NO actually I was told the truth by both scripture and through people's testimonies.
Jesus confirmed his word exactly as written through signs and miracles.

Downunder said:

NO actually I was told the truth by both scripture and through people's testimonies.
Jesus confirmed his word exactly as written through signs and miracles.

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Not all, but those who led you, AFTER you came to Christ, Did they tell you, you are suppose to pay "Tithes" did they tell you, you are to obey Pastors, Did they Tell you, That you are to take care a Building called "The Church", Did they tell you that "Calvinism" was of The Devil, DID they tell you there was a "escape clause" from your spouse from "Holy Matrimony" did Pastors take the lead of husbands over a Man's household, and did Wives go behind their husband backs complaining. And The Pastors did not rebuke women from doing so. "Did They led you astray once you came to Christ, or did they take the Place of Christ. In your life! DID you take your problems to Them instead of GOD?
If you did and they did not rebuke you, They became Your 'Idol God"!

"When you 1st came to Christ, did they Tell you Lies Too! Those who led you?"

PS Everyone who 1st. comes into Christ, is "a Baby" unlearn, and easy lead astray for he is only a babe. God's Word Says SO!

Paul Warns his Spiritual Children
"I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me."

I know what I am talking about, And GOD has made me SOUND in This TRUTH!

Thank GOD I know The Dangers, I know The Pits, The Bogs, The Slough of Despond, The Vanity Fairs, and GOD have give me The GIFT to Rescue those who have been captured and have Fell in. He have taught me, to reach down into THE DIRT AND PLACE the SPITTLE in my Hand and Rub The Mud in their eyes!

"The Cost of Discipleship" Behold I will teach you How to be a Fishermen of Men! I didn't know It was going to be like this! Over 44 years, I been on this path. I had no choice. " I chose you, you did not chose ME" One would think, the Path would get easier. "The Stronger The Warrior, The Stronger The Attacks of The Adversary"

"They Told Me Lies, He told me The Truth" I was going to have to Suffer. Broken, abused, lie on, called everything but a "Child of the Living GOD" Puzzle, ashamed, The scum of The earth.

"No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything I have learned from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me,but I chose you. And I appointed you to go andbear fruit— fruit that will remain— so that what ever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you."

"We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body."

I would never chose this life for myself. Only by knowing the outcome would I choose it again. No wonder He told His Disciples, Don't leave Jerusalem and WAIT Until you have Been Empowered from on HIGH!
You need to be empowered By GOD to make this journey, for there is no other way to do it! "Nuclear Power' will not get this job done, you need "Pneumatic Parakletos" or you are not going to make it.

PloughBoy said:

Not all, but those who led you, AFTER you came to Christ, Did they tell you, you are suppose to pay "Tithes" did they tell you, you are to obey Pastors, Did they Tell you, That you are to take care a Building called "The Church", Did they tell you that "Calvinism" was of The Devil, DID they tell you there was a "escape clause" from your spouse from "Holy Matrimony" did Pastors take the lead of husbands over a Man's household, and did Wives go behind their husband backs complaining. And The Pastors did not rebuke women from doing so. "Did They led you astray once you came to Christ, or did they take the Place of Christ. In your life! DID you take your problems to Them instead of GOD?
If you did and they did not rebuke you, They became Your 'Idol God"!

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NO - and certainly not Calvinism as I came to the Lord with a wonderful testimony in a strict Bible obedient Pentecostal church downunder in Oz.

PloughBoy said:

When, The smoke settled, I heard a voice among my tears, "they told you Lies but I told you The TRUTH"! I knew that voice, It was The Voice of GOD, My Father who is in Heaven. He played it back in my mind, my eyes, my ears, and the tones were clearly.l I saw the Words written in His Book, Plainly, Here is the WAY walk in it, but they are more experience than me, But these are christians and they seems so blessed. And He told me to TRUST his WORD! But Lord, they say I am wrong, I don't have enough experience. But you told me to TRUST you and forget and pay no attention those call themselves christians, But you didn't believe me, they had more power over you than my WORD. I cried and I cried, then I heard a voice, "what are you crying for," I reply; they have mess me up, they set a Trap for me. And I fell into it. Now I am messed-up. Broken and Beyond repaid, and they laugh at me, and I thought they was My Brothers in Sisters in Christ. When I stumble and fell, they all put their foot on me! the very ones who cause me to "Stumble" for I trusted them.

