Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Justifieth the ungodly while ungodly !

Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

All those whom Christ died for are not only reconciled to God " by His Death alone" while they are enemies/ungodly Per Rom 5:10, but also as informed by this present text Rom 4:5, they are being justified while in a state of ungodliness ! We know that they are being Justified while being ungodly because in the original Justifying is in the present tense and ungodly has the definite article before it, denoting that He is justifying those who are the ungodly. That word ungodly is asebés:

impious, ungodly, wicked,
lack of reverence ("without due respect"), i.e. failing to honor what is sacred

destitute of reverential awe toward God, contemning God, impious: Romans 4:5; Romans 5:6;

These words define what the justified ones are by nature in themselves while they are being Justified by God !

So basically, what we have here, those Christ died for are in a state of free Justification before God, while they are in a ungodly state in themselves by nature. In themselves ungodly, before God because of Christ Justified. The word justifieth is the greek word Dikaioo:

render righteous or such he ought to be
to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

It also is translated being freed as in Acts 13:39

and by him every one that believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

So while being ungodly in themselves, they are freed from being pronounced ungodly by the Judgment of God, and instead Righteous are they !

Now they are not just freed from this Judgment of being ungodly before God just for the sake of it, but because while being ungodly, they have Christ's Righteousness imputed to them, for Righteousness is imputed them without works Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Without works, works being :

/érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

So its imputed without any action of theirs, any desire of theirs, because they are in a state of ungodliness !

You see, God is Just in Justifying the elect while in a state of ungodliness, corruption and sin, for the sake of Christ's Righteousness He hath made unto them 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This is a truth that the natural man will not be able to receive, for its foolishness to them ! 9
 
What Rom 4:5 Teaches !

Rom 4:5 is one of the many scriptures that teach the Gospel doctrine of Justification before God prior to faith or believing Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

In this scripture its carefully indicated that the object of the believers Faith is God who Justifieth the ungodly or is justifying [present tense] the ungodly, now if being ungodly when Justifying them, then they were unbelieving; and yet He is Justifying them as such ! Because He that Justifies the ungodly justifies the unbeliever , the enemy, He is justifying them before their act of Faith or obedience to the Faith, which Faith evidences their Justification already in Christ !
 
Justification beware !

It must be careful on how we understand Justification before God legally by the Obedience/Death of Christ, and Justification by ones work/s whenever we have Justification applied to us by the New Birth, or given heart circumcision, whereby we participate, partake in a conversion experience, whereby we do act Repentance and Faith toward God and The Lord Jesus Christ.

If we however deny Justification before God legally [in the court of heaven] even while we are ungodly Rom 4:5 and enemies Rom 5:10, and unbelievers and do not hold to being Justified legally before God solely on the meritorious blood of Christ, and only what He did for us, and not yet what He does in us, then again we deny the Legal Grace aspect of Justification soley by Christ's Death and trust to what we do after having had Justification applied inwardly by the Holy Spirit. To trust in the Spirit's Work in us, for Justification before God legally, overthrows and comes into competition with the Lord Jesus Christ's Work for Us, and that alone being the basis for ones Justification before God; Thus subtle heresy is what has deceived many who claim Justification before God by Faith alone, not realizing they are still teaching a work based Justification before God, based upon what a man does as a result of a inward work in them.

Last thing, its very important, Once we tend to base Justification before God on a inward or inherent qualification, be it natural or Spiritual, we are guilty of turning to Justification by our works, and deny Justification before God solely upon the Work of Christ, which the Resurrection of Christ does testify unto Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

But once we look inherently even be it our graces from Spiritual New Birth, and say in our heart, for this God Justified me, we deny the Legal Justification of the Cross, and so deny the Cross altogether ! 9
 
All for whom Christ died are Justified !

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.


34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.


