We will see what we see when we see it.

I truly believe that there will be a rapture, however, there are three views of it. The pre, post, and mid tribulation rapture. In many years of study, I have found that all three views can indeed be argued for successfully. None of the three views is presented in such an overwhelming fashion as to win the day. All three can be backed with numerous verses. Yet each leaves some verses that do not fit in with their chosen view. As such I personally believe that the matter will be resolved in a very simple manner. Namely, when Christ arrives, that's when He will be there.

The Church in Revelation

Love the posts David39.

Another point to consider on this subject, is how the Church (of true believers) is mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

The church is mentioned many times in Revelation chapters 1-3, especially chapters 2 and 3, which are all about the Church.

Then the Church is not mentioned at all for several chapters. Why? Because these chapters are all about God's wrath, and we will be spared God's wrath. (Rev 3:10) We are not around anymore.

For seven years God will unleash a period of retribution and judgement, called the Day of the Lord, on the Gentiles who rejected Christ and on the Jews who rejected Christ. This period will culminate with Jesus second coming to earth when He defeats the nations at the battle of Armageddon. Many Jews will turn to Christ in the end and realise at last that He is their true Messiah.
[People will still be saved (and many martyred) through this tribulation period.]

The church is mentioned again in Revelation chapters 19 onwards, as being in heaven and then coming with Christ, when He returns to earth to begin His millenial rule from Jerusalem.

Personally I believe that a Pre-tribulation rapture fits all the Scriptures best.

Maranatha


evangeline

MAJ52653 said:

I truly believe that there will be a rapture, however, there are three views of it. The pre, post, and mid tribulation rapture. In many years of study, I have found that all three views can indeed be argued for successfully. None of the three views is presented in such an overwhelming fashion as to win the day. All three can be backed with numerous verses. Yet each leaves some verses that do not fit in with their chosen view. As such I personally believe that the matter will be resolved in a very simple manner. Namely, when Christ arrives, that's when He will be there.

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Hi MA...

I think we must be both reading from the same map on this point. I've sometimes thought the Lord has made these things deliberately ambiguous so no one can tell for sure, and there is probably great wisdom in that.

What I'm more interested in is us fulfilling God's prophetic call on our own lives in the hear and now, and if possible hastening Lords coming.

evangeline said:

Another point to consider on this subject, is how the Church (of true believers) is mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

The church is mentioned many times in Revelation chapters 1-3, especially chapters 2 and 3, which are all about the Church.

Then the Church is not mentioned at all for several chapters. Why? Because these chapters are all about God's wrath, and we will be spared God's wrath. (Rev 3:10) We are not around anymore.


evangeline

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Amen evangeline - this is something was made clear to me many years ago, and gave me great comfort.

Falling Away

2. Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Version)

3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, ---(I feel that there are 2 subjects here. Being deceived and That man of sin ).--- and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; I believe the words “falling away first” are God’s people giving up and leaving the church,. I feel that what God is saying to us is “I’m telling you what is going to happen so you will know but don’t get discouraged, Hang on, it’s almost time.”

I agree that the temple must be rebuilt and agree with Steve1979 that it will be built after the rapture has taken place. I believe it will be after the anti-christ shows both sides how they can live in peace and they sign a 7 year peace treaty.

Do we all realize why the rapture even happens? The general consensus and belief that people hold is to spare us from the Wrath of God during the seven years of tribulation here on earth. Even though that will be so, that’s not the real reason for the rapture. I’m sure you’ve all noticed that throughout God’s word, Christ is referred to as being the Groom and His church is referred to as being the Bride. Those aren’t just idle words.

Christ the Bridegroom is coming to take his bride, the Church (born again people). Where is he taking them? To a wedding of course. The wedding is in heaven and it takes place during the 7 years of tribulation which will be going on here on earth. When you read in the bible about Christ being the Groom and the Church being the Bride, just think of it as the Groom (Christ), coming to take you to where he is in heaven, when we are taken in the rapture to be with the Lord. We are going to a wedding feast in heaven.

