Universities Offer Blasphemous “Queer Bible” Courses

B-A-C · Friday at 5:01 PM

Bill said:
Does believing Mary is Jesus mother give us salvation, no. For myself, reading about Marys faith is an insparation to bring me closer to Jesus.

Does talking with those who have passed on, Peter, Paul, my parents. All i know who are in heaven, give me salvation. No. Anyone who dies that has Jesus living in thier hearts, are not dead but alive. I do not talk with the dead, i talk to the living.

Does belief of the pope as leader of my church give me salvation, no.

Does receiving the Eucharist give me salvation, yes.

I tend to be a little more Arminian than most on here. I think that is pretty well known by now.
I believe in Salvation by grace. But I believe Salvation must be maintained. It takes effort on our part.
For example, I can't do anything to get saved. But there are a lot of things I can do to get unsaved.
(making that statement inevitably turns every thread into an OSAS thread)
Let me rephrase that a little. I can't be righteous righteous enough to earn my salvation, but I can be unrighteousness enough to lose it.

It's much the same with theology and belief.
If you asked a Mormon or Jehovah's witness if they believe in Jesus, they would say yes.
It's my understanding that even Muslims believe Jesus was a real person and a prophet.

Now while they might believe some of the same things I believe. They also believe enough different things than I do
not consider them to be saved. Mormons believe that Jesus wasn't always God but became "a" god. You can become a god too.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the Trinity or Divinity of Jesus. To me.. both beliefs are enough to keep you out of heaven.

So where do we draw the line.. how far off base are we allowed to be? Even you seem to agree there is a line.
Unless someone believes in transubstantiation, they aren't saved according to you. That would be heresy and blasphemy to me.
Is Mary the mother of Jesus, absolutely, was she a virgin when He was born, absolutely. Was she the mother of God, no.
His divinity had nothing to do with Mary, she had to do with the human part of Jesus, not the divine part. Jesus existed as God
long before Mary was born. But He did not exist as a human before then.

We can keep going on these things... you say I'm wrong, I say you're wrong... OK.
But obviously one of us is wrong. Wrong enough to keep us out of heaven.

You say we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses say the same thing.
But are we? According to you, I don't meet the requirement to be saved. So then, how can I be your brother in Christ?

I dare say.. the vast majority of people who frequent this site don't meet your requirement to be saved.
Are they your brothers and sisters in Christ?

Bill · Friday at 5:10 PM

Christ4Ever said:
Here is but one issue which will show the last sentence above to be true or not. I start it with a question in two parts. Could you walk away from the RCC, and one still be saved, two still be faithful to Christ Jesus?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Can a person walk away from the Catholic church and be saved. Yes
And still be faithful to Jesus Christ. Yes

There is definitely a lot of depth to the Catholic Church. But I've told this to people for years that a person doesn't need to be Catholic to be saved.

I know my priest friends sometimes struggle with me when I talk to them about different things. But all I have to do is look around and see the Miracles that are taking place in other churches. There's no denying in the Miracles. You have those movies that are out there the girl that fell in the tree. And then there's a boy that died during an operation and came back from heaven. There's just too much too much proof. And it's not like I needed to have that particular proof to prove to me that God works outside the Catholic Church.

I think it is folly for any one particular denomination or one group of people or even one person to feel that they are it. That they got all the answers. And they got God's ear.

The scripture tells us that we are all parts of the same body. And we need to really remember that. It doesn't matter so much the denominations, but I know that there's goodness in that having them. Let us think of it this way if everybody thought the same way how would we delve deeper into learning about God and the Holy Spirit and Jesus. Who would be out there to challenge us to think about our own faith.

I know that there are some Christian churches that have a thing for Saturday services. And there are others that have a thing for Sunday services. It's unnecessary to argue what is best. Because it doesn't matter if a person goes to a service on a Saturday or Sunday so long as you take one day out of the week and make it Holy for God.

There are some Churches that do not believe in drinking alcohol at all. And there are other churches that feel it's okay to imbibe. Whether you drink or not isn't going to save you. We have to understand that people think differently, not everyone is cut of the same cloth.

