Seethat said:

They came in doing that to a response that wasn't even to them, and their main point was that scripture is evil and wrong and you cannot trust Paul and they accused of denying Jesus before men because of it, I thought this was a Christian Forum but that is the most evil plashpeming i have ever seen on a supposed Christian site, is that all ok with you?

Click to expand...

No, it is not.
Twisting of one's words is common in this world, as it always has been since the Garden.
As a Christian you should not be getting used to it but accept that this is one of the battles you have to face, as a defender of the faith in which you believe no matter where you find yourself.

However, to state blasphemy, is a serious offense, and though it appears simple to say, it in truth is much more difficult to make stick when applying it to a given theological belief, when the site, which is Protestant, is not actually a religious denomination. So, even more consideration must be given.

You may be surprised, and even disgusted by this reply about blasphemy, but like I said, it is simply to say, and outside a specific denominational structure, much harder to prove.

You are welcome to Private Message me if you want to go further into this discussion, which is not, should not be something discussed on this thread of a different subject.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Your servant in Christ.
Nick
\o/
<><

Christ4Ever said:

No, it is not.
Twisting of one's words is common in this world, as it always has been since the Garden.
As a Christian you should not be getting used to it but accept that this is one of the battles you have to face, as a defender of the faith in which you believe no matter where you find yourself.

However, to state blasphemy, is a serious offense, and though it appears simple to say, it in truth is much more difficult to make stick when applying it to a given theological belief, when the site, which is Protestant, is not actually a religious denomination. So, even more consideration must be given.

You may be surprised, and even disgusted by this reply about blasphemy, but like I said, it is simply to say, and outside a specific denominational structure, much harder to prove.

You are welcome to Private Message me if you want to go further into this discussion, which is not, should not be something discussed on this thread of a different subject.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Your servant in Christ.
Nick
\o/
<><

Click to expand...

If you deny Scripture as a lie that is about as serious as it gets and that is what they are doing. If you deny the New Testament teachings you cannot be considered part of the church. It is what it is, but by allowing this you will drive away real Christians because they are not to be a part of that, by harbouring false teachers you are forcing real christians to shake the dust off their feet But i think you know that, You cannot embrace everything in the name of Love

How can someone be saved if they do not believe God's Word? What would you consider blasphemy? Ill stick with calling Gods Word a lie or God a liar as blasphemy and you do what you gotta do

Seethat said:

If you deny Scripture as a lie that is about as serious as it gets and that is what they are doing. If you deny the New Testament teachings you cannot be considered part of the church. It is what it is, but by allowing this you will drive away real Christians because they are not to be a part of that, by harbouring false teachers you are forcing real christians to shake the dust off their feet But i think you know that, You cannot embrace everything in the name of Love

How can someone be saved if they do not believe God's Word? What would you consider blasphemy? Ill stick with calling Gods Word a lie or God a liar as blasphemy and you do what you gotta do

Click to expand...

Again, I suggest a Private Message. I am willing to copy what you have said here, and generate a PM to you to give you an answer to what you have posed here or I can also create a thread and move the above so that it will be the first on this subject so that others may add their words for consideration as well. The choice is yours.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Christ4Ever said:

Again, I suggest a Private Message. I am willing to copy what you have said here, and generate a PM to you to give you an answer to what you have posed here or I can also create a thread and move the above so that it will be the first on this subject so that others may add their words for consideration as well. The choice is yours.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Click to expand...

You can Private message if you want to discuss anything but I don't have anything I would want concealed as that is the main problem here.... this thread is about Paul been an apostle, and that is the point I am defending, and if people are implying you cannot trust paul or scripture or accusing you before God and that is allowed then I should be able to respond and not be silenced, You should delete these posts and ban these people that deny the new testament and deny Pauls teachings for the church including the Gospel to be saved to protect real Christians instead of Giving false accusers a platform to get away with it.... without bias. Either let me have my say on the topic or fairly ban or delete as you feel fair

Seethat said:

You can Private message if you want to discuss anything but I don't have anything I would want concealed as that is the main problem here.... this thread is about Paul been an apostle, and that is the point I am defending, and if people are implying you cannot trust paul or scripture or accusing you before God and that is allowed then I should be able to respond and not be silenced, You should delete these posts and ban these people that deny the new testament and deny Pauls teachings for the church including the Gospel to be saved to protect real Christians instead of Giving false accusers a platform to get away with it.... without bias. Either let me have my say on the topic or fairly ban or delete as you feel fair

Click to expand...

