Exposing!! The Corrupt Counterfeit (NIV) Bible, Verses That Have Been Tampered With!!

Admon Mikha'el said:

I'm not interested in making you eat your words...I'm not interested in making you look liike a fool. What I just said is enough. I think the verse means what it says.

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Like I said, you are afraid, which is why you refuse to answer the questions. Duly noted.

You don't want to be shown that you don't know what you are talking about. So be it. So you should not question what other people who know what they are talking about say if you are just going to blow wind. It doesn't make you look very...studied.

And note this, "it means what it says" does not answer the question. As I said to you before, I can take five people into a room, give them paper and pen and a verse (this is your verse) and ask them to write down what they think the verse means, and I will get up to five different interpretations. Contrary to the obtuse answer you gave before, all five of them will not be from the Holy Spirit's 'giving,' now will they.

Blessings.

Shaolin said:

Like I said, you are afraid, which is why you refuse to answer the questions. Duly noted.

You don't want to be shown that you don't know what you are talking about. So be it. So you should not question what other people who know what they are talking about say if you are just going to blow wind. It doesn't make you look very...studied.

And note this, "it means what it says" does not answer the question. As I said to you before, I can take five people into a room, give them paper and pen and a verse (this is your verse) and ask them to write down what they think the verse means, and I will get up to five different interpretations. Contrary to the obtuse answer you gave before, all five of them will not be from the Holy Spirit's 'giving,' now will they.

Blessings.

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Oh So you want to make a fool of me? Why would you want that?

Admon Mikha'el said:

Oh So you want to make a fool of me? Why would you want that?

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Your tactics lack any real stability. I see that you are only 37, probably without much life experience, so that figures. I didn't say I wanted to make a fool out of you, I gave you a challenge to demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about, and you ignore it and try to make a tactical retreat. Just admit that you are wrong, that you don't know what you are talking about, and change your attitude towards the facts of the situation. In other words, quite being a bias defender and be a truth seeker. Bias defenders' chances of making it to heaven are almost zero...

Proverbs 12:1
Those who embrace corrective instruction, love true knowledge; but those who hate correction are stupid fools.

Proverbs 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Proverbs 18:17
The first one to voice his side of a contention appears to be correct, until his adversary comes and thoroughly examines his argument according to the facts.

Proverbs 1:5
Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance,

I would council you to be wise with understanding, not those whom the first three address.

Blessings

Shaolin said:

Your tactics lack any real stability. I see that you are only 37, probably without much life experience, so that figures. I didn't say I wanted to make a fool out of you, I gave you a challenge to demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about, and you ignore it and try to make a tactical retreat. Just admit that you are wrong, that you don't know what you are talking about, and change your attitude towards the facts of the situation. In other words, quite being a bias defender and be a truth seeker. Bias defenders' chances of making it to heaven are almost zero...

Proverbs 12:1
Those who embrace corrective instruction, love true knowledge; but those who hate correction are stupid fools.

Proverbs 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Proverbs 18:17
The first one to voice his side of a contention appears to be correct, until his adversary comes and thoroughly examines his argument according to the facts.

Proverbs 1:5
Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance,

I would council you to be wise with understanding, not those whom the first three address.

Blessings

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Just for your edification I never put my real stats or info anywhere on the internet....and just for your info I'm a lot older than you are...I do see what you are doing and your hubrus is very unattractive.....I have no interest in arguing with you as I can see a strong unteachablness in you. We're done

Admon Mikha'el said:

Just for your edification I never put my real stats or info anywhere on the internet....and just for your info I'm a lot older than you are...I do see what you are doing and your hubrus is very unattractive.....I have no interest in arguing with you as I can see a strong unteachablness in you. We're done

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LOL! Yes, we are indeed done...and just FYI, you are trying to call the pot black. Nice try.

I have plenty of edification, and your "hubris" is definitely showing. I am not the unteachable one here. Have a nice day.

seems to me like some folk are stubborn and forgetful

you were asked to interact with kindness and prayer and not have a go at others.

Utterly disgraceful comments being posted on this forum

I suggest a few days vacation might help you to reconsider your attitude to the forums.

Shaolin said:

Job was added ...
Psalms and the prophets .. are added.
Proverbs was added ...
The Gospels were added ...
Acts was added ...
Romans through Jude were added ...
It should be obvious why Revelation was added.

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The question was added by whom...

Shaolin said:

But the original Greek says:

2 Timothy 2:15
Make every effort to stand in the presence of God, an approved, faultless worker correctly handling the Word of Truth.

