What to expect in hell

KingJ · May 2, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
I did -

The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus appears in the context and proximity of other parables and is located near the end of a long line of parables found in Luke 15 to 16 -
the parable of the Lost Sheep,
the Lost Coin,
the Lost Son,
the Unjust Steward
and finally the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

Nowhere does Jesus say that it is not a parable because names are used.

Jesus taught via parables all the time. We all know that. Why would this case be any different?

Christ is speaking specifically to the Pharisees. Who had accepted the belief, that when a person died, they went directly from the grave (not from the White Throne judgement seat) into a temporary purification fire to purify the soul. It was an erroneous belief that the Jews understood. So Jesus used its as subject matter.

And notice this is not Traditional Hell which is the final and permanent - The Lake of Fire.

The Rich Man’s brothers were “Moses and the Prophets”. Who are their brothers? The Jews. It is about the Jews represented by the Rich man. The Jewish nation was to share the literal and spiritual blessings God had given them (riches) with the nations (beggars) of the world, represented by Lazarus.

Is Luke 16:19-31 a parable or an account of events that actually occurred? | GotQuestions.org

Is Luke 16:19-31 a parable or an account of events that actually occurred? If Luke 16:19-31 is a description of an incident that happened, doesn’t it contradict other Scriptures?

www.gotquestions.org

Eddie Deepfield said:
You cannot see that because you want this parable to be about conditions in Traditional Hell - which would suit the idea that hell is not such a bad place.

I think this is the fourth time I have made this statement: Luke 16 is important as it is the only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives details on what exactly a spiritual body will endure in fire in the afterlife.

Please meditate on this line before you respond. I feel you are dancing around this fact.

If I wanted to argue that hell was a nice place, there are many more scriptures I would use. As has been done in the OP. Not sure why you think I think Luke 16 is 'nice'. I don't. Luke 16 mentions agony in fire.

KingJ · May 2, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
Rom 2;6,7 "He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who obey patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking1 and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."

All this means is, that those who obey Gods salvation gospel plan and fall under Christ,s umbrella of righteousness, will get eternal life in heaven according to

their good work of obeying it.

and those who don't and who are found in their own unrighteous will get wrath and fury - which is traditional hell according

to their bad work of denying it..

Incorrect. Rom 2:5 gives necessary context ''But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed''

Note how it says ''storing up wrath''. Some store up more wrath then others.

This is actually a very big bible study topic. I will just mention three facts for you to consider.

1, God would not be called just if He gave the same punishment to all. That would be a perversion of justice. According to Job 34:12 it is unthinkable that God pervert justice.
2. Paul rebukes Christians who cannot judge punishment for crimes better then the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9. Now you want to assume God will make that mistake?
3. Rev 22:18 is evidence of a certain type of punishment that is given only to false teachers.

There will most certainly be a punishment in hell according to the crimes you did. That is not up for debate.

KingJ · May 2, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
OT testament scriptures can only be seen from the viewpoint of NT scriptures. Otherwise they are irrelevant for the NT dispensation. They were written to and apply ONLY to OT Jews not NT peoples.

The only crime relevant is to reject Gods salvation plan in Christ.

That is what sends you to hell.

Your name is NOT written in the Lambs book of life.

All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.

The OT scripture I quoted was Psalm 145:17 The Lord is righteous in all his ways and faithful in all he does.

Please explain what you mean using that scripture. You are touching on a truth that is a separate topic.

KingJ · May 2, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
That,s purgatory - according to Roman Catholic doctrine the souls of those who die in God's grace may make satisfaction for past sins and so become fit for heaven.

Purgatory is not necessarily fire and no, I was not referring to it. Per post # 742, scripture is clear on punishment according to crimes. If punishment is fire, which it is, it would seem to be rather obvious that people spend a session according to their sin in fire. As explained in my OP.

Eddie Deepfield · May 3, 2024

KingJ said:
Purgatory is not necessarily fire and

Yep it is.

Purgatory is a place of temporary purification of the soul for heaven.

The nature of this cleansing has traditionally been assumed to mean a purifying or cleansing fire.

The RCC at one stage, in their two thousand year history, would burn heretics at the stake in a bonfire, to cleanse them and give them a taste, of what was to come.

MedicBravo · May 3, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
Yep it is.

Purgatory is a place of temporary purification of the soul for heaven.

The nature of this cleansing has traditionally been assumed to mean a purifying or cleansing fire.

The RCC at one stage, in their two thousand year history, would burn heretics at the stake in a bonfire, to cleanse them and give them a taste, of what was to come.

Purgatory is NOT a place.
No one has ever given scripture to back it as such.
The idea of "soft Hell" is laughably absurd and that if you pay the RCC enough money you can get your grandparents out of it.

KingJ · May 3, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
Yep it is.

Purgatory is a place of temporary purification of the soul for heaven.

The nature of this cleansing has traditionally been assumed to mean a purifying or cleansing fire.

The RCC at one stage, in their two thousand year history, would burn heretics at the stake in a bonfire, to cleanse them and give them a taste, of what was to come.