It is the core belief that must stand out. And it is these things that we need to see in churches or in groups of people or an individuals who want to claim to be Christians. It's these things that we need to have to be Christian

Sorry for the long response, but I hope I answered your question

B-A-C · Friday at 5:16 PM

Bill said:
The scripture tells us that we are all parts of the same body.

Does it?

2Cor 6:14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Cor 6:15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
2Cor 6:16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
2Cor 6:17 "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.

2Cor 11:4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this willingly.
Gal 1:7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
2Jn 1:11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Bill · Friday at 5:27 PM

B-A-C said:
Does it?

2Cor 6:14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Cor 6:15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
2Cor 6:16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
2Cor 6:17 "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.

2Cor 11:4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this willingly.
Gal 1:7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;
2Jn 1:11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

So what church that follows the core beliefs is any of those?

If a church follows the core beliefs. Then we are all Christians and all parts of the same body

Bill · Friday at 5:42 PM

B-A-C said:
I tend to be a little more Arminian than most on here. I think that is pretty well known by now.
I believe in Salvation by grace. But I believe Salvation must be maintained. It takes effort on our part.
For example, I can't do anything to get saved. But there are a lot of things I can do to get unsaved.
(making that statement inevitably turns every thread into an OSAS thread)
Let me rephrase that a little. I can't be righteous righteous enough to earn my salvation, but I can be unrighteousness enough to lose it.

It's much the same with theology and belief.
If you asked a Mormon or Jehovah's witness if they believe in Jesus, they would say yes.
It's my understanding that even Muslims believe Jesus was a real person and a prophet.

Now while they might believe some of the same things I believe. They also believe enough different things than I do
not consider them to be saved. Mormons believe that Jesus wasn't always God but became "a" god. You can become a god too.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the Trinity or Divinity of Jesus. To me.. both beliefs are enough to keep you out of heaven.

So where do we draw the line.. how far off base are we allowed to be? Even you seem to agree there is a line.
Unless someone believes in transubstantiation, they aren't saved according to you. That would be heresy and blasphemy to me.
Is Mary the mother of Jesus, absolutely, was she a virgin when He was born, absolutely. Was she the mother of God, no.
His divinity had nothing to do with Mary, she had to do with the human part of Jesus, not the divine part. Jesus existed as God
long before Mary was born. But He did not exist as a human before then.

We can keep going on these things... you say I'm wrong, I say you're wrong... OK.
But obviously one of us is wrong. Wrong enough to keep us out of heaven.

You say we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses say the same thing.
But are we? According to you, I don't meet the requirement to be saved. So then, how can I be your brother in Christ?

I dare say.. the vast majority of people who frequent this site don't meet your requirement to be saved.
Are they your brothers and sisters in Christ?

Where do we draw the line?
Its a good question, but we must not judge. Because that all belongs to God and not us.

The Jehovah Witnesses do not believe in the Divinity of Jesus. Neither do the Jews. And yet we look at Enoch and Elijah and Moses. And yet with all three of them we know that they are in heaven.

We cannot use the excuse, that Jesus wasn't there for Moses or Elijah or Enoch. Because if we believe that Jesus is God, then what part of God is not God?

So there must be something more than just knowing who Jesus is and accepting him as our Lord in our heads. What I've tried to say over the years is that it's all about the heart. If you love God with your heart you're already loving Jesus with your heart. Even if you don't recognize Jesus that's beside the point. The point is is that you're loving God.

Now whether or not the Jehovah Witnesses or the Mormons or the Muslims love God that's not for me to figure out. But it doesn't mean I can't preach to them and talk to them about the love of Jesus.

I know that everyone here is stuck on faith alone. But it doesn't make any sense with the scripture. Paul himself says the faith alone is like a Gong clanging in the Wind. So there's something that has to take place something more than just faith alone.

And as I have told you before. It's faith alone that brings us to our Salvation. And that's what the scripture says. And what is our salvation? Our Salvation is Jesus. So we have to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior and when you do that you receive love because what is Jesus? Jesus is Love, Jesus is God

The scripture says it's our faith that brings us to our Salvation. Jesus tells us that you have to receive him to be with the Father in Heaven. "no one can go to the Father but through Me"

Going through Jesus is not the same as knowing who he is. Going through Jesus means receiving him to your heart. This is why the demons are not going to heaven, because they know who Jesus is but they have not received Him.

