Reba1
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Please quote what you believe are the passages showing God is limited or has limited omniscience
What would of happen if the Jews did not Reject Jesus?
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JerryfromMass
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If the Jews did not reject Jesus, they would have become a light to the nations of gentiles, and the gentiles would have looked to the light in Israel for salvation from the God of the universe, which is what YHVH commanded them to be from the time HE chose Abraham. But, since Israel rejected the prophets sent by God, and then they rejected the TRUE LIGHT, the incarnate God - Messiah Yeshua, God decided to temporarily partially blind Israel and pass the torch (The TRUE LUGHT) to the disciples of Jesus and the gentile nations.
Blessings
KingJ
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Sure, as soon as you or Sue explain to me how a God that does not limit His omniscience ''at all'' can still be called ''Holy'' and ''Just''.
Also, don't miss-understand me. Scripture speaks to God choosing to limit His omniscience. Not that He is limited. Big difference.
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JerryfromMass
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sad
, GOD would never have His child walk in ignorance, concerning the "simplicity" of Christ. If only the world with all of it's Christmas merchandise, would display the Truth during The Christmas Holidays, Oh how simple it is, Just proclaim the Truth, just like it is recorded, written, in the Old and Revealed in the New, then maybe, If The "Lord Supper" was only done once a year, "In remembrance how He came to be" Mary's baby, Lived in one place, delivered her baby in another place called "Bethlehem", warn by God, had to go into hiding, secrecy, went and hid in 'EGYPT" After 2 years, GOD called his Son out of Egypt,
(Matthew 2)BSB
So he got up, took the Child and His mother by night, and withdrew to Egypt, where he stayed until the death of Herod. This fulfilled what the Lord had spoken through the prophet:“Out of Egypt I called My Son.” When Herod saw that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was filled with rage. Sending orders, he put to death all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, according to the time he had learned from the Magi.…
American Standard Version (Jeremiah31:15) (Mat.2:18).
"A voice was heard in Ramah, Weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children; And she would not be comforted, because they are not."
Hosea 11:1
When Israel [Yeshua] was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.
(Matthew 2)BSB
After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt. “Get up!” he said. “Take the Child and His mother and go to the land of Israel, for those seeking the Child’s life are now dead.”
So Joseph got up, took the Child and His mother, and went to the land of Israel. But when he learned that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets: “He will be called a Nazarene.”
And the whole region, "There is Nothing Good comes out the town of "NAZARETH"! , For it was "The GHETTO" of The Day! And No body knew that HE was Born in "Bethlehem". For they slip away in the night from Bethlehem and had to hide in "Egypt" for the Child had a bounty on his head. and then GOD gave them the ok, and they slip back after years away, and no one knew in that Jewish town, that Jesus was the "Messiah" Born in "Bethlehem" just like the "Scripture" said. He lived in secret, and was called A "Nazarene". { A Ghetto boy] unlearn, unschooled. hang around with drunks, women of the night. and places His hands on "Lepers" and don't even wash His hands. and He was Called a "Nazarene" can anything good come out of Nazareth"
So since He was from the town of "Nazareth" Then how could he be the "Messiah", we know Him, we know his Mama and His daddy, His Brothers and sisters, we watch Him Grow up. For the Scriptures says: The Messiah will come out of "Bethlehem" Come let us Kill this "Imposter"!
For there are many things, the Jewish people saw, or it would seem, that Jesus of Nazareth did not fit The Messiah of The "Holy Scripture". The Salvation story is plainly written, and reveals all of this TRUTH. to us, and The reason why they did not understand, because They Had no "Revelation" of who HE was. It was impossible for them to recognize who He really was. But on that day of "Pentecost" when all the Jewish people came together from all nations, of many Languages came together to celebrate the passover[The Coming out of Egypt, The Passover]. God sent "The HOLY SPIRIT" upon the Jewish People and sent them throughout the "nations" to "Proclaim" that "JESUS" was The Christ, The Son Of The Living GOD, He is the Messiah! Was their messages, They were The "Witnesses" The First to proclaim the TRUTH about Jesus! An it has Spread Throughout the WORLD, "These JEWS turn the world up side down"! That Jesus is The Messiah! The One that will take alway the Sins of the world.
