Its our heart... our intent... our real attitude, mixed with a brokenness and seeking Jesus to fix us, that leads us to being saved. Although it can happen at an alter, it can literally happen anywhere. For wherever you are, the Lord can see you and respond to your prayer. And there are people who will fake brokenness at an alter for people to view so as to be accepted, whether for the social acceptance of the believers there, or to be a wolf in sheeps clothing, to see what havoc they can spread.

Dave M said:

Wondering if you think all a person has to do is open his mouth claim that they believe say they have, and are now saved. ???

NO matter how they live the rest of there lives??

Thanks for the replies

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Maybe yes, maybe no.

Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. Point out anything in me that offends you, and lead me along the path of everlasting life. Psalm 139:23-24 NLT

On the what if question on how one lives their lives. You would think not, but does anyone of us know the beginning or the end of someone?

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13 NKJV

With the Love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Is belief alone ever enough?

Mark 5:6 Seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him;
Mark 5:7 and shouting with a loud voice, he *said, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!"

Did this demon believe that Jesus was the Son of God? Did he acknowledge Jesus's authority over him? (Lordship)

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Even the demons believe in Jesus.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

If all you have to do is confess that Jesus is Lord with your mouth...

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

These people called Jesus "Lord, Lord". Wouldn't that be confessing Jesus is Lord?
Why weren't they allowed into the kingdom? (the answer is in verse 23, what lifestyle are they practcing?)

Mark 1:24 saying, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!"
Luke 4:34 "Let us alone! What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!"

Even the demons believe in Jesus.

Only God knows of course.
People can feel pressured and their call isn't sincere. I've seen people drag someone to them.
If a person truly wants to he/she will go on their own without the pressure from others.

If there is no change after, however small then the person wasn't sincere.

Luke 14:23 "And the master said to the slave, 'Go out into the highways and along the hedges, and compel them to come in, so that my house may be filled.

2Cor 5:11 Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest to God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences.
Acts 26:28 Agrippa replied to Paul, "In a short time you will persuade me to become a Christian."
Acts 26:29 And Paul said, "I would wish to God, that whether in a short or long time, not only you, but also all who hear me this day, might become such as I am, except for these chains."

2Cor 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Acts 17:2 And according to Paul's custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Acts 17:3 explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ."
Acts 17:4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

It would seem that compelling, persuading and pressuring people to be saved is what Jesus told some to do, and it's what some of the apostles said to do.

B-A-C said:

Is belief alone ever enough?

Mark 5:6 Seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him;
Mark 5:7 and shouting with a loud voice, he *said, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!"

Did this demon believe that Jesus was the Son of God? Did he acknowledge Jesus's authority over him? (Lordship)

Click to expand...

That demon had no way of knowing, no spiritual or gospel understanding.

Not the kind of religion God sets his good seal of approval on

Dave M said:

Wondering if you think all a person has to do is open his mouth claim that they believe say they have, and are now saved. ???

NO matter how they live the rest of there lives??

Thanks for the replies

Click to expand...

Most of the time, yes.

Publicly making a stand to give your life to Jesus is not ever going to be a Mickey Mouse occasion with God. If not saved, you are certainly drawing close to Him, and this will result in Him drawing closer to you.

James 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Today, with all media mocking Christianity, I don't think it is ever 'cool' to go up front. I would mostly bet on the individual being sincere.

B-A-C said:

Is belief alone ever enough?

Mark 5:6 Seeing Jesus from a distance, he ran up and bowed down before Him;
Mark 5:7 and shouting with a loud voice, he *said, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me!"

Click to expand...

An altar call is to give your life to Jesus, this is never belief alone. It is a decision to repent of your sins and accept Jesus as Lord. Usually He would have been knocking on the door to the individuals heart all meeting.

Rev 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

B-A-C said:

If all you have to do is confess that Jesus is Lord with your mouth...

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

These people called Jesus "Lord, Lord". Wouldn't that be confessing Jesus is Lord?
Why weren't they allowed into the kingdom? (the answer is in verse 23, what lifestyle are they practcing?)

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You need to properly read those verses. The so-called Christians here are:

1. Casting out demons
2. Prophesying
3. Performing miracles

These are actions that appeal to our pride. These people are lifting themselves up and not Jesus.

This is not the heart of someone who goes up to the front at an altar call.

B-A-C said:

Mark 1:24 saying, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!"
Luke 4:34 "Let us alone! What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!"

Even the demons believe in Jesus.

Click to expand...

Knowing of Jesus and accepting Jesus, very different matters.

B-A-C said:

If all you have to do is confess that Jesus is Lord with your mouth...

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You are misquoting scripture. The full passage is:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt 1. confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt 2. believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is impossible for anyone to believe a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is God of the universe (Lord) and was raised from the dead.

One can only tick 1 and 2 if they are given a revelation of Jesus from the Holy Spirit. We are only given a revelation from the Holy Spirit if we pass God's judgment of our heart and mind. As this revelation of Jesus is part and parcel of being washed clean of all sin and made perfect to God.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jer 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? 10; “I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind,

We see in Matt 16:15-17 that Peter received this revelation of Jesus. Meditate on that fact. The disciple with the most faith. The only one to walk on water. He needed a revelation of Jesus. He was given this revelation. Someone like Judas was not given this revelation of who Jesus is.