Curtis · Friday at 6:20 PM

Bill said:
It is the same as anyone else who accepts Jesus as Lord. The Eucharist is Jesus.

There is nothing wrong or bad about taking communion or doing any other good work for the Kingdom of God. The danger is in believing that doing such things gives eternal life. Taking communion or doing any kind of "work" can never give life. There is only "one work" that gives eternal life, and Jesus tells us what that "work" is.

Jesus said.....

Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The only work that gives eternal life is having "faith in Jesus Christ"

We must never think that the things we do is giving us eternal life.

Kermos · Saturday at 8:23 AM

Bill said:
It is the same as anyone else who accepts Jesus as Lord. The Eucharist is Jesus. "This is my body" "this is my blood". What does Paul say about recieving Jesus.

When we recieve Jesus, your heart must be open to recieving Him.

It doesn't matter whether you recieve Jesus as the blessed Bread and Wine, or receive Jesus in the reading of the word. To truly receive Jesus your heart must be open to receiving Him.

When the sower planted the seeds on Rocky ground they did not take root. So it is with the Muslims or anyone else that has a closed heart to Jesus. It doesn't matter if you're at a Christian Gathering or not. What matters is, is if your heart is open to receiving Jesus.

If you look at the scripture, see how the Pharisees were with Jesus. They knew Jesus as the person they didn't accept Him and they weren't going to accept Him. Not all of them of course as we had Nicodemus and there were others that stayed silent. But the majority of the Pharisees, their hearts were closed to receiving Jesus even though he was in their midst.

Hello again, Bill,

The explicit state of "who rejects Jesus" is applied to the "muslim" in the question; therefore, the muslim is an unbeliever. Please answer the question with the conditions intact.

Does receiving the Eucharist give a muslim who rejects Jesus salvation?

Your word "me" within your preaching of "Does receiving the Eucharist give me salvation, yes." was replaced by the clause "a muslim who rejects Jesus", so your Roman Catholic Church instruction can be tested for Saint John tells me "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

Love,
Kermos

Christ4Ever · Saturday at 10:40 AM

Kermos said:
Hello again, Bill,

The explicit state of "who rejects Jesus" is applied to the "muslim" in the question; therefore, the muslim is an unbeliever. Please answer the question with the conditions intact.

Does receiving the Eucharist give a muslim who rejects Jesus salvation?

Your word "me" within your preaching of "Does receiving the Eucharist give me salvation, yes." was replaced by the clause "a muslim who rejects Jesus", so your Roman Catholic Church instruction can be tested for Saint John tells me "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

Love,
Kermos

I hope that Brother Bill would say no. For scripture tells us so.

In the same manner [He] also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink [it], in remembrance of Me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks [this] cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 1 Corinthians 11:25-29 NKJV

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

B-A-C · Saturday at 11:00 AM

Kermos said:
Does receiving the Eucharist give a muslim who rejects Jesus salvation?

Not only that.. but do they have to believe in transubstantiation?
The wine literally becomes the blood of Jesus, and the bread literally becomes Jesus's flesh.

Kermos · Sunday at 8:13 AM

Curtis said:
There is nothing wrong or bad about taking communion or doing any other good work for the Kingdom of God. The danger is in believing that doing such things gives eternal life. Taking communion or doing any kind of "work" can never give life. There is only "one work" that gives eternal life, and Jesus tells us what that "work" is.

Jesus said.....

Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The only work that gives eternal life is having "faith in Jesus Christ"

We must never think that the things we do is giving us eternal life.

Hello Curtis,

You wrote "The only work that gives eternal life is having "faith in Jesus Christ" We must never think that the things we do is giving us eternal life." which is true.

@Bill believes that you "do" eat the Roman Catholic Church Eucharist to obtain salvation.

You believe that you "do" free-will choose Jesus to obtain salvation.

Curtis, you quoted “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and this Word of God means that every person believing in the Son whom the Father has sent is the doing of God.

Lord Jesus says that we Christians are delivered from the wrath of God by God's grace for God's glory in this as well “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

The Lord is my salvation!