And I heard His voice again, "why are you crying", my reply, 'what do you mean, why am I crying, don't you see this mess I have gotten myself into!

His reply: What mess, I don't see a mess. My reply was: This Mess, you cannot get me out of this mess! His reply again: I don't see a mess. MY reply again: How can you get me Out of this MESS? His reply: "BECAUSE AM GOD" AND the way he said it! It went through out my WHOLE BEING,, Like I was hearing it From THE Foundations of The World clear into "Eternity"! When I got over that, in those woods, It dawn on me, 'I had been Taking to GOD"! And Didn't even realize it, until The conversation was over.

I have heard The Voice of Jesus, I have seen His face . The Blood that have run down His face, in a vision, upon the time of my "conversion" and have heard Him call my name! And I believe, I have had a "Conversation with GOD the Father' and each Time The SPIRIT of The Living GOD was Presence.

Then Truths was reveal and open up, Throughout The "Old Testament" it came Alive. And begin to start Speaking to me! I begin to see JESUS through out The Pages, The Written WORD of The OT became The LIVING WORD. And I walked The Streets of Jerusalem. The HOLY CITY, that is mot made by The hands of Men, But the Hands of GOD!

Then I really understood:
"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory".

I can understand why many do not understand, because many have not been there! If you every been there, no one has to tell you, "set your affection on things above"

"Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.” But God has revealed it tous by the Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God."

PS "For these are not The Thoughts of Mortal Men"


New Living Translation (Ezekiel 13).
Instead, they have told lies and made false predictions. They say, ‘This message is from the LORD,’ even though the LORD never sent them. And yet they expect him to fulfill their prophecies!

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Did you hear Him? Did He reveal His Name to you? Who is The Son and who is The Father? Who do you say jesus is?

Downunder said:

NO - and certainly not Calvinism as I came to the Lord with a wonderful testimony in a strict Bible obedient Pentecostal church downunder in Oz.

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Excellent that is good.

For me I was not in a church and I was not lead by anyone to Christ. Of course as a kid I got Baptize around 8 years old, so I could sing in the kids Choir. LOL , because i heard them singing at once. But I was at work around at 26 years of age. But for the last year or so, before then, i felt that i was changing, I learn the 23 Psalms in the Boy Scouts. i found myself everyday for some reason, Repeating it that year before I began my shift at my employment. I did hear a guy talking about the That He wanted the Holy Spirit. I would read a little New Testament by myself at work, but no one knew what I was changing but me. A Older Guy caught me reading that little New Testament, Then after I got The Holy Spirit in large bay, Isolated place at work when I was smoking "Columbia Gold" Weed. I had it in my fingers, by myself, I told GOD looking at that Joint in my Hand, If you give me something Better than this, I will serve you, Then all of "Sudden" i went into a trance, I saw Jesus on the Cross and He call my name, Chris, I died for you, His face was sad, The Thorns on His Head, The Blood running down His Face and coming out of the in corners of His eyes, The scars upon His face. It broke my Heart, And i told him no, don't die for me. Then it happen My chest crack open, The Holy SPIRIT covered me from the top of my HEAD AND COVER MY WHOLE SOUL! And I was on FIRE! With a loud voice Proclaiming JESUS at
work all day! then That old guy told me His little Sunday School class of Little kids had been praying for me. Then maybe about a Week or so, The Holy Spirit was growing it seems to "Powerful" for me to take it. I thought i was going to explode, So i went to see my mother, who was saved as a kid, And I ask her what was wrong with me. In that week I read the Whole from front to back within 5 days, missing not one word. My wife thought i had went crazy. So when I went to speak to my mother. I was about to exploded, she called her pastor, and I went to see Him at His home right then, He just told me to talk, I ask How did a know all these words that is written in the Bible and I never read it before. He got so high on the Spirit his eye got Blood shot red! He kept saying OH, OH, OH, He was getting drunk on the SPIRIT, I was talking so fast and Full, He had to tell me to stop and BREATHE, BREATHE, BREATHE! LOL! I REMEMBER HIM SAYING A "SPIRITUAL MAN", I DIDN'T know what that meant. Then He told me to go on That He couldn't teach me, that GOD would. He said go ahead that i would see. After that He said Sunday morning would do me no good. So He presented me to The Counsel of about 300 Pastors. and my church services was TUESDAY Mornings, close sessions of only Ministers and Pastors only. In Three years I was giving "Lectures" Preaching, TEACHing Sunday school to Minister and Pastors on Tuesday Mornings, Educated, Seminary GRADS, HARVARD, YALE, DALLAS THEOLOGICAL. AND MANY MORE. Normally it took about three years for anyone to speak. in any session. I was doing about 3 sessions a year. and Taught a session at one The Conference on The National Level.
Could you image how Terrorize I was. With no instructor, Then Latter i went to Bible College, Then I learn that they were "Theological" Terms of the Things I went through. You mean it is name for that! Greek, a Hebrew name for that! I was green as "Advocado" LOL, I step over into "Reformed Theology" I was a Calvinist before I even heard His Name! People was calling me a Calvinist before i even knew what that meant or what it was!