All for whom Christ died are Justified because :

#1 He died for them, and so Justified solely by His Blood Rom 5:9


9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

#2 Because He rose because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for [because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

#3 Because He sits on the Right Hand of God, and so they are also in Him Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

4 th He maketh Intercession for them, which doeth ensure their Justification by Faith, through the Spirit's Work in Them 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Now everyone Christ died for has an interest in His Resurrection as well Per Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for [because of] our justification.

and everyone who has an Interest in His Resurrection, have a interest in His Intercession for them at the Right Hand of God, who are already Justified Persons, and how do we know this ? Because all who had in a Interest in His Resurrection were Justified, since since He was raised up again for or because of their Justification Rom 4:25, Hence Christ intercession / advocacy is limited to the Justified Persons sitting with Him in Heavenly Places Eph 2:6

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 9
 
Before Gospel Obedience and while ungodly !

Are those that Jesus Christ died for, Justified from all sin before God's Law and Justice prior to any Gospel Obedience they shall render, such as Faith and Repentance ? Yes by all means they are, or how else can it be declared that God Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:4-6

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Gospel Obedience to the Truth is Godliness Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now if God Justifieth the Ungodly, then it cannot be after an act of Godliness ! And if it be not of works so that it can be of Grace, then it cannot be of any condition that was imposed upon the one being Justified !

Also if they [The Justified ones] are believing on Him [Rom 8:33] that is Justifying the Ungodly, then the verdict of Justification is being passed upon them while being Ungodly; Hence how can Faith, Repentance, or any Gospel ordinance or obedience be a condition to Justification before God , when its based upon Christ's Finished Work for them ?

Then once again, men that Christ died for are Justified before God , apart from Faith or any obedience from them.

They are being Justified while nothing is in them but ungodliness and enmity against God , even as they are reconciled to God while being enemies, by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10, now if we are not Justified before God before we act obedience of Faith or Repentance, then we were not Justified as being Ungodly, but as Godly and Obedience, which would contradict Rom 4:5, where its plainly stated that God Justified the Ungodly ! 9
 
Rom 3:24 says it all !

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

This verse actually teaches the Gospel of God's Grace, and it speaks of Justification before God simply premised on Grace , because of or for the sake of the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus, meaning His Death, His Tasting Death by the Grace of God Heb 2:9, each man He tasted death for , they are freely Justified thereby, and this Justification is apart from any Gospel obedience of their own, be it faith obedience, or repentance obedience, for if it had anything to do with any act of their own, then it was not freely done by God.

That word freely is the greek word dórean and means:

as a free gift, without payment, freely, something freely done (as gratis), i.e. without "cause"; unearned (undeserved); freely given (without cost) hence not done out of mere obligation or compulsion.

See Faith and Repentance are obligations, God commands Repentance Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Commanding means its an obligation, its a compulsion to be adhered to, complied with !

So If God Justified any based upon a compliance to His Command, then it was not done freely by His Grace as stated in the text Rom 3:24, simple as that !
 
Rom 3:24 says it all !2

This Justification in Rom 3:24 God does bestow or impute or charge to, or reckon to, all for whom Christ died, and this without any demand whatsover on their persons, but solely on the Gift Imputed through the Work of Christ, or the Redemption that is in Him Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon[By Imputation or Reckoning] all men unto justification of life.

Also Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

This being made Righteous is by imputation of what Christ has done, its charged to the Elect's Sinner Account, and God reckons him or her, because of or through Christ, as if they had done everything that the Law of God requires, so in actuality they are these Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Thats because that Obedience that Christ rendered to God's Law, all that was required of the Law of God Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


This has been charged to everyone Christ died for, as a Free Gift, even while they are unbelievers and enemies ! Thats because its all of Grace they have been freely Justified ! 9
 
Justification of Life !

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Even so by the Righteousness OF ONE NOT TWO, BUT ONE, the Free Gift CAME UPON, not made available, not offered to, BUT CAME UPON all men to JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE !

Now we know the false teaching tell us that this means all men without exception have Justification of Life, but that's a lie, the verse does not say that and surely cannot begin to mean that, those who believe that are willfully ignorant to what Justification of Life means, and what is meant by it coming upon all for whom it did come upon !

First the words came upon are not in the original but are translated from the preposition eis which means:

eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.

It denotes a result, that being the result of either, as in the case of the one offence of Adam the result being " judgment came upon all men to condemnation"

Folk that was the result and purpose of God in effect, and it had nothing to do with the all men to whom Judgment and Condemnation came upon doing anything, or not doing anything, their individual acts or non acts are irrelevant !

