Are we saved by our own efforts or are we saved by God's efforts ?

B-A-C · Aug 11, 2022

Rockerduck said:
Ephesians 2: 8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

There is of course, a before and after. How you "Get" saved is one thing.
How you "stay" saved is another.

Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

B-A-C · Aug 11, 2022

Brightfame52 said:
Thats the function of a Saviour !

Well certainly no one gets saved without Jesus.
But life guards are saviors too. Some people willingly jump back in the water.

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Brightfame52 · Aug 11, 2022

B-A-C said:
Well certainly no one gets saved without Jesus.
But life guards are saviors too. Some people willingly jump back in the water.

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Thats Jesus Job, to save, He is the Saviour. As Saviour He gives Repentance and Forgiveness Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

emanuel88 · Aug 12, 2022

Remember our own works cannot save us thus our efforts never saved us but Jesus efforts save us we must look for Jesus in our hearts. Make A heart of stone into into heart of flesh and put his commandments into our heart. From it our mouth will utter the truth and confess on him and he will save us. Not ourselves we did not make ourselves but like psalm 100 says he made us and we are part of his flock anything else you do with your hands is pointless unless you put them in God's hands !!!

Brightfame52 · Aug 12, 2022

emanuel88 said:
Remember our own works cannot save us thus our efforts never saved us but Jesus efforts save us we must look for Jesus in our hearts. Make A heart of stone into into heart of flesh and put his commandments into our heart. From it our mouth will utter the truth and confess on him and he will save us. Not ourselves we did not make ourselves but like psalm 100 says he made us and we are part of his flock anything else you do with your hands is pointless unless you put them in God's hands !!!

Jesus saves His People, He gives them a New Heart, He writes His Laws in us inwardly.

emanuel88 · Aug 12, 2022

Only then anything you do with works or efforts build for your freedom from sin.

emanuel88 · Oct 17, 2022

You just answer your first question know that only thru God's effort are you saved everything else is minimal your not relying 100% in God's help and Jesus lioved in 100% truly is the same discusion we have in freewill you don't put your will in God's will there kjw47 and to do that you must pray and pray like Jesus and like he said rely on God's intervention. Just remember when A storm comes it doens'0t mean you stay in the storm and rely on God and just don't move i'm not meaning that !
But you move from the storm even jesus when he was perseuted he left when he was threaten by people in vilages by pharisees and threaten to stone him he left rather to enter in conflict. You move from the storm and run if God preordained you move in the storm and survive he's will he will make it happen just for you to be part of his plan in special way. No your not putting things in God's hands you have conflict with you will and God's will ebcause you say that but you cannot complete the task.

You speak like your scared and can put your will because you cannot understand to be in his will 100% I have been in 100% with him in soemtimes and sometimes 88% and 45% sometimes 50% trust him and someitmes I failed the other 50% know yo can't have 100% right away but Jesus he had always 100% that is why. He said he came here being God as the son and showing man to be the second Adam thru trusting in the lord in pitchblack darkness by praying and only praying he did not bring angels and when Judah who betray him wanted force him like some evangelical pastors say so to bring A host of angels to bring his judgement and save him so the romans would be destroy by some historians account.
Jesus did nothing but did what he want meant to do pay for your sins and did not come with sword but that will be in the end times. And for you to get 100% pray and pray and alsoe love thy neighbor do his will and do what
ephesians 5:18-20

18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Pur purpsoe since the Eden was for to sing like in heaven and sing hossanah hossanah hossanh that is our purpose. Can we do still the plan of Eden is what the plan of God is ? Yes and jesus said
Luke 24:44
Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms.”
Jesus is the second Adam and he's purose was for us to be like Jesus to do his will by relying in him 100% you can't do the 100% I reccomend you test yourself and do what he wants !

Bethel · Oct 17, 2022

If we could be saved or stay saved by our "own efforts", then Jesus didn't have to die on the Cross.

Twistie · Oct 19, 2022

B-A-C said:
There is of course, a before and after. How you "Get" saved is one thing.
How you "stay" saved is another.

Jas 2:20; But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

For by grace ye are saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of Most High

Now faith is a substance of things hoped for the evidence of things that are not seen

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word Of Most High so things which are not seen were not made of things which do appear

But without Faith it is Impossible to please Most High for he that COMETH to Most High Must believe that He is and that He is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him

For Most Holy Loved The world so much That He Gave His Only Begotten Son that so whom ever believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal Life

Knowing this that the trying of your faith worketh patience

Even so Faith Without Works is dead

✌

Bethel · Oct 19, 2022

Lets look as this idea of....>Jesus saved you with His Blood and Death, and now you have to keep myself saved by doing WORKS and keeping COMMANDMENTS, that could not save you to begin with, which is why Jesus had do die on the Cross for you.

So, not only is it Cross rejecting theology to teach that what could not save you, before Christ saved you is now required to stay saved........ but its also just very stupid, quite ignorant, to believe that what can't can save you, which is your works, your deeds, your lifestyle, is now somehow valid as a "must do self effort" that keeps you saved,
Thats just DUMB.
Very DUMB.

Listen, How can what can't save you to begin with, keep you saved later after Jesus SAVED YOU already?

This is one of those truly stupid theologies that fails every way you look at it..... Theologically or common sense, yet, some still believe it .

Twistie · Oct 19, 2022

Bethel said:
Lets look as this idea of....>Jesus saved you with His Blood and Death, and now you have to keep myself saved by doing WORKS and keeping COMMANDMENTS, that could not save you to begin with, which is why Jesus had do die on the Cross for you.

So, not only is it Cross rejecting theology to teach that what could not save you, before Christ saved you is now required to stay saved........ but its also just very stupid, quite ignorant, to believe that what can't can save you, which is your works, your deeds, your lifestyle, is now somehow valid as a "must do self effort" that keeps you saved,
Thats just DUMB.
Very DUMB.