In that case I believe you have chosen without saying, the one for moving the post to a new thread.
As far as deleting/banning we shall see how it goes.
Give me a few minutes and you should be notified of the postings being moved, and where they are located. So, don't answer this one for it shall be moved as well.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Christ4Ever said:

In that case I believe you have chosen without saying, the one for moving the post to a new thread.
As far as deleting/banning we shall see how it goes.
Give me a few minutes and you should be notified of the postings being moved, and where they are located. So, don't answer this one for it shall be moved as well.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Click to expand...

Strange response but look forward to hearing from you

What is this you have set up? a Moderator debate? just checking is this private or public? but it doesn't bother me so where do we start with this mess lol ill have a read and respond soon

This is a public forum called "Bible Answers", and anyone can join in.

As in all things, the best start is to define what is meant by Blasphemy.
You are welcome to define it and state your case.


With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Christ4Ever said:

This is a public forum called "Bible Answers", and anyone can join in.

As in all things, the best start is to define what is meant by Blasphemy.
You are welcome to define it and state your case.


With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Click to expand...

It would have to start with what you consider what it means to blaspheme?

Dictionary says
blasphemy
/ˈblasfəmi,ˈblɑːsfəmi/


noun
noun: blasphemy; plural noun: blasphemies

1. the action or offence of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk
2. something disrespectful or evil about God
   
   
   
   Pretty simple really, isn't it? So my point, calling Gods word, or God a liar would be to blaspheme? I don't see what your problem is

Seethat said:

Pretty simple really, isn't it? So my point, calling Gods word, or God a liar would be to blaspheme? I don't see what your problem is

Click to expand...

On face value it appears simple, but in truth it is not that simple. You'll see what I mean in time

You now have to define what is God's Word, and does everyone agree that you are in a discussion with that it is so?

I hope you understand I am not trying to make light of what you are saying or to shut you down, for saying what you believe to be true. What I am trying to show you is that it is not so easy to not just prove, but when having a discussion there are instances where one may say something that another may or will construe as being blasphemous when it is not because they are seeing the subject matter differently.

Try this on for size. How many books are in the Bible, and can it be supported against what others believe they are? lol

This is just a start, and we haven't even gotten to the Blasphemy part!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Christ4Ever said:

As a Christian you should not be getting used to it but accept that this is one of the battles you have to face, as a defender of the faith in which you believe no matter where you find yourself.

Click to expand...

I for one strongly disagree. You shouldn't have to do this in a correctly moderated forum.

We don't have to agree with each other. But there does have to be at least some rules.
I have several friends who longer visit this wesite (I do so less and less myself)
simply because of terrible moderation.

B-A-C said:

I for one strongly disagree. You shouldn't have to do this in a correctly moderated forum.

We don't have to agree with each other. But there does have to be at least some rules.
I have several friends who longer visit this wesite (I do so less and less myself)
simply because of terrible moderation.

Click to expand...

Agree.
Yet, the existing rules, really have more to do with being civil vs theological beliefs/discussions oversight. Leaving it to staff to make any decisions they deem necessary.

It is sad that TJ, has fallen on being visited and used less and less as time has passed. I too miss many who have left and not returned. Still, knowing that in truth its not good-bye, but see your later, is no small comfort; at least to me. On the why, well, the reasons I see are varied, but exist they do, and I see little hope that it will change.

To be honest, the little moderation you see now, will diminish to very little once the Lord calls me home. What has happened to everyone else, I can't say, but maybe Brother Chad will find others, or even close it completely. I do not know, and plug along as a good soldier, or a barely competent one. (sigh)

Like the world, this tool, and what I used to call an Oasis for believers on the Internet (no more), has darkened like the world has. You can remember far enough back when it was different, as do I, but then we also had a different breed of believers that have moved on and have never been replaced in kind.