New International Version (1 John 2:2)
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
Those are the words of a Jewish person
These words are true
, GOD would never have His child walk in ignorance, concerning the "simplicity" of Christ. If only the world with all of it's Christmas merchandise, would display the Truth during The Christmas Holidays, Oh how simple it is, Just proclaim the Truth, just like it is recorded, written, in the Old and Revealed in the New, then maybe, If The "Lord Supper" was only done once a year, "In remembrance how He came to be" Mary's baby, Lived in one place, delivered her baby in another place called "Bethlehem", warn by God, had to go into hiding, secrecy, went and hid in 'EGYPT" After 2 years, GOD called his Son out of Egypt,(Matthew 2)BSB
So he got up, took the Child and His mother by night, and withdrew to Egypt, where he stayed until the death of Herod. This fulfilled what the Lord had spoken through the prophet:“Out of Egypt I called My Son.” When Herod saw that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was filled with rage. Sending orders, he put to death all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, according to the time he had learned from the Magi.…
American Standard Version (Jeremiah31:15) (Mat.2:18).
"A voice was heard in Ramah, Weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children; And she would not be comforted, because they are not."
Hosea 11:1
When Israel [Yeshua] was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.
(Matthew 2)BSB
After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt. “Get up!” he said. “Take the Child and His mother and go to the land of Israel, for those seeking the Child’s life are now dead.”
So Joseph got up, took the Child and His mother, and went to the land of Israel. But when he learned that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets: “He will be called a Nazarene.”
And the whole region, "There is Nothing Good comes out the town of "NAZARETH"! , For it was "The GHETTO" of The Day! And No body knew that HE was Born in "Bethlehem". For they slip away in the night from Bethlehem and had to hide in "Egypt" for the Child had a bounty on his head. and then GOD gave them the ok, and they slip back after years away, and no one knew in that Jewish town, that Jesus was the "Messiah" Born in "Bethlehem" just like the "Scripture" said. He lived in secret, and was called A "Nazarene". { A Ghetto boy] unlearn, unschooled. hang around with drunks, women of the night. and places His hands on "Lepers" and don't even wash His hands. and He was Called a "Nazarene" can anything good come out of Nazareth"
So since He was from the town of "Nazareth" Then how could he be the "Messiah", we know Him, we know his Mama and His daddy, His Brothers and sisters, we watch Him Grow up. For the Scriptures says: The Messiah will come out of "Bethlehem" Come let us Kill this "Imposter"!
For there are many things, the Jewish people saw, or it would seem, that Jesus of Nazareth did not fit The Messiah of The "Holy Scripture". The Salvation story is plainly written, and reveals all of this TRUTH. to us, and The reason why they did not understand, because They Had no "Revelation" of who HE was. It was impossible for them to recognize who He really was. But on that day of "Pentecost" when all the Jewish people came together from all nations, of many Languages came together to celebrate the passover[The Coming out of Egypt, The Passover]. God sent "The HOLY SPIRIT" upon the Jewish People and sent them throughout the "nations" to "Proclaim" that "JESUS" was The Christ, The Son Of The Living GOD, He is the Messiah! Was their messages, They were The "Witnesses" The First to proclaim the TRUTH about Jesus! An it has Spread Throughout the WORLD, "These JEWS turn the world up side down"! That Jesus is The Messiah! The One that will take alway the Sins of the world.
New International Version (1 John 2:2)
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
Those are the words of a Jewish person
These words are true
Reba1
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Do not worry you were really expected to quote what aint there.
Reba1
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The question title of this thread, brings the suggestion that man could over rule God's plan.
PloughBoy
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Jeremiah 10:23
I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not his own; no one who walks directs his own steps.
I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not his own; no one who walks directs his own steps.
KingJ
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There are many scriptures to consider. If you search on my profile you will see I have spoken a lot on this before.
Feel free to open a thread on free will and we can discuss.