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Unfortunately I cannot agree with that. τω θεω is not written in the Genitive case to be rendered "of God" but rather in the Dative case, and as such would be written "to God" or "in God".

The text reads - σπουδασον σεαυτον δοκιμον παραστησαι τω θεω εργατην ανεπαισχυντον ορθοτομουντα τον λογον της αληθειας

Perhaps you can give a detailed rendering to support your translation.

Thanks,
Rhema

Rhema said:

Unfortunately I cannot agree with that. τω θεω is not written in the Genitive case to be rendered "of God" but rather in the Dative case, and as such would be written "to God" or "in God".

The text reads - σπουδασον σεαυτον δοκιμον παραστησαι τω θεω εργατην ανεπαισχυντον ορθοτομουντα τον λογον της αληθειας

Perhaps you can give a detailed rendering to support your translation.

Thanks,
Rhema

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None is needed...remember, this is not a word-for-word translation. The dative is clearly indicated by "in the...God." And "in the presence (of) God" is the natural rendering. Remember not to get caught up in a word-for-word thinking in a thought-for-thought rendering.

Blessings.

Rhema said:

The question was added by whom...

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By different people as the epistles were examined for authenticity. I can't tell you the human aspect of names, only that ultimately God had His hand in which books and letters became canon and which were left behind because they were either not authentic, or were not produced by God, through His Spirit, through the hands of chosen vessels.

Br. Bear said:

seems to me like some folk are stubborn and forgetful

you were asked to interact with kindness and prayer and not have a go at others.

Utterly disgraceful comments being posted on this forum

I suggest a few days vacation might help you to reconsider your attitude to the forums.

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Not forgetful or stubborn. When people act like unthinking automatons then they get addressed as such. There was no disgraceful comments posted from my side of the screen, and there is no problem with my attitude here, but there appears to be plenty of problems with the mindsets of many of those who post here...such as they are so possessed by their blind bias that they can't reason clearly about Scriptural truth.

Blessings.

What Does it Mean to Deny Myself and Take Up My Cross Daily? is there anybody out there actually doing this? You judge a tree by its fruit. All I see everywhere I look is bruised and rotten fruit. He who desires to seek Jesus and follow must deny himself and his fleshly desires and thinking, Of course Satan is going to send false bibles, false organised religion, division, chaos and mayhem. And here we are in this forum with people sending the seeds of division. I despair at times. The world is falling apart, I come here to seek the truth seekers, and all I see is the world wrapped in religious dogma. No wonder I have taken up cussing again!!

Gregoryp said:

What Does it Mean to Deny Myself and Take Up My Cross Daily? is there anybody out there actually doing this? You judge a tree by its fruit. All I see everywhere I look is bruised and rotten fruit. He who desires to seek Jesus and follow must deny himself and his fleshly desires and thinking, Of course Satan is going to send false bibles, false organised religion, division, chaos and mayhem. And here we are in this forum with people sending the seeds of division. I despair at times. The world is falling apart, I come here to seek the truth seekers, and all I see is the world wrapped in religious dogma. No wonder I have taken up cussing again!!

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There is a difference between "seeds of division" and God weeding out those imposter and deceived pretending to be Christ followers. And if you have taken up cussing again, I suggest that you have a heart and attitude problem, because followers of Christ don't cuss!!!

Shaolin said:

There is a difference between "seeds of division" and God weeding out those imposter and deceived pretending to be Christ followers. And if you have taken up cussing again, I suggest that you have a heart and attitude problem, because followers of Christ don't cuss!!!

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I have no problem with your post. I too am seeing nothing but pretend christians and following an altered bible. And yes, I must stop calling people sons of motherless goats.

Well first... welcome back.

(Shaolin)
None is needed...

(Rhema)
But one was requested.

Rhema said:

The text (2 Timothy 2:15) reads - σπουδασον σεαυτον δοκιμον παραστησαι τω θεω εργατην ανεπαισχυντον ορθοτομουντα τον λογον της αληθειας

Perhaps you can give a detailed rendering to support your translation.

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Shaolin said:

But the original Greek says:

2 Timothy 2:15
Make every effort to stand in the presence of God, an approved, faultless worker correctly handling the Word of Truth.

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At this point it would be a conjecture to conclude that you think παρίστημι ought be rendered "to stand in the presence." And again, there is no Genitive to indicate that such presence is God's.

Instead I would suggest that A. II. from Liddell Scott (LINK) would give a better rendition, that we study (or make effort) "to set (the divine) before the mind" ; or "to present to God the acceptable". There's no implication of when such would be presented.