You have always been a stalwart to me brother. Though we haven't always agreed about the Salvation by Grace/Works. lol
Ah, if only others could learn to agree to disagree, and still show each other the love of Christ! (Heavy sigh)

Well, enough of that.
Let us see how our brother deals with the rabbit hole that is blasphemy...

With the Love of Christ Jesus dear brother.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Christ4Ever said:

On face value it appears simple, but in truth it is not that simple. You'll see what I mean in time

You now have to define what is God's Word, and does everyone agree that you are in a discussion with that it is so?

I hope you understand I am not trying to make light of what you are saying or to shut you down, for saying what you believe to be true. What I am trying to show you is that it is not so easy to not just prove, but when having a discussion there are instances where one may say something that another may or will construe as being blasphemous when it is not because they are seeing the subject matter differently.

Try this on for size. How many books are in the Bible, and can it be supported against what others believe they are? lol

This is just a start, and we haven't even gotten to the Blasphemy part!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Click to expand...

Jesus is the Word of God... it is his title. Christianity is based on Jesus so we learn about Jesus from the bible. If you do not put your trust in Jesus who is the Word of God you cannot be saved, The discussion isn't defending every word in the bible it is who do you say Jesus is? and if you get that wrong, blasphemy is irrelevant because you will die in your sins.

you have to add context and the context was "Jesus Chose Paul as his chosen vessel after he returned to heaven", The point you are defending is the person came in saying the Scripture i quoted was a lie (and it was a copy and paste of scripture), Paul lied and what paul said had nothing to do with Jesus, You are straight up calling scripture a lie and What Jesus said as a lie your only defence is you cannot trust the bible and that was what was their argument was, So if Scripure says Jesus Chose Paul and you are defending its not blasphemy to say Scripture is wrong, Jesus didnt say that, and the scripture is evil....What would you call that? or at least does it fit the dictionary description I gave as you didnt define your terms of what you consider blasphemy

Seethat said:

Jesus is the Word of God... it is his title. Christianity is based on Jesus so we learn about Jesus from the bible. If you do not put your trust in Jesus who is the Word of God you cannot be saved, The discussion isn't defending every word in the bible it is who do you say Jesus is? and if you get that wrong, blasphemy is irrelevant because you will die in your sins.

you have to add context and the context was "Jesus Chose Paul as his chosen vessel after he returned to heaven", The point you are defending is the person came in saying the Scripture i quoted was a lie, Paul lied and what paul said nothing to do with Jesus, You are straight up calling scripture a lie and What Jesus said as a lie your only defence is you cannot trust the bible and that was what was their argument was, So if Scripure says Jesus Chose Paul and you are defending its not blasphemy to say Scripture is wrong Jesus didnt say that and the scripture is evil....What would you call that? or at least does it fit the dictionary description I gave as you didnt define your terms of what you consider blasphemy

Click to expand...

I agree with what you are saying. However, when you are having a theological discussion with another, and must support the position you have presented when it is questioned by a version that is unbiblical, then you must discern/decide what the proper response is to be, so as to shed light upon the error being presented. Which means refute it!

They may never recant, because such rarely do, but those who read your words will know, and see the very lies of the adversary being spoken and the truth in the Spirit behind your own. It is sad to say, but there are no safe spaces in this world as a believer.

Still, you have hit the nail on the head with this question: Who do you say Jesus is?

With the Love of Christ Jesus, my Savior, Son of God, 2nd Person of the Trinity.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Christ4Ever said:

I agree with what you are saying. However, when you are having a theological discussion with another, and must support the position you have presented when it is questioned by a version that is unbiblical, then you must discern/decide what the proper response is to be, so as to shed light upon the error being presented. Which means refute it!

They may never recant, because such rarely do, but those who read your words will know, and see the very lies of the adversary being spoken and the truth in the Spirit behind your own. It is sad to say, but there are no safe spaces in this world as a believer.

Still, you have hit the nail on the head with this question: Who do you say Jesus is?

With the Love of Christ Jesus, my Savior, Son of God, 2nd Person of the Trinity.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Click to expand...

King James Bible
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

New King James Version
But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.

American Standard Version
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles and kings, and the children of Israel:

Berean Study Bible
“Go!” said the Lord. “This man is My chosen instrument to carry My name before the Gentiles and their kings, and before the people of Israel.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord said to him: Go thy way; for this man is to me a vessel of election, to carry my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel.