So I read the life story of "John Calvin" and a whole host of Reformers, Wycliff, Hus, Knox, Luthers, Augustine, and many more. Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Mary the Queen of Scots, Queen Isabella of Spain book after Book, Roman Empires, The Caesars, and even read about their mothers. LOL The Popes, The Greek Alexander the Great. The Persian Kings, To tracing down That Protestant Church Movement and how it came into existence and all of ITS HARDSHIPS TO COME INTO BEING. I STUDY THE LIFE OF KING HENRY THE 8 and his wives. especially Anne Boleyn, Catherine of Aragon and Jane Seymour, remember He is the King that Burn and strangle, "William Tyndale" for translating The Bible into the English Common Language. "ScandAL after SCANDAL"! to get that Word to the Common People! Mistresses, women of the night, Moabites, Jericho lites, Rogues, and the list goes on, Finally it got to your Table. It is a interesting story, From Genesis to your Table. And was no hop skip and jump! Years of study to trace that path. And those "Reformers" especially that "John KNOX" He had a broad Sword on His side, Queen Mary, was scared that Dude, he would make her cry, "REPENT" we ain't having that Catholic stuff here! LOL and Luther he would cuss you out! and back it up! Those was some bad dudes, they would end up in Prison some times. Most of them died violent deaths. LOL And old lady "Jenny Geddes" in Scotland thew her Green stool at a Catholic Priest at church, stated a "Civil WAR" He Had To Dunk! She said my ears ain't taken it! You see in Scotland everybody had to bring their own chair to church. Yes she is in "The Reformation History Book"! Those Reformers they were real about their Faith! Get the Trinty wrong, it would cost you your life! Cut your head off! and then Burn you up, bury you and 20 years later dig your body back up and cast your ashes in THE Rhine River Yes they would. Those christians cut you open and fed you to the dogs, auguring about who saved and who ain't. LOL

Those years of reading was the most enjoyable years concerning and relating to the 'Biblical text" that was always, prevalent in the "Reformation' writings.
of men STANDING ON THE WORD OF GOD! WITH BOLDNESS. IN THE FACE OF DEATH.

JMV said:

Did you hear Him? Did He reveal His Name to you? Who is The Son and who is The Father? Who do you say jesus is?

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I was not in a church i had no church leader, no church pastor or Teachers. i knew no church words no Theological terms. I was like a baby drop on a door step with a Bottle in his mouth! that stuff you talking about didn't matter nor did i know such conversations even took place! LOL! 1st I thought it was The Weed. Until I said Jesus, Then the Higher i would Get, I say Jesus HE would Hit me again, I say Jesus The Spirit would Hit me Again. I was so high in THE Holy Ghost i was Staggering like a Dunk MAN! Hollering Jesus! The Superintend told everybody to leave me alone, That boy have found Jesus! All day at Work I did nothing but talk about JESUS! Lucky they didn't lock me up!

@PloughBoy, your testimony is very close to mine, being gathered up by God at a young age, being seperated from organised religion, lots of time in self isolation with the Lord. I did stray thanks to a woman who in hindsight has the jezebel spirit. I finally returned wholly back in 2012. Stronger than ever. I also relate to the holy spirits power being overwhelming at times. I have a personal relationship with Jesus and am blessed with his presence, we talk a lot! I know by his energy I feel when he is listening or is pleased when I say or do something that pleases him. We have a very strong bond. Oh, and I am also required to do something physical as well, to demonstrate my separation from the world and its desires, and who I belong to. (This thing I will not share on social media as you never cast your pearls before swine) As an aside, you will rarely find true christians in organised religion, all of them are satans stronghold. we are a rare breed.