Love,
Kermos

Dylan569 · Sunday at 10:18 AM

Christ4Ever said:
Professor Rhiannon Graybill, who specializes in “queer biblical interpretation,” is a key figure in a growing movement to reshape Scripture to the homosexual agenda. In her course, Queer Bible, students are taught to explore topics like “queer pleasure in the Bible.;” They are also encouraged to question long-established biblical teachings on sexuality and gender.

Professor Graybill distorts scripture and twists stories until they fit her sexually perverted interpretation. In one example, Graybill discusses the story where the prophet Elisha revives a boy by laying on his dead body. She suggests that the text could be read as a sexualized encounter between Elisha and the child, turning Elisha into a pedophile and making pedophilia biblically approved.

Unfortunately, this isn’t isolated to one college. Wellesley College offers its own version of a “Queer Bible” course, where students are encouraged to explore biblical stories through the lens of queer theory. Meanwhile, the University of Central Florida has started “Queer Christian Fellowship” groups, for the purpose of facilitating “discussion groups around the topic ‘Queer Interpretation of Scripture.’”

Catholic Universities Toss Tradition for LGBTQ+ Ideology

The Catholic University of Portland is also shifting its focus away from traditional biblical teachings. In alignment with recent statements made by the Pope, the school has begun to emphasize inclusion and the acceptance of LGBTQ+ ideology.

Students can now swap an introductory Bible course for a new option: Queer Theologies. This course obliterates biblical teachings on marriage, sexuality, and gender. According to the course description, students are encouraged to use queer theologies to reinterpret scripture, affirm same-sex relationships, and challenge traditional Christian teachings.

Other courses include God Our Mother and Intercultural Feminist Theology, both of which replace the truth of scripture with LGBTQ+ agenda.

Twisted Scripture Fits LGBTQ+ Agenda

America was once a nation grounded in biblical truth. For generations, the KJV Bible provided the moral and ethical foundation. But thanks to the endless “versions” of scripture and translations which call God’s words into question, the once unshakable standard of truth is now subject to the shifting whims of society.

When the Bible is stripped of its authority and made subject to personal or cultural interpretation, the door is opened to manipulation. A Bible you can’t trust is a Bible that can be twisted to say anything and justify any agenda. This is exactly what’s happening with the rise of queer theology. “Professors” are twisting Scripture to agree with their perverted values, regardless of its true meaning.

God’s Word is Unchanging

Queer theology is a direct attack on the authority of the Bible, but the Word of God is clear and unchanging. God created man and woman, and ordained marriage to be between one man and one woman. Anything outside of this divine institution is sin. The King James bible is steadfast on this truth. We at Chick Publications will continue to promote the truth of scripture and the infallible Word of God as preserved in the King James Bible.

Source: Battle Cry July/Aug 2025

Christ4Ever, going back to your OP, I agree completely that a “Queer Bible” course is blasphemous and I see no way that a person professing to be Christian could be truly regenerate could teach such things. But I wish to comment on a couple of the statements made in this OP, which I understand you quoted from another source.

“For generations, the KJV Bible provided the moral and ethical foundation”. I believe strongly that God for centuries blessed the KJV as THE translation for the English-speaking world. The ERV and ASV continue that faithfulness to God’s message. Once the NCC published the RSV, I do not trust any modern translation, conservative or literal, to the degree I will trust the KJV. In the past you and I have had discussion about the modern topic of “homosexuality”, and in a Christian spirit disagreed on it. For a person studying M-M relationships because of family or intimate church circumstances, I believe they are better off to trust the KJV while using the 1828 Webster’s English Dictionary with it.

The second statement I wish to comment on is: “God created man and woman, and ordained marriage to be between one man and one woman. Anything outside this divine institution is sin.”

Regarding this second statement:
1st, not all M-M relationships desire the legal entanglements of marriage and prefer a faithful promise with personal protections by legal documents.

2nd, not all M-M relationships are of the “gay” kind, or the LGBTQ perversions.

3rd, the conclusion drawn in the statement is a theological construction that cannot be supported by the following two statements:

“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” (Isa 8:20, KJV)

“And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” (1Cor 4:6, KJV)
or as revised in the ASV
“Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not to go beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.” (1Cor 4:6, ASV)

For Christians who study the modern hot-button issues of homosexuality and abortion, if a revision of the KJV is sought, go no more modern than the ERV or ASV. The Young’s Literal Translation is also safe on these topics. Even though I also use and study with modern translations such as the NEB, REB, NRSV & NRSVue, I reject their translations of 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 in particular.