English Revised Version
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles and kings, and the children of Israel:

World English Bible
But the Lord said to him, "Go your way, for he is my chosen vessel to bear my name before the nations and kings, and the children of Israel.

Young's Literal Translation
And the Lord said unto him, 'Be going on, because a choice vessel to Me is this one, to bear My name before nations and kings -- the sons also of Israel;

The context was, did Jesus choose Paul or is scripture lying, It is not a translation argument

When the discussion is ignore Jesus, and Paul had nothing to do with Jesus, and the Bible has errors....that can only be from a devil. And then they can accuse you to God of denying Jesus before men so God will deny you because you believe Paul. It all got a pass from you, it is very biased but there is no foundation to discuss anything because they do not believe the Bible or the Gospel or what Jesus says. They are here to deny it, they can accuse to God and it's fine by you. It's supposed to be your job to contend for the faith, not protect unbelievers and let them accuse the church. At what point, as a mod, are you accountable for letting them accuse like that and leaving it up? You actually try to stop me being able to respond and your offer to me is I can be nice to them and answer you many things. You are playing a dangerous game in the name of Love while allowing blasphemy while redefining what blasphemy is. Your goal for this thread was similar to theirs, to discredit scripture by how we can interpret it, but no Scripture is open to private interpretation, and the topic is about as clear as you can be, there is no middle ground. You believe Jesus and Gods Promises or you do not.

So God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to Pauls gospel. And someone is saying Jesus and Paul lied and believing his Gospel means you have denied Jesus and God will deny you, is straight up antichrist, and you allow this. You will force Christians to shake the dust off their feet and move on and what then? What will you be left with.... you can see it by the amount of heresy being posted on this site and you can see with what you try do with the truth. The church is supposed to be shepherded and protected, not let Gospel denying unbelievers accuse them while telling them they have to be nice and answer you many questions. Jesus is the truth, it is one of his titles, if you are ok with calling Jesus a liar that's not ok with me and that is the whole point of this discussion

Seethat said:

They came in doing that to a response that wasn't even to them,

Click to expand...

(Them? Them whom?)

Well it would have been nice to be invited to the party instead of y'all talking behind my back.

But public posts are allowed to be answered and addressed by any member. Now just because you don't like the post.....

Seethat said:

their main point was that scripture is evil and wrong

Click to expand...

And who might "they" be? Moi?

MY point was that the King James TRANSLATION of 2 Tim. 3:16 is evil. I never said that scripture is evil and wrong. If I believed that why do I quote it so often? And why would I learn the Koine Greek language so I can read the text AS IT WAS actually written?

Your generalizations and characterization are so far out of the ball park, it's like watching curling up in Canada.

Seethat said:

and you cannot trust Paul and they accused of denying Jesus before men because of it,

Click to expand...

Where Paul preaches the same Gospel taught by the Son of God, Jesus Christ, then YES, TRUST IT.

I trust this proclamation by Paul implicitly and without question:

- Acts 13:38 KJV

So please don't misrepresent me. (That's evil to do so.)

Seethat said:

Paul and they accused of denying Jesus before men because of it,

Click to expand...

But you did (even if you didn't mean to), and I'll let my other posts stand as written, for the reasons I gave there.

Seethat said:

I thought this was a Christian Forum but that is the most evil plashpeming i have ever seen on a supposed Christian site, is that all ok with you?

Click to expand...

Interesting. I thought the most evil blaspheming thing I have ever seen on a Christian site is to claim that Jesus was unable to correctly teach the Gospel to His disciples, and that Paul had to teach the Apostles the "true" Gospel.

(You did say that.)

But I just saw this thread now, and thought certain things in the OP needed to be set straight.

Let me know if I need to address other things.

Kindly,
Rhema

Rhema said:

would I learn the Koine Greek language so I can read the text AS IT WAS actually written?

Click to expand...

You don't know Greek it has you not understanding the new testament, that's all the proof you need, but also not understanding or believing the Gospel that saves

Rhema said:

But you did (even if you didn't mean to), and I'll let my other posts stand as written, for the reasons I gave there.

Click to expand...