Wow talk about putting tickets on yourself.

JMV said:

Did you hear Him? Did He reveal His Name to you? Who is The Son and who is The Father? Who do you say jesus is?

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I was about ten years into my conversion at this time of events of my Spiritual Walk going through the "Dark Night of The SOUL" in which "John Cross" book concerning it does it no Justice. For one cannot describe "The Dark Night of The Soul" that walk was about 3 to 4 years. One cannot really explain that journey, many try, But it is in explainable and those who claim they can, have not been through it but they think they have. GOD the Father just Talks to you. You do not pray, you do not speculate you listen and ponder and you know it is HIM, In that place you have to "Trust" There is nothing but "Trust" because it is DARK and you cannot see. nor with the eyes of Faith. It is darker than The valley of Death. That is the best i can do. on "The dark Night of The Soul", Some experience it, many don't. Some think they have experience it, but you can tell they haven't by the way they try to explain it. There is a valley for every Mountain, the higher the Mountain the Deeper the Valley! If you ever been in The Mountains it gets hard to Breathe, and The Valleys are darker and colder the deeper they are. especially if you are an extremis.

Downunder said:

Wow talk about putting tickets on yourself.

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You have to be careful, Jesus used the word "Wolves" one time, instead of Wolf. Wolves hunt in Packs! And they are Excellent Hunters! And sometimes the "Alpha" Wolf in the Pack is a "female" She will kill you! I have watch "National Geographic". and read my Bible.

Gregoryp said:

@PloughBoy, your testimony is very close to mine, being gathered up by God at a young age, being seperated from organised religion, lots of time in self isolation with the Lord. I did stray thanks to a woman who in hindsight has the jezebel spirit. I finally returned wholly back in 2012. Stronger than ever. I also relate to the holy spirits power being overwhelming at times. I have a personal relationship with Jesus and am blessed with his presence, we talk a lot! I know by his energy I feel when he is listening or is pleased when I say or do something that pleases him. We have a very strong bond. Oh, and I am also required to do something physical as well, to demonstrate my separation from the world and its desires, and who I belong to. (This thing I will not share on social media as you never cast your pearls before swine) As an aside, you will rarely find true christians in organised religion, all of them are satans stronghold. we are a rare breed.

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yes sir.

No one led me.....

I realized that God had been "knocking" for a long time and I finally answered!

I think the main issue here, as with many threads, is that many do not realize how Holy and Powerful God is !

Born Again 2004 said:

No one led me.....

I realized that God had been "knocking" for a long time and I finally answered!

I think the main issue here, as with many threads, is that many do not realize how Holy and Powerful God is !

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But I do understand the "The 5 points of Calvinism" and I did believe those truths before i even heard the words "John Calvin". When i did read His life story, It humble me in my view of GOD. and The 5 points of Calvinism, was living proof, that i was not alone in My belief, about My Salvation, according to "The WORDS of The Living GOD", I am fully persuade, I had no choice in my Salvation and who I am and the color of my skin. It has been determine before the clay was mold what the out come was going to be. It is clear to me, who "The Potter" is, and HIS relationship to "The Clay", not only does HE shapes the Clay, HE also "Creates" the CLAY. And He shapes and molds it, into what HE whats it to be! And The clay does not dictate to "The POTTER" what it wants to be. I am fully persuade of this "Truth" and I am not swayed by every wind and doctrine. For there are many, concerning this "TRUTH".

PloughBoy said:

But I do understand the "The 5 points of Calvinism" and I did believe those truths before i even heard the words "John Calvin". When i did read His life story, It humble me in my view of GOD. and The 5 points of Calvinism, was living proof, that i was not alone in My belief, about My Salvation, according to "The WORDS of The Living GOD", I am fully persuade, I had no choice in my Salvation and who I am and the color of my skin. It has been determine before the clay was mold what the out come was going to be. It is clear to me, who "The Potter" is, and HIS relationship to "The Clay", not only does HE shapes the Clay, HE also "Creates" the CLAY. And He shapes and molds it, into what HE whats it to be! And The clay does not dictate to "The POTTER" what it wants to be. I am fully persuade of this "Truth" and I am not swayed by every wind and doctrine. For there are many, concerning this "TRUTH".

