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WATER BAPTISM ISN'T FOR US

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DougE

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Washings and water baptism was only required for Israel.

[Leviticus 14:8 KJV] "And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days." ********* Water was prescribed to cleanse the children of Israel.

[Exodus 29:4 KJV] "And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water." *********** Priests were washed with water

[Exodus 19:5 KJV] "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:"
[Exodus 19:6 KJV] "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." ********** Believing Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests.

[Matthew 3:2 KJV] "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
[Mark 1:4 KJV] "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." ************ John exhorted Israel to repent because their promised millennial kingdom was at hand. John baptized Israel with water to cleanse them of sin to be fit to be priests in the kingdom.

[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." ********** Peter likewise water baptized Israel to be cleansed of their sin to enter the kingdom and fulfill their priestly office

[Hebrews 9:10 KJV] "[Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation."
[Ezekiel 36:24 KJV] "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land."
[Ezekiel 36:25 KJV] "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you." ************* Washings were imposed on Israel until the return of Christ and the fulfillment of the new covenant; at that time Israel will be cleansed.
As a side note, at least in this verse, water baptism was accomplished by sprinkling

[Ephesians 5:26 KJV] "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word," ********** The body of Christ is not commanded to be water baptized. Water baptism is not supported for us, and any explanation for it's practice is absent from Paul's epistles. Water baptism serves no purpose for us. We are washed by the Word of God.
 
So you don't believe you have to follow the Lord? Ya just gotta talk the walk? Hmm thats interesting I've ran into a few like you .
 
DougE said:
Washings and water baptism was only required for Israel.

[Leviticus 14:8 KJV] "And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days." ********* Water was prescribed to cleanse the children of Israel.

[Exodus 29:4 KJV] "And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water." *********** Priests were washed with water

[Exodus 19:5 KJV] "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:"
[Exodus 19:6 KJV] "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." ********** Believing Israel was told they would be a kingdom of priests.

[Matthew 3:2 KJV] "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
[Mark 1:4 KJV] "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." ************ John exhorted Israel to repent because their promised millennial kingdom was at hand. John baptized Israel with water to cleanse them of sin to be fit to be priests in the kingdom.

[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." ********** Peter likewise water baptized Israel to be cleansed of their sin to enter the kingdom and fulfill their priestly office

[Hebrews 9:10 KJV] "[Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation."
[Ezekiel 36:24 KJV] "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land."
[Ezekiel 36:25 KJV] "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you." ************* Washings were imposed on Israel until the return of Christ and the fulfillment of the new covenant; at that time Israel will be cleansed.
As a side note, at least in this verse, water baptism was accomplished by sprinkling

[Ephesians 5:26 KJV] "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word," ********** The body of Christ is not commanded to be water baptized. Water baptism is not supported for us, and any explanation for it's practice is absent from Paul's epistles. Water baptism serves no purpose for us. We are washed by the Word of God.
Click to expand...

This view is classic hyper-dispensationalism mixed with Calvinistic-style division theology.

Points to consider:

1. Water baptism did not originate merely as Jewish ceremonial washing.
2. Jesus commanded baptism for disciples universally.
3. The apostles practiced baptism after the resurrection.
4. Gentiles were baptized too.
5. Paul himself baptized people and never condemned the practice.

--------------

Your argument confuses Old Testament ceremonial washings with New Testament Christian baptism.

Yes, Israel had ceremonial washings under the Law. But that does not mean Christian baptism is merely a Jewish ritual that expired. Circumcision existed before the Law too, yet Christian theology understands fulfillment and transformation rather than simplistic dismissal.

The biggest problem with your argument is that Jesus Himself commanded baptism after His resurrection:

Matthew 28:19:
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

“All nations” destroys the claim that baptism was only for Israel.

Mark 16:16:
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...”

Again, no limitation to ethnic Israel.

You claim Peter only baptized Israel because of kingdom promises, yet Gentiles were also baptized with water:

Acts 10:47-48:
“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized... And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.”

Those were Gentiles in Cornelius’ house. Peter explicitly commanded water baptism for Gentile believers after receiving the Holy Spirit.

Your argument also collapses when we get to Paul.