No that's what you do that's the whole point of this discussion. Did Jesus choose Paul as his chosen vessel...Your accusation is because I believe Jesus choose Paul so you should listen to Paul when is is in Scripture, You are not actually accusing yourself and calling Jesus a liar

Rhema said:

Jesus was unable to correctly teach the Gospel to His disciples, and that Paul had to teach the Apostles the "true" Gospel.

Click to expand...

Jesus is the Good news, Jesus taught himself

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Paul taught the Gospel of the Grace of God in the time of the gentiles which you reject and don't understand, It is about Gods love for us and how Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins and rose from the grave so we can become children of God and spend eternity in heaven with him

You can call believing that.... denying Jesus, while you are calling Jesus a liar and saying him dying on the cross was just to shut him up. but you need to deal with the facts as I notice you couldn't back up your accusation with anything other than your opinion, so lets deal with the fact if you reject Pauls message the church is to consider you cursed Galatians 1:8

Seethat said:

It all got a pass from you, it is very biased but there is no foundation to discuss anything because they do not believe the Bible or the Gospel or what Jesus says.

Click to expand...

Pass? You want me to fight your disagreements for you? What did I tell you in my response? "I agree with what you are saying." I'm sorry I can't be the referee you want me to be in every single thread that is created so when what you believe is true, even though in this I agree with you, but that in all instances you are right and everyone else is wrong? Should I play the inquisitor?

Seethat said:

They are here to deny it, they can accuse to God and it's fine by you.

Click to expand...

No it is not fine by me, and I've said so. However, there is wide latitude given between what each chooses to believe and what is posted. The Word of God, defends itself, and has since its inspired writings were done. Many have tried to twist it to their purposes, and they have failed, though they may still have adherents around the world.

Seethat said:

It's supposed to be your job to contend for the faith, not protect unbelievers and let them accuse the church.

Click to expand...

Seethat said:

At what point, as a mod, are you accountable for letting them accuse like that and leaving it up?

Click to expand...

What church might that be? And how do you know what my job is? Show me what it says in the Terms & Rules that have been broken, and I'll act upon it. The link to them is provided at the bottom of each page.

Seethat said:

You actually try to stop me being able to respond and your offer to me is I can be nice to them and answer you many things.

Click to expand...

If I wanted to stop you, I could easily have done so. I did not. So do not think I am against you, or them for that matter. You should want to them to come to the light of Jesus Christ as much as I do. Our Lord and Savior died for them too, though they may reject parts of his word.

Seethat said:

You are playing a dangerous game in the name of Love while allowing blasphemy while redefining what blasphemy is.

Click to expand...

I have not defined blasphemy at all. So, your accusation is baseless and unwarranted. In the name of Love? God is Love! Read 1 Corinthians 13, or what some call the Love Chapter. Take it to heart and it will do you well. Always remember it will work out to His good purpose. Even when it looks to be the darkest! Don't let them take the love of God that abides in you away. I don't believe they can, but they will try. God sees what they do, and He is just to do what is right, to them, and of course us as well.

Seethat said:

Your goal for this thread was similar to theirs, to discredit scripture by how we can interpret it, but no Scripture is open to private interpretation, and the topic is about as clear as you can be, there is no middle ground.

Click to expand...

Saying it doesn't make it so. Prove your accusation that my goal is as you have said! Because what you fail to see, and what I try to consider is that we do not have the original autographs, and so what is considered canon is also disputed by many churches/peoples. Also, the language was not English, and words do not translate precisely as one would want. So, doing what you did above in using different translations is important, but it still needs to consider the context of what is being written.

In trying to protect the word, people have hated, war with each other constantly. Do not fall into that trap. Thousands have died when both sides proclaiming the righteous of belief in Jesus Christ as their Savior and truly believing that the other was wrong! Is this what you take from reading Scripture, the Words, Life of our Lord and Savior Jesus??? Read the temptation in Scripture of Jesus again. What did the Adversary use against Jesus? This is why discernment is important and listening to the Holy Spirit in being guided and in providing understanding and how you answer is most important.

There are two quotes by Charles Spurgeon that I truly like. If you've never read any of his sermons, I suggest you do. They are normally 8 pages long, so be ready for a good read and can be found online. Here they are:

“The Word of God is like a lion. You don’t have to defend a lion. All you have to do is let the lion loose, and the lion will defend itself.”

"Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right."

Understand something about those who you go to battle with. They will call you names and say many other things to you and about you. That is the dark world we live in. Always remember, but for the Grace of God there you go! So, keep your focus, and stay faithful, and know that any changes that happen from the truth you share will be because the Holy Spirit has made it so. Give all the Glory to God my brother! \o/

In the language differences of the original language to English as an example is as follows: John 21:15-17. In that exchange Jesus is asking Peter 3 times if Peter loves (agapaō) him. Peter answer of course, yes lord I love (phileō) you. Do you realize Brother Seethat, the word love in the Greek in these verses are different and mean a different type/level of love? There are many debates on why it is so, but I hope you see my point.

Be patient, prayerful, seeking always what God wants you to know through His writings. Yes, even loving! When what you really want to do is box that others person ears a bit!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Seethat said:

You don't know Greek

Click to expand...

So then no apology from you, eh?

You scold me for misrepresenting you when I didn't (and proved it), and when I politely point out that the evil I was talking about was a TRANSLATION of 2nd Tim. 3:16, you dig in your heels to insult me again.

Interesting.

Look at the squirrelly logic here. You claim that I don't know Greek because I don't arrive at the same belief as you do when I read the Greek text. But you don't know Greek and can't even admit that you never even took a single course. So maybe your translations are leading you astray.

My belief is that if you DID learn Greek (YOU)... then you would see just how badly your translations have misinformed you, ... causing you to believe something that really isn't written.

I think that blindly trusting any translation is a dumb choice, but then you need to understand who you believe and why. I can't make you smarter.

The Disciples followed Jesus for 40 days AFTER he died (and rose from the dead).

- Matthew 28:7 KJV

- Matthew 28:10 KJV

- Mark 16:6-7 KJV

- Luke 24:44-45 KJV

- Acts 1:1-3 KJV

Yet if I understand you correctly, everything that Jesus taught pertaining to the Kingdom of God (The Gospel that Jesus preached) became invalid at His crucifixion. Yet Jesus continued to preach it. !!!

Why would Jesus spend 40 days between his resurrection and his ascension speaking to the Apostles that He chose, of things pertaining to the Kingdom of God - if (as you've claimed) all of it was dispensed with - invalid - useless - dare I say worthless?

Look sir, I am just THUNDERSTRUCK that you believe Paul had to teach the Twelve the Gospel. Because there's no scripture whatsoever to support this. Actually, there IS scripture to refute this:

- Galatians 1:15-19 KJV

If by Paul's own account, he never saw the Apostles (save Peter and James), how could Paul teach them anything? He did meet with the church leaders in Acts 15, but that only dealt with whether Gentiles had to be circumcised or not. And then Paul went away.

I don't know where you learned all that stuff from, but it would do you a GREAT service to fix your understanding. OR... show me the scripture that supports your claims.

Seethat said:

Your accusation is because I believe Jesus choose Paul so you should listen to Paul when is is in Scripture, You are not actually accusing yourself and calling Jesus a liar

Click to expand...

And I see you calling Jesus a liar when you say that the Gospel preached by Jesus was replaced by the Gospel preached by Paul.

Do you believe that every Sermon you hear from any pastor or minister is inerrant? I don't. And I see Paul as a minister... right up until the time when he changed the Gospel of Jesus and crossed the line.

God doesn't blind people. God heals the blind. That's why God sent Ananias to heal Paul's blindness. So what exactly happened to Paul in the dessert on the way to Damascus?

- Acts 9:3-5 KJV

Now there truly are problems with this translation. The word "Lord" occurs only once in the accepted Greek text, but is written twice in the KJV. (I coloured them red.) Take a look at the NRSV -

- Acts 9:5 NRSV

Now when one understands that the Greek word κύριος is the same thing as the English word "Sir," one then reads -

- Acts 9:5

Paul was met by an angel of light that called itself Jesus. Paul was out doing the devil's work, and the devil had reason to interrupt him and blind him.

THEN GOD STEPPED IN.

