PloughBoy said:

Who do think you is, If your mission is or was to convert me into your ways. You lost before you began. I been this way for over 30 plus years and over 44 year

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You wrote this same biography to me.
Is this this your "go to" when you can't deal with the questions?

Bethel said:

You wrote this same biography to me.
Is this this your "go to" when you can't deal with the questions?

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Comment on the Thread or move on. And I am being nice.

“Just because Jesus said FATHER forgive them does not mean The FATHER will Forgive them”

PloughBoy said:

Comment on the Thread or move on. And I am being nice.

“Just because Jesus said FATHER forgive them does not mean The FATHER will Forgive them”

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Let me talk about God as Christ on the Cross.

The blood of Jesus, is God's Blood, as God became a Virgin Born man and Hung on a "tree", and the bible says that "cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree".

The CURSE, is that Christ "became sin".... "under the law"....for the world, John 3:16. so that all who will come to the Cross, seeking Christ as their personal Savior, shall become "made righteous".

Jesus said....>"if i be Lifted UP.......i will draw ALL men to me".

"All that call the name of the Lord , shall be saved".

When Jesus said, "Father forgive them"....... He being God, manifested in the Flesh, 1 Timothy 3:16. was certain to have His request, honored.

Bethel said:

So, you are 40 yrs into Calvin, and im Seminary Trained and teach all over the world.

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Why seminary?

Bethel said:

Yet, you dont know anything about the personal life of the man whose doctrine you feel is what you need to tell me about, and this forum about.
See, im not the one strangled by "limited atonement" heresy that you wanted to share on this Forum.
Remember. ??

So, you are 40 yrs into Calvin, and im Seminary Trained and teach all over the world.
Anything else you need to compare?

As i said, just find out about this person, and that will hopefully help you to see the Light.

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Yep, and:

So what’s new?

Samson2020 said:

Why seminary?

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In Florida.

How about you?

Bethel said:

In Florida.

How about you?

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1 Jo2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things,
and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

Holy Ghost school.

Lord spoke to me through my asleep wife to my external ear. I was told to read Jeremiah 33:3 but as it was 3:33 in the morning I didn't want to get up. I was chastised by Him
saying to me through her, "Your not doing what I told you to do." she resettled and never woke and does not remember that incident.

Needless to say I got up and read it. It states:

Call unto Me and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things which thou knowest not. Well I did call and He responded with a solid couple yrs of nearly 24/7
schooling in the word through the Holy Ghost. Like Paul I was not schooled by a man, just as is spoken of by John in 2:26-27. It has been a very exciting ride to have the
Spirit of God teaching His son what He is up to.

Most that attend seminary are indeed indoctrinated with mans concept of what God is up to, especially the Catholics. Alone with the Lord is the only way to come into the
knowledge of the truth, and truly understand. And this does assume that one has been given the Holy Ghost. Without Him you will never know.

PloughBoy said:

34But Jesus was saying, “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.” And they cast lots, dividing up His garments among themselves.35And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.”

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Samson2020 said:

I would conclude that the sin against Jesus was the sin that He was asking the Father to forgive them of. And since these are Jesus' words given Him to say by the Father these
are the Fathers words. After all God was in Christ Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself Not imputing their trespasses unto them.

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This request to the Father to forgive them and this verse below may be grounds for why no one should blame the Jews for crucifying Him.

John 10: 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Matthew 20: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

One may discern that in Acts 2, that these may be the very Jews that were in the mob that had chosen to crucify Jesus in unbelief.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since they cannot come to the Son unless the Father has drawn them to reveal His Son to them so they can believe in him and be saved, I can see why Jesus asking the Father for forgiveness may be necessary so He would do that.

John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

It may also be necessary for Jesus to ask that of the Father to set the example for when we suffer grief wrongfully.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

There is more than one way to apply what Jesus has done in asking the Father to forgive the Jews at His crucifixion, but according to these scriptures, it sure looks like the Father did forgive them.

