I remember many years singing the hymn "are you washed, washed in the blood of the Lamb"?

"Are you washed in the blood,
In the soul-cleansing blood of the Lamb?
Are your garments spotless?
Are they white as snow?
Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb?"
(A hymn written by Elisha A. Hoffman in 1878)

"I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.” Then he said to me, “These are they who have come out of the great ordeal; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev 7:14 NRSVue)

"but if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." (1Jn 1:7 NRSVue)

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," (Rev 1:5 KJV)
"and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood" (Rev 1:5 NRSVue)
(NRSVue Margin - "Other ancient authorities read washed")

"For if the blood of goats and bulls and the sprinkling of the ashes of a heifer sanctifies those who have been defiled so that their flesh is purified, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to worship the living God!" (Heb 9:13-14 NRSVue)

Christians don't really know what the blood is.

"Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."(Heb 9:22 NRSVue)

Without a sacrifice, there is no forgiveness of sins!

Dylan569 said:

Without a sacrifice, there is no forgiveness of sins!

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Not according to John the Baptist.

- Mark 1:4 NRSV

No blood sacrifice mentioned ever.

Rhema

- Jeremiah 7:22 NRSV

Rhema said:

Not according to John the Baptist.

John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.​

- Mark 1:4 NRSV

No blood sacrifice mentioned ever.

Rhema

For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.​

- Jeremiah 7:22 NRSV

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Lifting Mark 1:4 out of all context is misleading to say the least. The Baptist was speaking to Jews who already know the OT laws, sacrifice, atonement, confession of sins; and they were expecting a fulfillment of OT prophecies of the coming Messiah. John the Baptist was the one appointed by God to introduce the coming Messiah, Jesus the Christ.

So to lift "proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" out of all of John's words to claim that shows forgiveness with only repentance, no confession and forgiveness of sin? John was not preaching to Gentiles who were ignorant of the OT laws and sacrificial system.

You lifted Jer. 7:22 out of context as well. I thought almost any Christian realizes that a verse taken out of context is nothing but a pretext! This applies to how you tried to use Mark 1:4 as well.

Rhema said:

Not according to John the Baptist.

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Statements like this, are similar to... "Just keep the oil changed in the car, and she'll run forever.".
Well, that's only partly true. Yes you need to change the oil sometimes. But you need to fill up with gas,
get a tune-up, change the tires and do a few other things as well.

So many churches today build a doctrine out of a single verse (better yet, part of a single verse) and ignore
all the other verses about a subject.

John 1:29; The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Why was Jesus called a Lamb here by John the Baptist?

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So He did not open His mouth.

(If I remember, you aren't a fan of Revelation, no matter, there are other verses)
Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.
Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

Why is Jesus called the Lamb... "who has been slain". Why did He have to be slain?

Matt 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
Mark 14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.
Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.
1Cor 11:25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

Heb 9:18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood.
Heb 9:20 saying, "THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD COMMANDED YOU."
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

Exod 12:5 'Your lamb shall be an unblemished male a year old; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats.
Exod 12:21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel and said to them, "Go and take for yourselves lambs according to your families, and slay the Passover lamb.

Lev 4:32 'But if he brings a lamb as his offering for a sin offering, he shall bring it, a female without defect.
Lev 5:6 'He shall also bring his guilt offering to the LORD for his sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat as a sin offering. So the priest shall make atonement on his behalf for his sin.

Lev_12:8 'But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.'"
This passage applied to Mary.
Luke 2:23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "EVERY firstborn MALE THAT OPENS THE WOMB SHALL BE CALLED HOLY TO THE LORD"),
Luke 2:24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what was said in the Law of the Lord, "A PAIR OF TURTLEDOVES OR TWO YOUNG PIGEONS."

Ezra 6:20 For the priests and the Levites had purified themselves together; all of them were pure. Then they slaughtered the Passover lamb for all the exiles, both for their brothers the priests and for themselves.

Ezek 46:13 "And you shall provide a lamb a year old without blemish for a burnt offering to the LORD daily; morning by morning you shall provide it.

Mal 1:7 "You are presenting defiled food upon My altar. But you say, 'How have we defiled You?' In that you say, 'The table of the LORD is to be despised.'
Mal 1:8 "But when you present the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? And when you present the lame and sick, is it not evil? Why not offer it to your governor? Would he be pleased with you? Or would he receive you kindly?" says the LORD of hosts.

Deut 17:1 "You shall not sacrifice to the LORD your God an ox or a sheep which has a blemish or any defect, for that is a detestable thing to the LORD your God.

Lev 22:21 'When a man offers a sacrifice of peace offerings to the LORD to fulfill a special vow or for a freewill offering, of the herd or of the flock, it must be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no defect in it.
Lev 22:22 'Those that are blind or fractured or maimed or having a running sore or eczema or scabs, you shall not offer to the LORD, nor make of them an offering by fire on the altar to the LORD.

Deut 15:21 "But if it has any defect, such as lameness or blindness, or any serious defect, you shall not sacrifice it to the LORD your God.

1Pet 1:19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

1 Pet 2:22; WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;
1 Pet 2:23; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
1 Pet 2:24; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

Isa 53:4; Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5; But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.
Isa 53:6; All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.

Rom 4:25; He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Rom 5:8; But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9; Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

2 Cor 5:21; He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Matt 26:28; for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins

Heb 9:28; so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

1 Pet 1:19; but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

Eph 5:2; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.

Heb 9:14; how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15; For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:22; And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Heb 10:12; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,

Eph 1:7; In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

1 Cor 1:30; But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Rev 5:9; And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

Rom 5:6; For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7; For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
Rom 5:8; But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9; Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

1 Cor 15:3; For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

1 Pet 3:18; For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Jesus was the lamb that was slain for our sins.

Dylan569 said:

"Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins."(Heb 9:22 NRSVue)

Without a sacrifice, there is no forgiveness of sins!