You say water baptism is absent from Paul’s ministry, yet Paul personally baptized people:

1 Corinthians 1:14:
“I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius.”

If baptism was obsolete or forbidden for the body of Christ, why was Paul baptizing anyone at all?

Paul also assumed believers had been baptized:

Romans 6:3-4:
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”

Galatians 3:27:
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Paul nowhere warns Christians to stop water baptism. Instead, he warns against trusting rituals for salvation.

That is the real distinction:
Baptism does not save us, but it is still a commanded act of obedience and public identification with Christ.

You are also forcing Ephesians 5:26 into a false either/or argument. Being cleansed by the Word does not cancel baptism any more than being saved by grace cancels repentance, prayer, or communion.

And the “sprinkling” comment from Ezekiel 36 proves nothing. Ezekiel is prophetic symbolism about cleansing and restoration. Christian baptism in the New Testament is repeatedly associated with burial and rising again:

Romans 6:4:
“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death...”

Burial imagery fits immersion far more naturally than sprinkling.

This hyper-dispensational attempt to divide Jesus, Peter, and the Great Commission away from modern Christians creates major contradictions:
  • Jesus commanded baptism.
  • The apostles practiced baptism.
  • Gentiles were baptized.
  • Paul baptized converts.
Therefore baptism clearly was not merely a temporary Jewish cleansing ritual.
 
DougE you have a lot of odd thoughts, and we can show you scripture with context but you ignore them, and just go with your thought.
 
KingJ said:
This view is classic hyper-dispensationalism mixed with Calvinistic-style division theology.
Click to expand...
I have heard this hyper-dispensationalism cliche parroted before
Define it
Define what you mean by Calvinistic style division
 
KingJ said:
Yes, Israel had ceremonial washings under the Law. But that does not mean Christian baptism is merely a Jewish ritual that expired. Circumcision existed before the Law too, yet Christian theology understands fulfillment and transformation rather than simplistic dismissal.
Click to expand...
water cleansings and circumcision was only commanded to Israel
There is no command for us for either one in Paul
 
KingJ said:
Matthew 28:19:
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

“All nations” destroys the claim that baptism was only for Israel.
Click to expand...
Water baptism was a requirement to enter the earthly kingdom

No Gentiles were baptized before Acts 10

Gentiles will be baptized in the kingdom. There was no command for this until Matthew 28 and Mark 16
 
KingJ said:
You claim Peter only baptized Israel because of kingdom promises, yet Gentiles were also baptized with water:
Click to expand...
[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." ********** Peter likewise water baptized Israel to be cleansed of their sin to enter the kingdom and fulfill their priestly office

Where did I say ONLY?

Gentile water baptism isnt elaborated in scripture that I know of. I dont know why they were
 
KingJ said:
If baptism was obsolete or forbidden for the body of Christ, why was Paul baptizing anyone at all?
Click to expand...
I dont know it isnt stated
He also took an vow according to the law ******** [Acts 18:18 KJV] "And Paul [after this] tarried [there] yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn [his] head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow."
 
KingJ said:
That is the real distinction:
Baptism does not save us, but it is still a commanded act of obedience and public identification with Christ.
Click to expand...
This was for Israel. Israel was commanded water baptism and confession of Jesus
You cant find either one in Paul
 
Twistie said:
So you don't believe you have to follow the Lord? Ya just gotta talk the walk? Hmm thats interesting I've ran into a few like you .
Click to expand...
I apply what Christ taught and commanded in his earthly ministry to Israel if it is stated in Paul's epistles.
Paul has given us all our doctrine/instructions/and commandments
All that Paul gives us came from Christ Jesus
 
Act 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the word.
Act 10:45 And all the circumcised believers who came with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Act 10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and magnifying God. Then Peter answered,
Act 10:47 “Can anyone refuse water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?”
Act 10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for a few days.

Baptism is for Gentiles.


Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he proclaimed the good news about Jesus to him.
Act 8:36 And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”
Act 8:37 [And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”]
Act 8:38 And he ordered the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

Baptism is for Gentiles.
 