It is known as a place of purification in fire, correct. But, if you do a study on the topic you will see that it is not only fire that is taught. But it is a non-issue. I would prefer discussing the other posts you have yet to reply to.

KingJ · May 3, 2024

MedicBravo said:
Purgatory is NOT a place.
No one has ever given scripture to back it as such.
The idea of "soft Hell" is laughably absurd and that if you pay the RCC enough money you can get your grandparents out of it.

There is a passage in the Maccabees that suggests a place like Purgatory could exist. There are also a number of other scriptures that allude to it.

It is not an absurd idea. It is actually very sound. But still incorrect.

Purgatory is to ensure that those who go to heaven or hell are firm in their decision. This is logical and a sound belief as God is just. There is absolutely no such thing as someone landing up in hell and being shocked that they are there for all eternity.

The payment to get out of Purgatory is a separate topic. Most misteach the A-Z. Please do not be one of those. Do a thorough study on the topic. It is wise to do such before incriminating the RCC. Imagine they did that to you?

Bill · May 3, 2024

Bethel said:
B-A-C, is trying to prove that a Christian can lose their Salvation.

Let me show you , ,Reader, how to understand something..

A.) Where there is no LAW, there is no SIN".. "no Transgression".

Notice the verse didnt say there would not be any carnality.

So, notice this verse....>>The born again are "not under the LAW, but under GRACE".

See that? There is no LAW that can define a CHRISTian as a SINNER, because the born again are not under the Law.

This means that the born again exist in "GRACE"......... and Grace is not The Law, ...........= Grace is that place where there is "no Transgression" that is based on the LAW evaluating the deed.

This is why Paul told the born again....."Use not this LIBERTY">..........= use not this understanding ........to commit works of the Flesh".

Paraphrase....

Now that you know that There is no Law on you that can define your carnality as SIN......do not now go and live like a sinner because you know you are "under Grace".

Christians can lose their salvation. As seen by way of Judas. Because in Scripture it states clearly that judas's name was written in heaven. And then he threw it away afterwards

MedicBravo · May 3, 2024

"suggests" is not " is a place" or "is not a place".
According to the Catholics, it is. There is a big difference between "Purgatory"; a person, place, or thing as a proper noun.
The word isn't in the Bible but the altered Catholic bible it is.
Where did Jesus or God say there was a Third option?
Where does it say HOW much one can pay to get a loved on out?
Where does it say how one can know if a loved one is there? It doesn't.
The CC has been known to sell Indulgences where you pay the CC for forgiveness of sins. They've been "banned" and "unbanned" times over human history.

Eddie Deepfield · May 4, 2024

KingJ said:
Luke 16 is important as it is the only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives details on what exactly a spiritual body will endure in fire in the afterlife.

Yep - But we are not talking about the Lake of Fire - are we?

A little bit of soul purification, with lip cooling and a fires side chat, cannot be likened to eternity in the Lake of Fire/Traditional HELL - can it ?

Lazarus was NOT in TRADITIONAL HELL. - Was He?

There IS a lake of fire where the wicked will be cast into eternal punishment.

" ......... cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev20;10

This IS the ultimate judgment that will come upon those who reject God and His ways.

And i,m sure the Devil and his demons won't have water to cool lips or have a comforting chat.

Eddie Deepfield · May 4, 2024

MedicBravo said:
The word isn't in the Bible but the altered Catholic bible it is.

MedicBravo said:
Purgatory is NOT a place.
No one has ever given scripture to back it as such.
The idea of "soft Hell" is laughably absurd and that if you pay the RCC enough money you can get your grandparents out of it.

Agreed - it is not a place. or even Biblical.

Just a RCC traditional teaching creation to make out that, not so bad people, can still go to heaven after little bit of temporary purification.

This is understandable because the teaching on Biblical Hell is horrifying especially to modern sensibilities.

But it is heresy - none the less.

Eddie Deepfield · May 4, 2024

KingJ said:
God would not be called just if He gave the same punishment to all. That would be a perversion of justice. According to Job 34:12 it is unthinkable that God pervert justice.

The only crime that puts you in traditional Hell is equally common to all. And so is its judgement.

It is the rejection of Jesus Christ and His redemption/atonement/ salvation plan.

The only thing that puts you in heaven is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and His redemption/atonement/ salvation plan.

So there is no perversion of justice.

Die In Christ - you go to heaven to be judged at the Bema seat Judgement seat of Christ - for rewards.

Die out of Christ - you go to the Great WhiteThrone Judgement Seat of God and join the Devil your father in traditional hell.

God made his Salvation Plan so simple that a child could understand.

Eddie Deepfield · May 4, 2024

KingJ said:
The OT scripture I quoted was Psalm 145:17 The Lord is righteous in all his ways and faithful in all he does.

Please explain what you mean using that scripture. You are touching on a truth that is a separate topic.

That verse explains the character of God.

The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and not unrighteous in any of them. In all his acts of government he is just, fair to all, by administering justice to all equally.

We are duty bound to acknowledge it.

However that is in this life and this dispensation. The dispensation of Grace and mercy.