- Acts 9:10-12 KJV

Now the three day time frame is VERY interesting, but for a later discussion. But probably much to your surprise (because you assumed a LOT about what I believe without finding out). God did send Ananias to heal Paul's blindness that the devil caused. Why? Paul was praying to God, calling upon the name of YHWH. (That's how Jews pray.)

So what to make of this part of the account?

- Acts 9:15-16 KJV

Again, to your surprise, I believe this - that God did indeed select Paul to "bear His name" before Gentiles and kings and Jews... RIGHT UP UNTIL the time when Paul started to Preach a Gospel that contradicted the Gospel of Jesus, and claim Old Testament prophecies for himself.

Now you may need to actually answer this question - Why in heaven would Jesus teach Paul a different Gospel than the one He taught His disciples during His ministry on Earth including the 40 days AFTER he died and rose again?

As I've already said, the sermon in Acts 13 by Paul is EXACTLY the same Gospel that Jesus taught, the same to which Peter testified in Acts 2.

- Acts 13:38 KJV

The Gospel that Jesus preached didn't change because Jesus was crucified and resurrected. The resurrection of Christ PROVED that the Gospel He preached was true; that Jesus taught how to have one's sins forgiven.

But down the road, something changed inside Paul so that he changed what he preached and started to deny the Gospel preached by Jesus, becoming apostate. I know what that is, but you are waayyy not ready for that revelation.

The bottom line is that it's very clear that you teach against the Gospel that the Father sent His Son to preach. (You're not the only one. Most all Christians have a veil upon their understanding.)

- Mark 1:14-15 KJV

If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached.

I get it. You disagree and have been very vocal speaking out against the Gospel that Jesus preached, saying the He changed it.

Seethat said:

Jesus is the Good news, Jesus taught himself

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Jesus taught himself? WHAT ????

May I kindly suggest that you proofread what you post. Should I now actually put words in your mouth? Because I'm pretty sure that you meant to write "Jesus taught this himself." Because Jesus was taught by the Father.

Of course Jesus is the Good news. That's what the word Gospel means. So Mark 1:14 says, "Jesus came ... preaching the GOOD NEWS."

And the GOOD NEWS is everything that Jesus preached. (This isn't rocket science.)

Seethat said:

Paul taught the Gospel of the Grace of God in the time of the gentiles which you reject and don't understand, It is about Gods love for us and how Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins and rose from the grave so we can become children of God and spend eternity in heaven with him

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Yes, Paul changed the Gospel that Jesus preached sometime in the latter part of his ministry.

But Jesus had FORTY DAYS after his resurrection to teach his Apostles your "time of the Gentiles" Gospel. And He didn't.

There is not one Gospel for Gentiles and a separate Gospel for Jews. I hate to sound like @The Gospel of Christ, but you really are preaching a Scofield Two Gospel Heresy - a belief that did not exist until a little over a hundred years ago.

ONE Gospel. Neither Jew nor Gentile. The Gospel that the Father sent Jesus to preach. (Again, not rocket science.)

So the question is WHERE did Jesus say that he was going to die on the cross to save you from your sins? It would seen that no Christian can answer this question. And I find that perplexing.

Please, I beg you. Show me. (ANY scripture from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and even John).

Seethat said:

Paul taught the Gospel of the Grace of God in the time of the gentiles which you reject and don't understand,

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Oh I understand it. I just know that Jesus never taught that.

And Jesus is my Messiah and Lord and Teacher. But in saying "Paul taught," then your teacher is Paul.

- Matthew 23:8-10 NKJV

I know who my teacher is, and I know what He taught.

His name is Jesus the Christ and He taught the Good News. Starting in Mark.

Seethat said:

and saying him dying on the cross was just to shut him up.

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You gotta do better when reading, kind sir. I said the Jews killed him to shut him up. They tortured Him so that he would recant the Gospel that He taught. He did not. Jesus went to His death preaching the True Gospel, and since He died preaching that TRUTH, God raised Him from the Dead, so that all who believe would teach that same Gospel. (Not a different one.)

Seethat said:

so lets deal with the fact if you reject Pauls message the church is to consider you cursed Galatians 1:8

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Yes, the Devil and his preachers love to Curse people. See what Paul has done to you?

- Matthew 5:43-45 NKJV

So in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ, I bless you.

Be blessed,
Rhema