Loyal
There has been a lot of debate about when the rapture is here on TalkJesus over the years. This is kind of related, but not necessarily.
Even if you believe in a "pre-trib" rapture, the fact remains there will be Christians that come out of the great tribulation. So maybe they got saved during the tribulation?
Either way, the Bible says at least some Christians will go through at least part of the tribulation.
Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and races of people and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:10; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Rev 7:11; And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12; saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
It says here that people from every nation and race of people will come out of the great tribulation.
Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Why are the "elect" still here, it seems at least some of the elect will go through the tribulation.
Mark say the same thing.
Mark 13:19; "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.
Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Some Christians will be beheaded during the tribulation by the beast, "because of their testimony of Jesus".
For most Christians I have spoken to over the years, the rapture seems to be an all or none type of thing. Either everyone gets raptured, or no one does, but there is a third option I have also heard.
For example the church of Smyrna...
Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
This church will face tribulation for at least "10 days" ( whether that is figurative, or literal remains unknown ). But yet the church of Philadelphia is told...
Rev 3:10; 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
So which is it? All get tested, none get tested, or some get tested and some don't?
Daniel says...
Dan 12:10; "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
During the time of the abomination of desolation, "Many will be ... purified and refined". Surely this is speaking of believing Christians. I don't believe non-believers can be purified.
Daniel also says...
Dan 7:21; "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
The beast is fighting with the saints and "overpowering" them. Is this a physical death, a spiritual death. This also is unknown. John says the same thing in Revelation.
Rev 13:7; It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and race of people and tongue and nation was given to him.
Why are the saints still here when the beast takes over? Maybe these are those who get saved during the tribulation, but even so, they are there.
There is more... but this is a pretty good start. Who are the Christians who go through the tribulation?
Even if you believe in a "pre-trib" rapture, the fact remains there will be Christians that come out of the great tribulation. So maybe they got saved during the tribulation?
Either way, the Bible says at least some Christians will go through at least part of the tribulation.
Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and races of people and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:10; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Rev 7:11; And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12; saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
It says here that people from every nation and race of people will come out of the great tribulation.
Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Why are the "elect" still here, it seems at least some of the elect will go through the tribulation.
Mark say the same thing.
Mark 13:19; "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.
Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.
Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Some Christians will be beheaded during the tribulation by the beast, "because of their testimony of Jesus".
For most Christians I have spoken to over the years, the rapture seems to be an all or none type of thing. Either everyone gets raptured, or no one does, but there is a third option I have also heard.
For example the church of Smyrna...
Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
This church will face tribulation for at least "10 days" ( whether that is figurative, or literal remains unknown ). But yet the church of Philadelphia is told...
Rev 3:10; 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
So which is it? All get tested, none get tested, or some get tested and some don't?
Daniel says...
Dan 12:10; "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
During the time of the abomination of desolation, "Many will be ... purified and refined". Surely this is speaking of believing Christians. I don't believe non-believers can be purified.
Daniel also says...
Dan 7:21; "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
The beast is fighting with the saints and "overpowering" them. Is this a physical death, a spiritual death. This also is unknown. John says the same thing in Revelation.
Rev 13:7; It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and race of people and tongue and nation was given to him.
Why are the saints still here when the beast takes over? Maybe these are those who get saved during the tribulation, but even so, they are there.
There is more... but this is a pretty good start. Who are the Christians who go through the tribulation?