Now with the same line of reasoning Justification of Life came upon all men as a result of The Righteousness of ONE Jesus Christ, and it likewise had nothing to do with the all men to whom Justification came upon, their individual acts or non acts are not relevant to the result !

Now the result of the former , that is what came upon them was Judgment to condemnation :

And the result of the Latter, that is what came upon them was Justification of Life, which means:

acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

the act of pronouncing righteous, acquittal


And this acquittal, pronouncing Righteous brings with it an added benefit which is Life !

Now, for Rom 5:18 to be taught as meaning all men without exception have come upon them Justification of Life, by the One Act of Righteousness of Jesus Christ is to say all men without exception are before God acquitted of all guilt and pronounced by Him as Righteous !

And we know that is not True because that would lead to the false teaching of Universalism and it would deny the fact that scripture teaches that some men are condemned already Jn 3:18 and are under God's Wrath Jn 3:36 with the promise of not seeing Life ! Which contradicts having had Justification of Life come upon them as those in Rom 5:18 did because of the Righteousness of One !
 
Justification of Life ! 2

This Justification of Life through the Lord Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Divine Promise to Israel, God's Elect Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

The all men that Justification of Life came upon in Rom 5:18 are the All Men that constitute all the Seed of Israel [Christ] the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

There can be no Justification of Life unto anyone apart from the Divine Promise of Isa 45:25, if it is, its outside of the Lord Jesus Christ and therefore worthless !

Some may argue and say that Isa 45:25 is speaking only of ethnic jews, but its not, its speaking of both ethnic jews and ethnic Gentiles who are the Israel of God. See the Mystery has always been that elect Gentiles are also Israel, an Israel that has nothing to do with ethnicity ! It only had to be that they all belonged to a certain Seed , and not a physical seed ! 9
 
More on Rom 4:5 Ungodly Justified !

Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Folks we do not believe in Justification by Faith unless we understand that we were Justified first by God while in a ungodly and faithless state !

The statement "him that justifieth the ungodly" is true only if He does Justify them while being Ungodly, being ungodly as in the present tense, while presently being in a state of Ungodliness. The scripture proves that God's Elect, those Christ died for Rom 8:33-34, that while in an active state of ungodliness, that at the same time they were in a state of passive Justification of Life Rom 5:18b

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The reason for this is because all for whom He died, has had a Robe of Righteousness imputed to them, For God hath made Him be unto them 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

And again, this while we are being in ourselves ungodly and enemies Rom 5:10, and such scripture as these establish the fact that God's Elect whom Christ died are Justified before God prior, anterior to Faith !
 
More on Rom 4:5 Ungodly Justified !

If Justified before Faith, we are [if Christ died for us] Justified before our existence ! Now if scripture gives evidence of God's Elect being Justified before God before their Faith and even while being ungodly, being premised solely on the imputed righteousness of their Surety, then its very plausible, as a consequence of that same Imputed Righteousness that the Elect are Justified in the Sight of God before their actual [in time] existence, lest we conclude that the Surety Righteousness of Christ did not have that type of Merit and Excellence and transcendence in and of itself to Justify, but that it did need ones act of Faith to give it that Virtue ! 9
 
Justifieth Unbelievers !

Many in false organized religion, or even unorganized religion, people who claim to be Christian, but are not really, never believing the Gospel, many of them will say that God does not save unbelievers, but that is a bold face lie, where is the scripture that states that ? If that were true, then all men would be lost and without hope, because all men by nature are lost and imprisoned in unbelief Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

All are by nature lost in the sphere of unbelief !

But yet Thanks be to God, that He does save / Justify unbelievers, ungodly people Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now the object of Faith here is God who is justifying the UNGODLY, and as such, they are unbelievers, and God who Justifies them as such, as ungodly, then unbelievers, that is before faith antecedently to the act of believing, which act is an evidence of their already Justification in Christ, for He rose and was Justified on their account Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[on account of] our offences, and was raised again for[on account of] our justification.

Simply meaning, if those on whose account He died for were not thereby Justified before God's Law and Justice before Him, then He would not have been risen from the dead ! And all believers that He died for are first unbelievers , so they were Justified while being unbelievers, the Resurrection proves it ! 10
 
Back
Top