KingJ said:
Those were Gentiles in Cornelius’ house. Peter explicitly commanded water baptism for Gentile believers after receiving the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
As I said scripture doesnt say why Gentiles were baptized
I thought more and think maybe is is related to Mark 16
[Mark 16:15 KJV] "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." ****** The gospel to be preached was the gospel of the kingdom
[Mark 16:16 KJV] "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ******** Gentiles in Acts 10 believed on his name and were commanded to be baptized to be saved to enter the kingdom
[Mark 16:17 KJV] "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" ********** The Gentiles spoke in tongues
 
B-A-C said:
Act 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the word.
Act 10:45 And all the circumcised believers who came with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Act 10:46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and magnifying God. Then Peter answered,
Act 10:47 “Can anyone refuse water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?”
Act 10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for a few days.

Baptism is for Gentiles.


Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he proclaimed the good news about Jesus to him.
Act 8:36 And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”
Act 8:37 [And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”]
Act 8:38 And he ordered the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

Baptism is for Gentiles.
Click to expand...
[Mark 16:15 KJV] "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." ****** The gospel to be preached was the gospel of the kingdom
[Mark 16:16 KJV] "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ******** Gentiles in Acts 10 believed on his name and were commanded to be baptized to be saved to enter the kingdom
[Mark 16:17 KJV] "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" ********** The Gentiles spoke in tongues

In both cases Gentiles believed on the name of Jesus. They were to believe Jesus was Christ, the Son of God. Jesus commanded that the Gentiles believe and be baptized. They would be qualified to enter the millennial kingdom along with believing Israel
 
DougE said:
Water baptism was a requirement to enter the earthly kingdom

No Gentiles were baptized before Acts 10

Gentiles will be baptized in the kingdom. There was no command for this until Matthew 28 and Mark 16
Click to expand...

Doug, the issue is that you are reading Scripture as if God had one plan for “Israel” and a completely separate set of rules for Gentile believers, but the New Testament does not support that separation.

First, Gentiles were baptized before Acts 10 in principle and promise already. John’s baptism was never limited to Israel ethnically, and Jesus Himself said “make disciples of all nations, baptizing them” (Matthew 28:19). That alone debunks your argument.

Second, Acts 10 actually proves your statement wrong in practice, not supports it. Cornelius and his household were Gentiles, received the Holy Spirit, and were then immediately baptized in water (Acts 10:47–48). Peter did not say, “this is only for Israel,” but explicitly commanded Gentile baptism.

Third, Paul’s ministry also contradicts your claim. He baptized Gentile converts and assumed churches were already baptized (Romans 6:3–4; Galatians 3:27). That is not “kingdom-only Israel practice,” that is church-wide apostolic practice.

Finally, the idea that baptism is only for an “earthly kingdom Israel program” ignores that the Great Commission was given after the resurrection to the apostles as a global mission. There is no verse that restricts baptism back to ethnic Israel after Christ’s resurrection.

The New Testament shows baptisms clearly applied to all believers in Christ, Jew and Gentile alike.
 
DougE said:
[Mark 16:15 KJV] "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." ****** The gospel to be preached was the gospel of the kingdom
[Mark 16:16 KJV] "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." ******** Gentiles in Acts 10 believed on his name and were commanded to be baptized to be saved to enter the kingdom
[Mark 16:17 KJV] "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" ********** The Gentiles spoke in tongues

In both cases Gentiles believed on the name of Jesus. They were to believe Jesus was Christ, the Son of God. Jesus commanded that the Gentiles believe and be baptized. They would be qualified to enter the millennial kingdom along with believing Israel
Click to expand...

The Gentiles received the Holy Spirit before water baptism (Acts 10:44–47), which proves baptism was not a requirement to enter salvation or the kingdom.

Peter’s point is that since they already received the Holy Spirit, no one could withhold baptism from them. Not that baptism made them qualified.

Acts 8 also shows the Ethiopian eunuch being baptized immediately upon believing in Christ, not under a “future kingdom Israel-only” system.

And Mark 16 simply says the gospel is to be preached to “every creature.” There is no restriction to Israel or a separate kingdom program.

So Acts 10 actually confirms that Gentiles are fully included in salvation by faith and the Holy Spirit, not through a separate baptism requirement tied to Israel.
 
KingJ said:
The Gentiles received the Holy Spirit before water baptism (Acts 10:44–47), which proves baptism was not a requirement to enter salvation or the kingdom.
Click to expand...
Yes this was the reverse but doesnt prove thy wouldnt enter the kingdom
 
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