Matt 16:15-17 "But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16; Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17 ;Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

According to scripture, calling someone the Messiah has always meant calling them God almighty, I have a whole post on this I can share if anyone disagrees.

My main concern is that it can lead to a false hope to some people, it is taught or at least comes across to me as a easy way to get fire insurance and not have to chase after God. I love it in some ways and dislike in others,,, there really needs to be a focus on relationship building with Jesus, I think some people get emotional because of a great message go up there and thats it, they forget about it.
I guess that is between them and God.

Chasing after God and building relationship with him is a life long journey.

thanks for all the great replies !!

Dave M said:

My main concern is that it can lead to a false hope to some people, it is taught or at least comes across to me as a easy way to get fire insurance and not have to chase after God. I love it in some ways and dislike in others,,, there really needs to be a focus on relationship building with Jesus, I think some people get emotional because of a great message go up there and thats it, they forget about it.
I guess that is between them and God.

Chasing after God and building relationship with him is a life long journey.

thanks for all the great replies !!

Click to expand...

How do you explain the thief next to Jesus on the cross?

Dropping altar call salvation will result in teaching a works based salvation. This is much worse.

Yes, it is between them and God. God properly vets a person and makes Himself known to the person. You, we know if we 'fake' calling Jesus Lord. 1 Cor 12:3 is not confusing and God does not beat around the bush.

Receiving salvation is not a life long struggle, please for the love of God, stop teaching and implying something like this. That teaching stumbles Christians a lot more than them knowingly faking an altar call to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Growing closer to God, the relationship part, will be from the point of salvation into all eternity.

Making a statement alone or in front of others to show them and the world is not enough.
At one point, sooner hopefully, there must be permanent change and must hate who they used to be.

Dave M said:

Wondering if you think all a person has to do is open his mouth claim that they believe say they have, and are now saved. ???

NO matter how they live the rest of there lives??

Thanks for the replies

Click to expand...

Romans 10:8-10​

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;


9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I take their confession by faith.

if someone confesses Jesus as Lord and Savior, I believe they are saved.

The reason for this is simple; I have faith, and am planted in the Lord Jesus. In addition to this, it is better for me to believe, and to pray, rather than to seek out evidence beyond the fruit of the Holy Spirit. If someone professes to believe in Jesus, yet has no fruit, in this case I would pray that they would bear fruit.

Now, some are indeed false brethren; the Lord knows who they are, and they will be exposed one way or another, and I pray for them also, that they would come to repentance, receive forgiveness, and be redeemed:

Jude 4​

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 3:1-13​

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

Galatians 6:1-10​

6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 John 5:16-18​

16If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Matthew 18:15-20​

15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Usually when we meet a true 'false brethren,' and something takes places that puts them on our radar (not that we're seeking iniquity in them, but rather, their iniquity is exposed through their falsehood--a primary example being using the faith the profit monetarily, serving the coin and not our only true God and Savior Jesus), the Holy Spirit equips us with discernment, and He also guides us in how to maneuver the situation (still learning, opening to all correction!).

The manner in which we choose to respond to false brethren, even after they are exposed, could be the very grace they need for the Lord Jesus to be Glorified in God, and in them, which may be cause for them to turn & repent, and become true brethren and remain false no longer.

Admon Mikha'el said:

Romans 10:8-10​

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;


9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

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Perfect verse thank you for posting, I think what I see is most people confess with there mouth, and only God knows there heart, but I do believe the fruit that we see in there life has a relation to the belief in the there heart.

John 15:2​

Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

Matthew 13
Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

KingJ said:

How do you explain the thief next to Jesus on the cross?

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I let God word lead me, A verse that brother Curtis often sights

John 6:28-29​

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

KingJ said:

Dropping altar call salvation will result in teaching a works based salvation. This is much worse.

Click to expand...

Could not disagree more,

Dave M said:

I let God word lead me, A verse that brother Curtis often sights

John 6:28-29​

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

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Good verse. Now what makes you think someone called to the front at an altar call cannot tick that and just like the theif next to Jesus on the cross, qualify for eternal bliss?

Why do you contradict this post of yours by typing the underlined below?

Dave M said:

My main concern is that it can lead to a false hope to some people, it is taught or at least comes across to me as a easy way to get fire insurance and not have to chase after God. I love it in some ways and dislike in others,,, there really needs to be a focus on relationship building with Jesus, I think some people get emotional because of a great message go up there and thats it, they forget about it.
I guess that is between them and God.

Chasing after God and building relationship with him is a life long journey.

thanks for all the great replies !!

Click to expand...

You are mixing two separate topics. One is salvation and the other is getting to know God as someone who is already saved.

You are pushing non OSAS theology here. As such, mixing relationship with salvation = working for salvation = works based salvation.

Please explain how the equation above is false.

Dave M said:

Wondering if you think all a person has to do is open his mouth claim that they believe say they have, and are now saved. ???

NO matter how they live the rest of there lives??

Thanks for the replies

Click to expand...

Absolutely not, no life change, no salvation.