I have always believed too that those on the white horses who are following Christ when He comes back to earth to rule and reign, are those who were taken in the rapture.

Rev 19:7-8

7. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


Rev. 19:11-14<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
11. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True. And in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but himself.
13. And he was clothed in a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called the Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, (and that’s us)
Notice how verses 8 and 14 use the same description?
Hang in there everyone, its almost time to go to the wedding.

Perfectly correct

Tonyb said:

Hi MA...

I think we must be both reading from the same map on this point. I've sometimes thought the Lord has made these things deliberately ambiguous so no one can tell for sure, and there is probably great wisdom in that.

What I'm more interested in is us fulfilling God's prophetic call on our own lives in the hear and now, and if possible hastening Lords coming.

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Indeed, Jesus Himself said several times that no one knows the hour, day, time season etc. Notice also how very few people got it right when He gave all those clues as to where and when His first coming would be. After He was born in Bethlehem, crucified, rose etc., then everyone understood. But so very few got it before. I have no doubt that it will be like that at the second coming. Afterwards everyone will sit back and say: "Oh, so that's what He meant."

Rewards given in Heaven

FROM DAVID 39

Do we all realize why the rapture even happens? The general consensus and belief that people hold is to spare us from the Wrath of God during the seven years of tribulation here on earth. Even though that will be so, that’s not the real reason for the rapture. I’m sure you’ve all noticed that throughout God’s word, Christ is referred to as being the Groom and His church is referred to as being the Bride. Those aren’t just idle words.

Christ the Bridegroom is coming to take his bride, the Church (born again people). Where is he taking them? To a wedding of course. The wedding is in heaven and it takes place during the 7 years of tribulation which will be going on here on earth. When you read in the bible about Christ being the Groom and the Church being the Bride, just think of it as the Groom (Christ), coming to take you to where he is in heaven, when we are taken in the rapture to be with the Lord. We are going to a wedding feast in heaven.

I have always believed too that those on the white horses who are following Christ when He comes back to earth to rule and reign, are those who were taken in the rapture.

Rev 19:7-8

7. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


FROM EVANGELINE

I also believe that during this period, when we are in heaven, we will be judged according to our good works: the things that we have done for God, prompted by faith, obedience and love. 2 Corinthians 5:10 refers to this judgement as the Bema Seat of Christ. Our works will be judged as to whether they were good or useless. (It is not the White Throne Judgement.)

We will not be judged according to our sins because they have been fully atoned for by the blood of Jesus. This judgement is for people who are already saved!!!

God wants us to be fruitful...He has work for us to do. See Ephesians 2:10

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 speaks of believers who will scrape through this judgment of Christ with nothing much to show for themselves except their salvation - which is a gift from God. Others will have their work tested, revealing gold and silver and precious stones: treasures in heaven!

People who have been faithful to God with their gifts and talents on earth will be rewarded. One way we will be rewarded is that we will be given authority and commissions to be used during the millenial reign of Christ. (This is what the parable of the talents is all about.) We will truly reign with Christ. See 2 Timothy 2:12a and Revelation 2:26

Matthew 16:27, Luke 14:14 and 2 Timothy 4:8 are some other verses which speak about eternal rewards for our good deeds done in obedience to Christ...and there are plenty more verses.


evangeline

I haven't fully developed my personal theology regarding the rapture yet, as I've not yet advanced in my Bible studies that far. As a young kid and a teen I just accepted my parent's beliefs regarding the rapture as truth. And while I still hold to their belief that there will be a rapture, I want to study for myself.

Right now I believe the rapture will happen. I am not yet certain whether it will occur before, during, or after the tribulation.

It's kind of funny, but I have great Christian friends from different denominations pulling me in all sorts of directions on this. They want so badly for me to accept their views, but I just really need to study God's Word and accept His views on it, if you get my meaning.