Listen, How can what can't save you to begin with, keep you saved later after Jesus SAVED YOU already?

This is one of those truly stupid theologies that fails every way you look at it..... Theologically or common sense, yet, some still believe it .

Faith without works is dead yet works with out faith is just as deadly
FYI to look theologically is looking with eyes of the flesh only Spirit can reveal spiritual thing n only one can do that
So I say it is written put the Kingdom of heaven first n all else will follow
Your home is where your heart is at
I'm trying to figure out how when one does good they consider it work?
When it's written there's only One good
If one claims to know Him yet goes around doing evil that person is a liar n knows Him not

Twistie

Bethel · Oct 19, 2022

Twistie said:
Faith without works is dead

James says that faith is dead without works, but Heretics rewrite the verse to say : SALVATION is lost without works, .....and that is a Cross Denying, Grace Rejecting LIE written by deceivers who are teaching that The Blood and Death of Christ is only as good as they are......

= Galatians 1:8

B-A-C · Oct 19, 2022

Bethel said:
Galatians 1:8

And what was that gospel that was preached?

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Rev 2:26; 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;

Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:44; "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Bethel said:
Heretics rewrite the verse to say : SALVATION is lost without works

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I guess James was a Heretic.

B-A-C · Oct 19, 2022

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8; "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

We can do nothing without Jesus. There is no salvation without Jesus. We can't do anything good without Jesus.
We are the branches and He is the vine (root). He is the source of water for the tree. The tree can't live without water.
But some trees refuse to bear fruit, even when Jesus is watering and fertilizing them.

Is it Jesus's fault the tree refuses to bear fruit? Some like to put the blame on God for this.

Bethel · Oct 19, 2022

B-A-C said:
And what was that gospel that was preached?

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Rev 2:26; 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;

Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:44; "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I guess James was a Heretic.

The Gospel came from Paul., not from James.

Paul was given it by Jesus......and he gave it to the apostles, in Acts 15.

Paul said the Gospel is this...>"The Gospel of the GRACE of God"... "Justification by FAITH.... "Faith is counted as Righteousness"... "Abraham is the father of our FAITH.... See all that? = Paul calls all that "MY Gospel" 3x in the New Testament.

So, your gospel, is not Paul's... = so you have a big problem, as your gospel has NO CROSS OF CHRIST IN IT.... BAC.

Your Gospel...........HAS NO CROSS IN IT.....No Blood and Death of Jesus in it......so, your Gospel is not THE Gospel....... Your LEGALISM is a false Gospel and you are this... Galatians 1:8..... according to YOUR Gospel.

B-A-C · Oct 19, 2022

Getting saved doesn't cost anything. You don't have to do anything but believe.
Staying saved, has a cost.

Luke 14:25; Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,
Luke 14:26; "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:27; "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:28; "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
Luke 14:29; "Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
Luke 14:30; saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'

Who carries your cross? Jesus or yourself?

1Pet 1:6; In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pet 1:8; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
1Pet 1:9; obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

At some point, your faith will be tested. You will have to prove your faith through some test or trial.
The outcome of this test (there are really many of tests over and over again throughout life) is salvation for your soul (or not as the results may be).

B-A-C · Oct 19, 2022

Bethel said:
The Gospel came from Paul., not from James.

I see, so unless Paul wrote it, it doesn't apply? It must be nice to be able to pick and choose which parts of the Bible you like, and which parts you don't.
Do you know what the first 4 books of the New Testament are called? The Gospels. Paul isn't mentioned in any of them.

Bethel · Oct 19, 2022

B-A-C said:
Getting saved doesn't cost anything. You don't have to do anything but believe.
Staying saved, has a cost.

Yes,

"staying saved" has a Cost.

Its the Cross of Christ. It COST Him his > BLOOD < and His LIFE to save us and keep us saved.

Twistie · Oct 19, 2022

Bethel said:
James says that faith is dead without works, but Heretics rewrite the verse to say : SALVATION is lost without works, .....and that is a Cross Denying, Grace Rejecting LIE written by deceivers who are teaching that The Blood and Death of Christ is only as good as they are......

= Galatians 1:8

How much Faith does one have if no works r involved
How can one say they r filled with He who is Good n Love n not do nothing?
It is written tell the righteous it will b well with them the Righteous do what is right n good

Twistie

Bethel · Oct 19, 2022

Twistie said:
How much Faith does one have if no works r involved
How can one say they r filled with He who is Good n Love n not do nothing?
It is written tell the righteous it will b well with them the Righteous do what is right n good

Twistie

Salvation, ... This is God offering Christ on the Cross to SINNERS.............SINNERS.......so, how much "good works" did they do so that god would SAVE THEM or you, or me, or any of us? = ZERO

as all we have to offer God.... is :

A.) A lifetime of SIN.

Understand?

So, what you are talking about is DISCIPLESHIP:...........That is not Jesus on the Cross dying for you Twistle...

Do you see?

We do our good works AFTER God has given us HIS Salvation.. We dont do it before, and we dont do them to become saved, as we go to the Cross, as SINNERS..

See it?

There are no WORKS we can offer God.. All we have is a lifetime of SINNING to offer God, and He FORGIVES IT ALL.. with the Blood and Death of JESUS = THE CROSS......that is the PURPOSE OF JESUS ON IT.

See it?

THEN
THEN..

AFTER God has saved us, and forgiven us......we THEN "present our bodies as a living sacrifice".... = We then do those Works for God......but not to be saved, or to stay saved......but because WE ARE Saved..

See it?

Welcome!

Are we saved by our own efforts or are we saved by God's efforts ?

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