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Yet again my friend, Amen to that! This is what i am going through right now. I am arguing with God right now as he seems to be sending me in an odd direction, but no matter how much i disagree , pray against it and fight , here I am exactly where he wants me to be.

PloughBoy said:

But I do understand the "The 5 points of Calvinism" and I did believe those truths before i even heard the words "John Calvin". When i did read His life story, It humble me in my view of GOD. and The 5 points of Calvinism, was living proof, that i was not alone in My belief, about My Salvation, according to "The WORDS of The Living GOD", I am fully persuade, I had no choice in my Salvation and who I am and the color of my skin. It has been determine before the clay was mold what the out come was going to be. It is clear to me, who "The Potter" is, and HIS relationship to "The Clay", not only does HE shapes the Clay, HE also "Creates" the CLAY. And He shapes and molds it, into what HE whats it to be! And The clay does not dictate to "The POTTER" what it wants to be. I am fully persuade of this "Truth" and I am not swayed by every wind and doctrine. For there are many, concerning this "TRUTH".

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O.K. !

PloughBoy said:

When you 1st came to Christ, did they Tell you Lies Too! Those who led you?

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Nope!! there was truth, and my life Changed, and I was CLEAN and my SINS WERE GONE!!! And Although I started out in the Southern Baptist paradigm, There were no really IMPORTANT theological issues, which were not easily shed over the next 58 years. Now rapidly nearing the end of the road, I've got no regrets related to the variations in theology I've been part of over the decades. It is "only theology" after all, and the Lord has led me in my walk all these years.

Bob Carabbio said:

Nope!! there was truth, and my life Changed, and I was CLEAN and my SINS WERE GONE!!! And Although I started out in the Southern Baptist paradigm, There were no really IMPORTANT theological issues, which were not easily shed over the next 58 years. Now rapidly nearing the end of the road, I've got no regrets related to the variations in theology I've been part of over the decades. It is "only theology" after all, and the Lord has led me in my walk all these years.

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I mean after you came to Christ. then became a member of a local church and then they began to teach you. like Telling you the Tithes lies. and and how to be bless by GOD and you had to go to church and all of the other Religious. and Calvinism is this. but taught you "pelagianism and Arminianism" or semi-Arminianism and indoctrinating you their bias Christianity that they favored and they did not tell you the difference in between the systematic studies so that you may decide for your self after had known the Truth of the views. And why the different view points. But indoctrinated you.
That is want i mean. " Little white lies".

Really no church teaches teaches "THEOLOGY"!

They teach christianity and religion. and about their denomination.

For There are different kinds of Theology. now days. most people do not even know what "Theology" is really is.

Now days the devil, since he is the ruler of this world. The prince, the god of this world. He has give many new definitions for the word "Christianity", the word christian, the word Theology, and the word "holy Scripture", and the word church:= circe. For "Etymology" of words is a GOD given. gift. To the Redeem.

PloughBoy said:

I mean after you came to Christ. then became a member of a local church and then they began to teach you. like Telling you the Tithes lies. and and how to be bless by GOD and you had to go to church and all of the other Religious. and Calvinism is this. but taught you "pelagianism and Arminianism" or semi-Arminianism and indoctrinating you their bias Christianity that they favored and they did not tell you the difference in between the systematic studies so that you may decide for your self after had known the Truth of the views. And why the different view points. But indoctrinated you.
That is want i mean. " Little white lies".

Really no church teaches teaches "THEOLOGY"!

They teach christianity and religion. and about their denomination.

For There are different kinds of Theology. now days. most people do not even know what "Theology" is really is.

Now days the devil, since he is the ruler of this world. The prince, the god of this world. He has give many new definitions for the word "Christianity", the word christian, the word Theology, and the word "holy Scripture", and the word church:= circe. For "Etymology" of words is a GOD given. gift. To the Redeem.

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— Most simply put, theology is the study of God. ... Many times it is used very specifically, speaking only about God. This is called “theology ...