I find that your translation (that one is to "make every effort to stand in the presence of God") implies a time frame that one is to somehow achieve or seek God's presence right now (as we are to make this "effort" given that the effort is in the imperative mood).

But it's been so long, the topic is likely moot.

Rhema

Shaolin said:

God had His hand in which books and letters became canon and which were left behind because they were either not authentic, or were not produced by God, through His Spirit, through the hands of chosen vessels.

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The Church of the East, a very early church over which Rome had no influence would disagree with you.

Basically you're saying the canon is a crap shoot, and you hope God was aiming the rifle.

Why would God ensure that the Roman Catholic Church would select the correct canon, and yet NOT ensure that the Roman Catholic Church would preach a gospel that would save souls ??

Rhema

PS: I think one of the questions ignored by the Sons of the Reformation is that no one was saved for roughly 1500 years - except by accident.

Gregoryp said:

I come here to seek the truth seekers,

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You do realize that if they're truth seekers, that means they haven't found it yet.

And in seeking these truth seekers, is this because you believe yourself to be a truth found-er ?

Or are you too still seeking? (And just want company?)

Thanks,
Rhema

Rhema said:

The Church of the East, a very early church over which Rome had no influence would disagree with you.

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Quite possibly.

Basically you're saying the canon is a crap shoot, and you hope God was aiming the rifle.

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No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that God works through people, like He always has, and He had His hand in the picking and choosing the content of what we have today as the Bible.

Why would God ensure that the Roman Catholic Church would select the correct canon, and yet NOT ensure that the Roman Catholic Church would preach a gospel that would save souls ??

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Working through men to bring about His written truth is one thing that was necessary...from that point forward, through various flesh antics, the RCC has cut its own throat on many issues. I stress again...through various flesh antics.

PS: I think one of the questions ignored by the Sons of the Reformation is that no one was saved for roughly 1500 years - except by accident.

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Well, I am not a son of the reformation, and I agree with the second part of your sentence there...I do believe that is why that period of time was called the dark ages of the church...

Blessings.

Rhema said:

Well first... welcome back.

(Shaolin)
None is needed...

(Rhema)
But one was requested.


At this point it would be a conjecture to conclude that you think παρίστημι ought be rendered "to stand in the presence." And again, there is no Genitive to indicate that such presence is God's.

Instead I would suggest that A. II. from Liddell Scott (LINK) would give a better rendition, that we study (or make effort) "to set (the divine) before the mind" ; or "to present to God the acceptable". There's no implication of when such would be presented.

I find that your translation (that one is to "make every effort to stand in the presence of God") implies a time frame that one is to somehow achieve or seek God's presence right now (as we are to make this "effort" given that the effort is in the imperative mood).

But it's been so long, the topic is likely moot.

Rhema

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You may be correct...I will have to go back to the drawing board on this one. That's one reason why I like conversing with someone else who knows the Greek...pointing out where I might have missed something is important to me.

Blessings.

Shaolin said:

Quite possibly.

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I provide a link to the canon of the Church of the East -
Please note their table of contents, so you no longer need to be "possible". Rest assured that the Church of the East would disagree with you about the canon of scripture.

Shaolin said:

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that God works through people, like He always has, and He had His hand in the picking and choosing the content of what we have today as the Bible.

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And upon what basis would you decide that God chose the Roman Catholic Church to "preserve" the canon and NOT the Church of the East ??

And why would God change his mind to have the books labeled "Apocrypha" removed from the King James Bible ??

They were okay by God in 1611 but not in the late 1800's ?? Or was God asleep at the switch and forgot to "hand pick" the books that were published in 1611 ??

To that end, I don't find your argument credible.

And I would note that the Catholic view of the authority of scripture is rather quite different from that of the Sons of the Reformation (meaning the Protestants). When Martin Luther rejected the ecclesiastical authority of the Pope, he needed some sort of surrogate and chose Scripture as the final authority. He wanted James and Revelation removed, but by that time it was too late.

While Martin Luther published (and translated) the Scriptures into German, his intent was to show the common folk that he (Martin Luther) was RIGHT. Instead, it blew up in his face, allowing each person who could read to become his own Pope.

Dr. Luther never thought for one moment that any person could arrive at a different conclusion than he, when reading the same text.

Finally, I do understand the reasons why the Sons of the Reformation (and you've given me no reason to exclude you) preach that we are to be led by scripture, but I find it ironic that this very scriptures disagrees -


The text certainly doesn't say, "For as many as are led by the Word of God (by which most people mean "Scripture" or Bible") they are the sons of God".

Your friendly neighborhood son of God,
Rhema