I love my brothers and sisters in Christ so much. But honestly, they usually just confuse this poor old country boy. So I'm thankful God left the Bible (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth), so I can take my time and through study and prayer learn the truths for myself.

Amen Freddie I absolutely agree with you. The Word of God is here to give us direction and the truth. People always have different opinions. You are very wise to choose to read it for yourself to find out the real truth.

God bless you :rainbow: :rose:

Hello Folks,

Personally I think the rapture maybe a long way off – in human terms. And anyone who thinks that they could be raptured out of things sometime in the near future is probably laboring under a massive misapprehension. Before Christ comes for his bride there needs to be a time of preparation, of revelation, and a lot of Christendom has no real revelation of the bride and the bridegroom nor of the prophetic that needs to be fulfilled before the marriage feast of the Lamb.

Blessings,
Tonyb

rapture reply

ok, so now I am more confused. No where in the scriptures is the word "rapture" .

Some authors seem to put many texts together in the spriptures that may not have the same relevance to each other to try and "prove" this rapture thing. I do believe that at the comming of Christ that those that remain (perhaps indicating that many believers will die before Christ comes in some sort of calamity(s)) that they will be caught up to meet Him in the air. I do believe that when Christ does this it will be at the beggining of the mellinial reign of a thousand years that Christ will preside over, and probably after the tribulations.

In the last hundred years there have been many ancient texts unearthed that are books that we know of in the new testament that predate those that were translated by the transnlators of the new testament that we are familiar with in this country today. There are variations in this theme of the "rapture" within these texts. Not by much though.

If you believe God's hand is in all things, then perhaps His hand is in these discoveries as well.

lotsofquestion said:

ok, so now I am more confused. No where in the scriptures is the word "rapture" .

Some authors seem to put many texts together in the spriptures that may not have the same relevance to each other to try and "prove" this rapture thing. I do believe that at the comming of Christ that those that remain (perhaps indicating that many believers will die before Christ comes in some sort of calamity(s)) that they will be caught up to meet Him in the air. I do believe that when Christ does this it will be at the beggining of the mellinial reign of a thousand years that Christ will preside over, and probably after the tribulations.

In the last hundred years there have been many ancient texts unearthed that are books that we know of in the new testament that predate those that were translated by the transnlators of the new testament that we are familiar with in this country today. There are variations in this theme of the "rapture" within these texts. Not by much though.

If you believe God's hand is in all things, then perhaps His hand is in these discoveries as well.

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So because the word "rapture" is not in the bible, neither is the word "bible" in the bible. Does that mean the bible is false? I don't think so. The word trinity is not in the bible, does that mean the Father, Son, Holy Spirit are not 3 persons of one GOD?

These "ancient texts" you speak of, have you seen each and every one of them and compared them yourself? You studied every single one of these brother to go off calling rapture a concept (your other thread) and claim that all the Scripture quoted by the members in this thread (and another) are "opinions"?

Where is your humility to submit to GOD and let Him teach you instead of you teach yourself?

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your ownunderstanding;

OK, there is an evangelistic christian who has already done some of the research on ancient texts. His name is Bart D. Ehrman. A "scholar" who wrote many books on ancient texts including one called "Misquoting Jesus" Also wrote "Lost Christianities" . Both great reads for those who do not wish to remain "ignorant". Both are books delving into the origins of the bible we have today and how it came to be. Of how different and similar the christianity(s) of today is from the ancient church.

The only way you can truly believe that Christ is the Son of God and our saviour from death is that God revealed it to you at some time. You may have even remembered the moment that you were "born again". The Bible just helps you to understand what that means and what to do. It is not complete. It is one of the things that has survived over the centuries to tell us of Christ. The Catholic Church decided what to include in the Bible and what not to include. If the ideas in the letters and writings of the apostles and early church leaders did not agree with what the church at that time believed, then it was not included.

lotsofquestion said:

OK, there is an evangelistic christian who has already done some of the research on ancient texts. His name is Bart D. Ehrman. A "scholar" who wrote many books on ancient texts including one called "Misquoting Jesus" Also wrote "Lost Christianities" . Both great reads for those who do not wish to remain "ignorant". Both are books delving into the origins of the bible we have today and how it came to be. Of how different and similar the christianity(s) of today is from the ancient church.