Samson2020 said:

1
Spirit of God teaching His son what He is up to.
Most that attend seminary are indeed indoctrinated with mans concept of what God is up to, especially the Catholics.

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-

My view on "seminary" is that its useful, especially if the school is deep into "manuscript evidence" and "evangelism"..,
If the school is mostly just.....>"denominational indoctrination", then you would only be going there for that reason anyway.....because its your "denomination", and once you see yourself as your denomination.......vs being a Christian, then you are already ruined.

Here is what i mean, Samson2020.

Lets say someone walks up to you in a Mall................a stranger, and they say........>"are you a Christian"........and you respond......"yes, im a Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Calvinist"....

See all that?
If that comes out of your mouth first, then just park your discipleship and go fishing, as you are already useless to God.

Here is an update for you....... There are no denominations in Heaven.........as these are all man made for EARTH.

God has one church, and its the "Body of Christ", and that one is not a denomination.

And if you dont understand what im showing you, and that person is YOU in the Mall, then you will certainly not be able to understand what i mean when i told you that i am not a "most".....as you described : "most who go to seminary".

Here is what i am..

Pauline Theology.

Look that up, and you will find me there.

---

If Jesus said he only speaks the words he hears from his Father, then it was the Fathers will to forgive those to whom Jesus spoke too.

GodB4Us said:

This request to the Father to forgive them and this verse below may be grounds for why no one should blame the Jews for crucifying Him.

John 10: 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Matthew 20: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

One may discern that in Acts 2, that these may be the very Jews that were in the mob that had chosen to crucify Jesus in unbelief.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Since they cannot come to the Son unless the Father has drawn them to reveal His Son to them so they can believe in him and be saved, I can see why Jesus asking the Father for forgiveness may be necessary so He would do that.

John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

It may also be necessary for Jesus to ask that of the Father to set the example for when we suffer grief wrongfully.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

There is more than one way to apply what Jesus has done in asking the Father to forgive the Jews at His crucifixion, but according to these scriptures, it sure looks like the Father did forgive them.

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Of course this is a Thread Room of Discussion. So speculations, theological thoughts and assumptions, one’s opinions are faith game.

10And the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.

Bethel said:

Im not "Most".

My view on "seminary" is that its useful, especially if the school is deep into "manuscript evidence" and "evangelism"..,
If the school is mostly just.....>"denominational indoctrination", then you would only be going there for that reason anyway.....because its your "denomination", and once you see yourself as your denomination.......vs being a Christian, then you are already ruined.

Here is what i mean, Samson2020.

Lets say someone walks up to you in a Mall................a stranger, and they say........>"are you a Christian"........and you respond......"yes, im a Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Calvinist"....

See all that?
If that comes out of your mouth first, then just park your discipleship and go fishing, as you are already useless to God.

And if you dont understand what im showing you, and that person is YOU, then you will certainly not be able to understand what i mean when i told you that i am not a "most".....as you described "most who go to seminary".

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Indeed I used "most" on purpose for I do not know you. I am of no denomination, and my answer to the hypothetical question would be "Yes, what can I help you understand?"

Your seminary wasn't RHB by chance? Not that I have anything against him but just curious.

seminaries and universities and higher education teaches you the Discipline to spend the time in studying on your own. And depends on whether it is a particular skill is to be needed. In the field of discipline you have chosen.
I ought to know a house full of Doctors, Ph.Ds in all kinds of fields From music, Mathematics, Physics, Heart Soecialist,Dentist, OB-GYN, Chemistry Professors, Theologians, Doctors of Divinity, from Harvard, Yale, Brown, U of M, Howard, Hampton, and “Albert Einstein of Medicine “,

in my house no Professional baseball, basketball, stock car and such is heard there.
Snow Skiing, Roller Skating, Tennis, Hiking, Racketball, Lacrosse, Karate, Bally Total Fitness, Lap Swimming, worldwide travel, Africa, Europe, Japan, Mexico, Canada, The Rockies, these events was demanded by wife and practice. And I am to old to remember every thing else we had to do. That Is why I do not go no where today, I am worn out! I been to every state in the USA except: Oregon, Idaho, I missed “Hawaii” but the wife didn’t. And I do not go on “Curise ships” but the kids and wife do, I cannot count the times they have, before my youngest kids were 8 they had more flight time than Superman!

so higher Education is and has been the talk in my house. And dime colleges are not mention. Your divinity degree do not mean nothing in my house unless it is “ivy leaque” or “HBCU”.