Discussion and lateral thought is the issue though. Some Christians are incapable of it and will not grasp that their personal and narrow minded take on scripture may utterly and grossly miss-represent God to the lost.
Unlimited omniscience equates to no true free will. God is good, true free will does exist. As such, limited omniscience has to exist.
God is omnipotent, yet He limits it everytime evil takes place. If you have the IQ to grasp that fact, you can grasp Him limiting His omniscience to uphold what is good / true free will.
KingJ
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Definitely. God is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17. God is impartial Acts 10:34.
God limiting His omniscience to uphold being good is a school of thought from the RCC. One I tend to completely agree with.
Many here will say ''God is all knowing, God is all knowing, God is all knowing...fullstop''. As if a human can grasp God. Prophets who penned scripture grasped God was defined by more then one word. When we add ''good'' Psalm 136:1 to ''omniscience'' we can only arrive at Him limiting His omniscience in His dealings with a highly intelligent creation.
This is why, I eagerly wait for people like Sue and Reba to explain free will when God does not limit His omniscience.
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What would of happen if the Jews did not Reject Jesus?
Hello @Dave M,
How wonderful it is that God knows the end from the beginning. He has fore-knowledge, and knows beforehand the outcome of any action taken on His part. He has a plan and purpose, and will achieve that purpose regardless of what stands in the way of it. He knows men's hearts, and He knows the passage of world affairs, and the strategies of the enemy, and can plan accordingly.
Israel as a nation did reject their Messiah at His first advent, as God knew they would, but a believing remnant were saved according to His will. In a day yet to come they will fulfill all of God's purposes for them. For His will, will be done, all things will be accomplished as He says in His word.
Asking, 'What if?' achieves no purpose, for blindness had to descend upon Israel, for God's purpose to be fulfilled for us. I praise God for His mercy and His grace.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
JerryfromMass
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If God is fair, does everyone gets what they deserve?
Omniscience is all-knowing. What does God not know?
Scripture says that God is omniscient (all knowing) -- omnipotent -- omnipresent = all part of His nature. Attributes.
The prophets who 'penned Scripture' did so because they were inspired by the Holy Spirit as to what to write.
Those are Your thoughts not 'our' thoughts. It is Not a 'we' situation.
Psalm 136:1 "Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever. " Try including the rest of that entire psalm. Everything He ever has done -- the emphasis is on His Mercy enduring forever.
You've also commented about "His dealings with a highly intelligent creation". It's the 'highly intelligent' part that I don't especially agree with. Because that would put You in a position of Being 'highly intelligent'. Over time, you've given the impression that agreeing With you means a person is 'rightly dividing' the Word of God. If 'we' Don't, then 'we' are Not rightly dividing / not correctly understanding the Word of God. That would Sort of put You in the position of being 'highly intelligent' and the rest of us , not so much.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not going to take the time To explain free will Because Nothing is limiting His omniscience. God Does know everything.
You've brought this subject up a few times already -- With the same results. I don't foresee it changing This time. Maybe Reba1 will have something else to say.
And, yes, you Have spoken on this subject a lot.
"their personal and narrow-minded take of Scripture" comment makes you sound a bit arrogant. And, you're referring to me about ' grossly mis-representing God to the lost." I feel that You are doing exactly that. So there won't be any further discussion with me on that subject.
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On Free Will.
Does God command? The answer is YES. Why does God command if man has no free will to break HIS command. Does God forgive those who break HIS commands? The answer is YES. Why do we break HIS command if there is no free will to do so.
Think of the commandment God gave to Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were not immediately physically dead after their sin, spiritually yes, but not physically. Then God showed HIS grace and mercy on Adam and Eve by the shedding of blood and the covering of their shame.
Adam and Eve knew what God had commanded yet they disobeyed HIM. God would not issue a command, and Adam and Eve would not have been able to disobey God's command, if God had not created them with the will necessary to be obedient. We see free will to be disobedient every day: rioters, murderers, rapists, robbers, terrorists, etc. From the beginning, God commanded because HE knew, even though we are created in HIS image and after HIS likeness, that HE created us with the free will to obey and free will to be disobedient.