The only way you can truly believe that Christ is the Son of God and our saviour from death is that God revealed it to you at some time. You may have even remembered the moment that you were "born again". The Bible just helps you to understand what that means and what to do. It is not complete. It is one of the things that has survived over the centuries to tell us of Christ. The Catholic Church decided what to include in the Bible and what not to include. If the ideas in the letters and writings of the apostles and early church leaders did not agree with what the church at that time believed, then it was not included.

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It is not complete, Mr.lotsofquestions? You are 100% wrong. You did not come here to seek truth, you came here to defend the catholic *system*.

Let's take a look at how many 'questions' you've came to ask:
- you claim rapture concept
- you mocked every member who posted in two rapture threads, calling there quoted Scripture "opinions"
- you claim now the Bible is not complete
- you claim you must be a prophet to interpret Scripture
- you defend the catholic system (read info here on the truth about catholicism)

Account closed for attempting to preach false doctrinal matters. Your motive here is absolutely clear

Just something simple

I have read some extensive debates concerning the rapture, & although they are interesting & thought-provoking, one thing stands out in my mind: If I don't continue to seek God, build a love relationship with Him, & engage in the process of becoming like Him, the rapture won't matter. Whether the rapture comes or not, I just want to be rapture-ready. An ounce of preparation, is worth a million tons of regret. Let's stay prepared to stand before Jesus, whether he comes for His church as a whole, or individually. No doubt: HE IS COMING!!!

That's how you do it, Chad! Shut 'em DOWN!! Yeah, Baybeee!!! Thank God for you, man. Wherever you see wrong, I don't care if it's me, handle your business! Too many souls in the balance for mess & junk! If the truth is not what we come for, we're in the wrong place!! Thank the Lord God for your boldness! Continued strength, Bro, in the matchless name of Jesus!!!

Permetheus said:

I have read some extensive debates concerning the rapture, & although they are interesting & thought-provoking, one thing stands out in my mind: If I don't continue to seek God, build a love relationship with Him, & engage in the process of becoming like Him, the rapture won't matter. Whether the rapture comes or not, I just want to be rapture-ready. An ounce of preparation, is worth a million tons of regret. Let's stay prepared to stand before Jesus, whether he comes for His church as a whole, or individually. No doubt: HE IS COMING!!!

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Excellent comment, I couldn't agree more. We need to be released into the prophetic by walking in and fulfilling the call of God in our lives. Lets not get caught with out oil in our lamps.

Blessings,
Tonyb

God is the only One who can keep us focused. I don't have enough intelligence within me, so i can't help but to glorify & magnify God. He transformed me from being a lying, cheating, stealing, wanna-be hustla, to a child of God. He does for me what no drug I have ever taken can do. That's what excites me about Christ. Since He changed my life & gave me peace, if I take on the challenge of persuing a relationship with Him, how much more will he do! He said He has gone to prepare a place for me. Since He is preparing the place, I MUST prepare to meet Him, whenever He calls me! There's nothing wrong with learning, because that's half the battle. But the part that gets us in is found when we put what we learn into action. That's the power & influence that helps to win the lost. I have to do all I can, because I don't know how much time I have left, before night gets here.

One Love,
Permetheus

It's not in the bible.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any way I am in Him & He is in me NOW.:shade:

This is true. But according to 1 Thessalonians 4:17 the definition for rapture, 'caught up', is. Like I said before, none of this matters if we are not ready to meet Christ in the first place. The challenge isn't what we know or how much we know: it's what you DO with what we know. I found out that the only way we will be ready for meeting Jesus is to be full of His Spirit, & full of His Love. If we don't love, we don't know God, for God is Love(I John 4:8) I can't speak for anybody else, I just want to be ready. That, is the truth.