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Statements from the writings of Moses in the OT

The blood is mentioned 22 times in Exodus and 66 times in Leviticus. That is 25% of mentions in the entire Bible.

You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the fat of my festival remain until the morning. (Exod 23:18 NRSV)

Moses took the blood and dashed it on the people, and said, “See the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words.” (Exod 24:8 NRSV)

Once a year Aaron shall perform the rite of atonement on its horns. Throughout your generations he shall perform the atonement for it once a year with the blood of the atoning sin offering. It is most holy to the LORD. (Exod 30:10 NRSV)

You shall remove all its fat, as the fat of the sheep is removed from the sacrifice of well-being, and the priest shall turn it into smoke on the altar, with the offerings by fire to the LORD. Thus the priest shall make atonement on your behalf for the sin that you have committed, and you shall be forgiven.
(Lev 4:35 NRSVue)

When you realize your guilt in any of these, you shall confess the sin that you have committed. And you shall bring to the LORD, as your penalty for the sin that you have committed, a female from the flock, a sheep or a goat, as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement on your behalf for your sin. (Lev 5:5-6 NRSV)

And he believed the LORD; and the LORD reckoned it to him as righteousness. (Gen 15:6 NRSV)

Israel saw the great work that the LORD did against the Egyptians. So the people feared the LORD and believed in the LORD and in his servant Moses. (Exod 14:31 NRSV)

And the LORD said to Moses, “How long will this people despise me? And how long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the signs that I have done among them? (Num 14:11 NRSV)

But in spite of this, you have no trust in the LORD your God, (Deut 1:32 NRSV)

Moving on to the New Testament from that OT background

John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And people from the whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem were going out to him, and were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. (Mark 1:4-5 NRSV)

Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” (Act 19:4 NRSVue)

[The Baptist said] Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life but must endure God’s wrath. (Joh 3:36 NRSVue)

John answered all of them by saying, “I baptize you with water; but one who is more powerful than I is coming; I am not worthy to untie the thong of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. (Luke 3:16 NRSV)

Dylan569 said:

Lifting Mark 1:4 out of all context is misleading to say the least.

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It wasn't out of context. And you are quite welcome to read the entire passage, within which NOTHING is preached by John the Baptist about needing any blood for anything. It literally states that he preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, a teaching that stands in opposition to that preached by the Temple Priests and Jewish religious leaders who preached that God demands animal blood sacrifices.

Dylan569 said:

The Baptist was speaking to Jews who already know the OT laws, sacrifice, atonement, confession of sins;

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So then John's preaching was irrelevant? I wouldn't want to deny John's message like that.

- Mark 1:5 KJV

Why bother doing all of this if the Jewish Rabbis and Temple Priests were right?

Dylan569 said:

they were expecting a fulfillment of OT prophecies of the coming Messiah.

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Can't argue with that, and yet despite the assurances of the Jewish Rabbis and the Temple Priests, John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. He certainly didn't have a stone altar nearby for burning up animals.

Dylan569 said:

John the Baptist was the one appointed by God to introduce the coming Messiah, Jesus the Christ.

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Exactly, and so what did Jesus do?

- Mark 1:14-15 KJV

Certainly that gospel Jesus commanded that they believe didn't include animal sacrifices and burnt offerings. Did it?

Dylan569 said:

So to lift "proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" out of all of John's words to claim that shows forgiveness with only repentance, no confession and forgiveness of sin?

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Sorry Dylan, but your question makes no sense. Perhaps you could rephrase, because John's words claim "forgiveness with only repentance (and confession)."

- Mark 1:4-5 KJV

The word "remission" is the exact same Greek word as "forgiveness." G859 (ἄφεσις - aphesis), surely you know this.

Not only does John proclaim forgiveness with only repentance and confession, so does Jesus.

- Matthew 6:9-12 KJV

- Luke 11:4 KJV

Why would Jesus instruct that we pray to the Father asking for the forgiveness of our sins if such a command is insufficient?

Dylan569 said:

John was not preaching to Gentiles who were ignorant of the OT laws and sacrificial system.

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No, he was preaching that the OT laws and sacrificial systems were useless.

- Psalms 40:6 KJV

- Psalms 4:5 KJV

- Isaiah 66:3-4 KJV

- Jeremiah 7:22 NRSV

Dylan569 said:

You lifted Jer. 7:22 out of context as well.

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No. As you can read above, the word of God is very clear on this, and once again, you are welcome to read the entire passage and show just where context has been violated, but it hasn't. Merely saying so is a pretty cheap shot.

- Jeremiah 7:22-27 NRSV

(But I'm pretty sure you won't listen to Jeremiah either.)

Rhema

B-A-C said:

Why is Jesus called the Lamb... "who has been slain". Why did He have to be slain?

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B-A-C, the fact that Jesus was slain, doesn't preclude that he HAD to be slain. But it's pretty hard to be resurrected from the dead if you're not, well, DEAD.

- Romans 1:3-4 KJV

B-A-C said:

Matt 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
Mark 14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.
Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

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Yes, very, VERY, bad translations. Purposefully bad, by very biased theologians.

But lets just read what you quoted. Read carefully, purposefully and accurately -

"THIS is my blood of the covenant." What is the "this"?

A number of years ago, I read something posted in another forum stating - "Jesus said his blood was the blood of the covenant." But that's not what is written. So again I ask, what is the THIS?

Don't just react. Read it again. Pray about it. Then tell me what the THIS is.

Rhema

(All the rest is pretty moot at the moment, and further reply would be a distration.)