Judgment without mercy and grace is coming if you are found outside God grace and mercy by rejection of Jesus,s salvation plan.

James 2:3; 3" ...For he shall have judgment without mercy,...."

Revelation 14:10. "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone."

KingJ · May 4, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
A little bit of soul purification, with lip cooling and a fires side chat, cannot be likened to eternity in the Lake of Fire/Traditional HELL - can it ?

Well you are now forcing one to use their imagination and add to scripture what is not there.

This is now the 5th time I am making this statement. Please meditate on it. Luke 16 is the only passage that explains the suffering of a spiritual body in fire.

Only! The next reply of mine to your post is going to be quoting a dictionary.

Eddie Deepfield said:
Lazarus was NOT in TRADITIONAL HELL. - Was He?

Non-issue, see above line repeated 5 times.

Eddie Deepfield said:
There IS a lake of fire where the wicked will be cast into eternal punishment.
" ......... cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev20;10

This IS the ultimate judgment that will come upon those who reject God and His ways.

Yes, my OP explains those scriptures that teach exactly what eternal punishment entails. No need to use our imagination.

Eddie Deepfield said:
And i,m sure the Devil and his demons won't have water to cool lips or have a comforting chat.

How do you know? No unfounded assumptions please. Once more I am warning you to be careful of adding to scripture what is not there. Especially on a delicate topic like this.

You cannot and must not as a Christian type or teach a line like this. You are literally 100% guilty of Rev 22:19 by doing that. Please try understand that.

Rev 22:18-19 18 I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book.

KingJ · May 4, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
The only crime that puts you in traditional Hell is equally common to all. And so is its judgement.

It is the rejection of Jesus Christ and His redemption/atonement/ salvation plan.

The only thing that puts you in heaven is the acceptance of Jesus Christ and His redemption/atonement/ salvation plan.

So there is no perversion of justice.

Die In Christ - you go to heaven to be judged at the Bema seat Judgement seat of Christ - for rewards.

Die out of Christ - you go to the Great WhiteThrone Judgement Seat of God and join the Devil your father in traditional hell.

God made his Salvation Plan so simple that a child could understand.

You are missing the point of my line. Those who go to hell will be punished for their sins and those who go to heaven will not be. As such, you are dancing around the point I made with regards to a perversion of justice.

If all in hell receive the same punishment it is a gross perversion of justice. I feel this is a ''duh'' fact.

KingJ · May 4, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
That verse explains the character of God.

The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and not unrighteous in any of them. In all his acts of government he is just, fair to all, by administering justice to all equally.

We are duty bound to acknowledge it.

However that is in this life and this dispensation. The dispensation of Grace and mercy.

Judgment without mercy and grace is coming if you are found outside God grace and mercy by rejection of Jesus,s salvation plan.

James 2:3; 3" ...For he shall have judgment without mercy,...."

Revelation 14:10. "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone."

You said the dispensation of grace was NT. Now you are saying the OT verse I gave is the dispensation of grace?

As I said, the point you raising is a separate topic. I propose you re-read my original post.

MedicBravo · May 4, 2024

Eddie Deepfield said:
Agreed - it is not a place. or even Biblical.

Just a RCC traditional teaching creation to make out that, not so bad people, can still go to heaven after little bit of temporary purification.

This is understandable because the teaching on Biblical Hell is horrifying especially to modern sensibilities.

But it is heresy - none the less.

Tell a Catholic that and see how they respond.

Eddie Deepfield · May 5, 2024

MedicBravo said:
Tell a Catholic that and see how they respond.

KingJ said:
How do you know? No unfounded assumptions please. Once more I am warning you to be careful of adding to scripture what is not there. Especially on a delicate topic like this.

Catholics will agree that it is a traditional addition to their faith.

The twin pillars of the RCC are Scripture and Tradition approved by the Papacy.

They are not like the Protestants who only rely on the holy scripture. And not on any tradition added.

Eddie Deepfield · May 5, 2024

KingJ said:
How do you know? No unfounded assumptions please. Once more I am warning you to be careful of adding to scripture what is not there. Especially on a delicate topic like this.

NOT unfounded in the very least at all whatsoever. We ALL know about the Devil and his Demons. Do you think they are good guys? No. The opposite. Just to be in Hell with them is Hell itself. Forget about the fire and all. No one expects them to feel any pity for the humans suffering in hell - in fact the opposite they will be laughing.

The Devil is according to the Holy Bible.

1. Evil personified.
2. Corrupt personified.
3. Pride personified.
4. Arrogant personified.
5. Cruel personified.
6. Fierce personified.
7. Powerful personified
8. Deceitful personified
9. Subtle personified.
10. Pied piper personified.

Which means the demons are the same as their master.

Where is the false teaching?

What to expect in hell

What to expect in hell

Annihilation - Instant destruction

Universalism - Suffering for a while and then united with Jesus

Eternal torment - Limited suffering, not such a bad place, mostly pet friendly

Eternal torment - limited suffering, a horrible environment, no pets

Eternal torment - torturous, excruciating pain and suffering, no pets

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