty to do something about it. God doesn't just want prayer, He wants action too.

This is not called "judging". If you had to see a murderer in action, would calling him a murderer be judging him? No of course not. It is obvious he is a murderer. Same goes with the church. If we can see the errors of the contemporary church, pointing them out (in order to help/correct them) would not be judging. This is what God would call love and obedience. We are to point out sin especially among brethren. It is the person who is being rebuked who will feel judged, but this depends on if they are humble or proud. To accept a rebuking is very humble in God's eyes, but who will do the rebuking? We see it, we know it, but we don't say or do anything but pray? God is not going to come down from heaven and sort it out now, no he expects us to work for Him here on earth on His behalf with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and with the knowledge He has given us. He will judge the world, yes, but then it will be too late to "fix" any errors in the church and then not only will he judge those involved in the false church but He will also punish those who knew about it and did nothing.

Paul wrote many letters to the different churches telling them of their errors, did he just pray? No, he spoke to them boldly and rebuked them. We should do the same. Afterall, they are using our God's name, we should defend His name and not let anyone spill out lies about Him or our faith.

A lot of the churches of all denominations are now unfortunately fell under the influence of the great harlot of Babylon as foretold in the book of revelation... And A lot of Christian people have too.. albeit they are none the wiser. We are told as Christians we must be more tolerant of homosexuals and of other people with a lax moral code.. listen brothers and sisters the laws were written down we don't have to interpret them for ourselves.. They were put in simple plain speech so even a child of 5 could understand them. And also don't add to what god has already said is a sin because only he makes that decision not you,,! So arrogant the human race can be to put words into the mouth of God.... I fear for you all that do. Please brothers stop doing this. You anger him greatly

A lot of churches are involved with the prosperity gospel, you either serve God or you serve money you can't serve both.

ThatGuy said:

These days in America, when someone says church the first thing to pop into someone's head is those big name televangelists on TBN, the 10,000 member mega-church on the rich side of town, big cathedrals with huge crosses and stained glass windows. We live in a generation that has embraced the lie that is Christianity, we get all dressed up and fancy on Sunday morning, we carry our nice big bibles, we sit through church, and then come monday we're back to partying with Pharaoh. We live in a tolerant generation where preaching on sin is taboo, we want to hear about how much God can bless us, how He can give us big cars and good jobs, but when it comes to personnal commitment we turn our necks. The bible says the kingdom of God is like a treasure that a man finds in a field, and when he finds it he goes and sells all he has to buy the field so he can have that treasure.

That is what the kingdom of God is, it is the free gift that will cost you everything, including your life. But that is where the church in America stops. Statistics say %80 of Americans claim to be born again Christians, statistics also say that the average church going evangelical gives less than %1 of his or her income to their church, the average pastor in America prays for only 5 minutes every day. Is it fair to say that the church is a lie? The word of God says Satan comes as an angel of light, a beutiful and magnificent angel, and this angel has infiltrated the church to the point where millions of people in this "Christian" nation are being deceived by the lies of false teachers and religion.

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You are showing yourself to be part of the lie. The religion that came out of Rome produced Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants. It is not the religion that came out of Jerusalem.

None said:

who quoted this??

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The English Wesleyan minister William Lonsdale Watkinson used the expression in The Supreme Conquest, and other sermons preached in America, 1907:

"Denunciatory rhetoric is so much easier and cheaper than good works, and proves a popular temptation. Yet is it far better to light the candle than to curse the darkness."

ThatGuy said:

These days in America, when someone says church the first thing to pop into someone's head is those big name televangelists on TBN, the 10,000 member mega-church on the rich side of town, big cathedrals with huge crosses and stained glass windows. We live in a generation that has embraced the lie that is Christianity, we get all dressed up and fancy on Sunday morning, we carry our nice big bibles, we sit through church, and then come monday we're back to partying with Pharaoh. We live in a tolerant generation where preaching on sin is taboo, we want to hear about how much God can bless us, how He can give us big cars and good jobs, but when it comes to personnal commitment we turn our necks. The bible says the kingdom of God is like a treasure that a man finds in a field, and when he finds it he goes and sells all he has to buy the field so he can have that treasure.

That is what the kingdom of God is, it is the free gift that will cost you everything, including your life. But that is where the church in America stops. Statistics say %80 of Americans claim to be born again Christians, statistics also say that the average church going evangelical gives less than %1 of his or her income to their church, the average pastor in America prays for only 5 minutes every day. Is it fair to say that the church is a lie? The word of God says Satan comes as an angel of light, a beutiful and magnificent angel, and this angel has infiltrated the church to the point where millions of people in this "Christian" nation are being deceived by the lies of false teachers and religion.

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So, that guy, are you saying something like this has happen to the “institutionalized church”?

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

24Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature [creation] rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 1: 22-25).
So now are you saying they worship the “the Church” instead of “the Creator”. The queen instead of (The KING). Esther instead of King Xerxes? Why, that is a state of “APOSTASY”

the word is quick and powerful!! sharp, and a discerner of the thoughts!! right now its stripping the "wheat" from the "tears" heb 4:12