Christ4Ever, I wish to close by remarking, I do not recall ever seeing any post or reply of yours written in a way inconsistent with Christian fellowship with love.

Curtis · Sunday at 4:14 PM

Kermos said:
Hello Curtis,

You wrote "The only work that gives eternal life is having "faith in Jesus Christ" We must never think that the things we do is giving us eternal life." which is true.

@Bill believes that you "do" eat the Roman Catholic Church Eucharist to obtain salvation.

You believe that you "do" free-will choose Jesus to obtain salvation.

Curtis, you quoted “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and this Word of God means that every person believing in the Son whom the Father has sent is the doing of God.

Lord Jesus says that we Christians are delivered from the wrath of God by God's grace for God's glory in this as well “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

The Lord is my salvation!

Love,
Kermos

Rom 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Curtis · Sunday at 4:17 PM

Kermos said:
You believe that you "do" free-will choose Jesus to obtain salvation.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

Bill · Sunday at 6:32 PM

Kermos said:
Hello again, Bill,

The explicit state of "who rejects Jesus" is applied to the "muslim" in the question; therefore, the muslim is an unbeliever. Please answer the question with the conditions intact.

Does receiving the Eucharist give a muslim who rejects Jesus salvation?

Your word "me" within your preaching of "Does receiving the Eucharist give me salvation, yes." was replaced by the clause "a muslim who rejects Jesus", so your Roman Catholic Church instruction can be tested for Saint John tells me "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

Love,
Kermos

When Jesus blessed the bread and the wine, referring to it, this is my body and this is my blood. He stated that if you received this in an unworthy manner you condemn yourself.

It's because of those that I stated earlier, for those who cannot accept that teaching that they too are able to receive Jesus in a Worthy fashion by way of receiving Jesus Through the scripture.

I would be careful to generalize a people saying they are unworthy of Heaven. Jesus condemned the Pharisees but he didn't condemn the whole Israeli population. And as you know not all of the Pharisees were bad like Nicodemus.

If we think about the Israelis for a minute, they never knew Jesus either. Yeah Enoch was taken by God and Elijah also gone to heaven in the fiery chariot. Abraham who never knew Jesus followed the ways of God that were laid out before him. And he's considered the father of the nation of Israel and the Muslims.

I think we could safely say that there are many Israelis who are in heaven.

So you have to ask yourself what is it that makes it possible for the Israelis (before Jesus walked the Earth as a human) to be able to enter Heaven if they never knew him.

God is eternal. And the Mandate that Jesus made is also an internal mandate. He didn't say when this started he just said, "no one can go to the father but through me".

This is why I often State here that there is more to Jesus than we understand. It isn't just knowing who he is in our heads that is important. It's knowing who God is in our heart.

What part of God is not God? If we believe that we must have Jesus in our heart, isn't Jesus God? If we don't believe that then maybe we're not Christians after all.

Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit are One. This is something that Jesus also stated. So when we look at the Jews of the Old Testament you have to understand that they fell in love with God and God was the center of their heart and that's why they are with God now.

Bill · Sunday at 6:41 PM

Kermos said:
Hello Curtis,

You wrote "The only work that gives eternal life is having "faith in Jesus Christ" We must never think that the things we do is giving us eternal life." which is true.

@Bill believes that you "do" eat the Roman Catholic Church Eucharist to obtain salvation.

You believe that you "do" free-will choose Jesus to obtain salvation.

Curtis, you quoted “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29), and this Word of God means that every person believing in the Son whom the Father has sent is the doing of God.

Lord Jesus says that we Christians are delivered from the wrath of God by God's grace for God's glory in this as well “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21).

The Lord is my salvation!

Love,
Kermos

I believe that I do receive the Eucharist because Jesus is present in the Eucharist. And this is a meal that he has offered me to continue receiving. But I can tell you that receive into Eucharist is just like receiving Jesus in your heart through the scripture, and you can still reject Christ and reject Heaven as well.

This is why it's important to continue reading the scripture and nurture the seeds that are within me continue growing them. It's also why it's important to continue reaching out to the new Christians. Why you cannot just go one time to a person and expect them to follow the scripture right off the bat. Just like anything you have to nurture it along. If you're going to grow a garden you have to take care of the garden, and tend to the weeds.