When you are surrounded by Lawyers, Doctors, college Professors, Dentists, Teachers, Theologians Pastors, for Almost 50 years. On a daily basis.
And at night your wife is telling what university her friends son, daughter or grand kids has excepted in.
you better listen. You know every “Ivy League” in The World!

Christian woman alright. I wish I had married a slave girl from a way off island.

Curtis said:

If Jesus said he only speaks the words he hears from his Father, then it was the Fathers will to forgive those to whom Jesus spoke too.

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GOD.....is Jesus on the Cross., dying for the sin of the World.

JESUS>........Is God become one of us, as Virgin born, come from heaven to die for All of us..

Curtis said:

If Jesus said he only speaks the words he hears from his Father, then it was the Fathers will to forgive those to whom Jesus spoke too.

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What you are doing is called “Eisegesis”.

Bethel said:

GOD.....is Jesus on the Cross., dying for the sin of the World.

JESUS>........Is God become one of us, as Virgin born, come from heaven to die for All of us..

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Right out of the Catholic handbook. And as Mary is the mother of Jesus she was also the mother of God and must also be seen as intercessor and worshiped (Queen of Heaven).
How many hail marys have been said and rosary beads have been sold under this false concept I'm afraid to know.



Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, HEAR THESE WORDS; Jesus of Nazareth A MAN, approved of God by miracles, wonders, and signs..........
Acts 2:36 Therefore let ALL the house of Israel know assuredly, that GOD HATH MADE THAT SAME JESUS, whom ye have crucified, BOTH Lord AND Christ.




Now not to belabor the point but nowhere does it say that God made Himself Lord and Christ. God is the LORD, Jesus is the Lord of lords, and when all enemies have been put
under Jesus' feet, by the Father, the kingdom returns to the Father who is over ALL including Jesus. 1 Co 15:27

This man Peter who said these words was a primary witness of Jesus. Do you really think that the beginning of the reconciliation and giving of the Holy Ghost began with a lie?
After all there were nearly 3,000 souls were added to them because of that statement that very same day.
Did God misunderstand Peter?

PloughBoy said:

What you are doing is called “Eisegesis”.

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John 12:49-50

Samson2020 said:

Right out of the Catholic handbook.

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Im not a Catholic.
Are you?

Catholics Teach that Mary is the Queen of Heaven. The Bible teaches that she is "blessed among women,"....but it does not teach that she is blessed ABOVE them....

Now...

Here is how you know that Jesus is God........ I can post more, but these should do it for you in case you ever teach a sunday school lesson.

1.) God was manifested in the FLESH.........That Jesus. 1 Timothy 3:16

2.) Jesus said....."before Abraham was..... I AM....... And Jesus said....."I AM the way the truth and the life"..........And Jesus said....."I AM the resurrection and the life'.

Now see the "I AM".....?? Well, that is who and how God described Himself to Moses when He spoke to Moses from the Burning Bush. He told Moses....."I AM... that.....I AM".......And Jesus said He is also.
= Believe it.

3.) Thomas said.......... "My Lord and my GOD".........upon seeing Jesus for the first time after Jesus rose from the Dead.

4.) John 1:10........... This verse says that JESUS created the World. (Earth).

5.) Colossians 1:16........Says that JESUS.....is the Creator, and its by His continuing Godhead power that all things exist and continue.


So, see that, Samson2020?.......Thats your New Testament...... teaching you that JESUS is God.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
Heb 1:7 Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
Heb 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

God the Father calls his Son God, God the Son calls his Father God.