B-A-C · Sunday at 10:24 PM

Bill said:
If we think about the Israelis for a minute, they never knew Jesus either. Yeah Enoch was taken by God and Elijah also gone to heaven in the fiery chariot. Abraham who never knew Jesus followed the ways of God that were laid out before him. And he's considered the father of the nation of Israel and the Muslims.

You speak of people who didn't know about Jesus in the OT. Some would say there was different dispensation then.
They "were" saved by works. Circumcision, animals sacrifices, confession to priests, etc...
Others would say no one in the OT went to heaven,
they went to Abrahams bosom until Jesus led the captives free.

I would also add that neither Elijah nor Enoch ever died, not a physical death. So they don't really make a good example.
But that was then, this is now. Jesus did come, and He did die, and He did rise again. He was revealed as the Son of God.
Do you still think the salvation methods for the old testament still apply today?

Abraham (thru Ishmael) may be the father of the Arabs, but that doesn't mean they are saved.
Abraham was also the father of the Jews (thru Isaac) but that doesn't mean they are all saved either.

Luke 3:8 "Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father,' for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus *said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham.
John 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
John 8:41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God."
Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
John 8:43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

You say those people didn't believe in Jesus. It seems Moses and Elijah believe in Jesus now.
Yet, you believe people are saved by taking the Eucharist. Do you think Abraham, Moses Enoch andElijah took the Eucharist?
The implication here seems to be.. you are saying people don't need Jesus to be saved.

I say heresy and blasphemy.

Kermos · Monday at 7:34 AM

Curtis said:
Rom 4:4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

Hello Curtis,

Exactly, I do not direct my belief to point at Jesus because that would be a work of mine, but God does direct my belief to point at Jesus because this is the work of God for my Creator says “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

Love,
Kermos

Kermos · Monday at 7:39 AM

Curtis said:
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

Now, Curtis, the Deuteronomy 30:19 passage fails to say man has the free-will ability to choose God, so this is not a free-will to choose God proof text.

Love,
Kermos

Bill · Monday at 7:57 AM

B-A-C said:
You speak of people who didn't know about Jesus in the OT. Some would say there was different dispensation then.
They "were" saved by works. Circumcision, animals sacrifices, confession to priests, etc...
Others would say no one in the OT went to heaven,
they went to Abrahams bosom until Jesus led the captives free.

I would also add that neither Elijah nor Enoch ever died, not a physical death. So they don't really make a good example.
But that was then, this is now. Jesus did come, and He did die, and He did rise again. He was revealed as the Son of God.
Do you still think the salvation methods for the old testament still apply today?

Abraham (thru Ishmael) may be the father of the Arabs, but that doesn't mean they are saved.
Abraham was also the father of the Jews (thru Isaac) but that doesn't mean they are all saved either.

Luke 3:8 "Therefore bear fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father,' for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus *said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham.
John 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
John 8:41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God."
Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
John 8:43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

You say those people didn't believe in Jesus. It seems Moses and Elijah believe in Jesus now.
Yet, you believe people are saved by taking the Eucharist. Do you think Abraham, Moses Enoch andElijah took the Eucharist?
The implication here seems to be.. you are saying people don't need Jesus to be saved.

I say heresy and blasphemy.

You Are saved by taking the Eucharist, into your heart. In the same way you are saved by recieving the Word into your heart.

Because the Word (Scripture ) and rhe Eucharist are the same thing - Jesus.

The way you talk about the Israelites can be compared to the same way that you can talk about the Christians. If they don't take Christ into their heart what do they have? Nothing!!!

You have a gong clanging in the wind as Paul says.

Faith without Love is nothing

Curtis · Monday at 10:54 AM

Kermos said:
Now, Curtis, the Deuteronomy 30:19 passage fails to say man has the free-will ability to choose God, so this is not a free-will to choose God proof text.

Love,
Kermos

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

God has set before man "life" and "death"; these are the two choices God gives man with the freedom to choose either one.

2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Here are people perishing because they have refused to love the truth that they might be saved. Refusing to make a choice to love the truth and be saved. Man was given a free will to choose life or death.

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