B-A-C
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The Last Days of what?
- Thread starter Rossignol
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Yes, I was banned on one site for questioning Philippians 2: 9-11
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
My question was, Since I Cor 12:3 states "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost" - Was the Holy Spirit forcing them to say, Jesus is Lord? And if so, How would that be "to the glory of God the Father"? Sounds like more to his Vindication.
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Greetings @Rossignol
We do not accept Universalism as Biblical truth.
That doesn't necessarily mean a member will be banned but may do if the doctrine was pushed.
That seems to be a prevailing sentiment on christian forums these days. I've watched many universalist's banned on other forums too, they seem sincere yet met with hostility and harassment.
What is so threatening about believing Jesus is the savior of the world?
I don't get it.
B-A-C
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Jesus is the Savior of everyone in the world who believes Him, accepts Him, repents and obeys Him, and is Born again.
The Holy Spirit caused a number of unsaved people in he Bible to say things. You might want to read the commentary on this verse in the thread "The 7 most sobering passages in the Bible".
There is an entire thread on people who have the Holy Spirit but still aren't saved.
The vindication and the glory of the Lord are sometimes one and the same. There is a recent thread about this as well.
But the bottom line is, there are many verses that say some people won't be saved. Even some people who think they are.
There are more warning verses written to Christians in the Bible, than there are Salvation verses written to people who aren't saved yet.
The very fact that the Bible has verses telling us how to be saved, is proof that if you don't do these things, you won't be.
Universalists typically cherry pick parts of verses taken out of context, but the Bible has to agree with the entire Bible.
No valid doctrine can contradict some or the majority of other scriptures.
So those confessing "Jesus is Lord", is not really to the Glory of the Father, but rather to his Vindication - Kinda like, "I told you so, now before I send you off to be tortured for eternity, I will cause you to disingenuously say, "Jesus is Lord", - - then BAM!! off to eternal flames to thrive in agony and torment endlessly?
How do you feel about Jesus "spewing out lukewarm christians" from Revelation 3:16?
Does that mean he will discard them forever? - to be tormented throughout the endless horizons of eternity?
B-A-C
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This is one of those "warning verses" I mentioned above, about people who "think" they are saved.
If the Bible says it will happen, it will happen.
My question was clear about the "spewing" - there are many lukewarm christians, they're spirit was saved but their soul is unregenerated; no fire, no glory, just the 'abomination of desolation'. So does this spewing mean forever damnation - into the endless blackness of darkness?
B-A-C
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Yes. There are only two destinations. With the Lord or the Lake of Fire.
Is the Lake of Fire the same as Gehenna Fire in Mark 9?
Mark 9:49 states, "All shall be salted with Fire"?
The translators placed the word "Hell" on the greek word Gehenna, which is why I'm wondering.
B-A-C
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You are little confused here. Hades is not the Lake of Fire, and in fact will eventually be cast into the Lake of Fire.
But to answer your question about the verse above, "all" in this verse means all who end up in the place verses 43-48 are speaking of.
Context is everything.
No, I'm not confused but very lucid.
Maybe you have not studied Mark 9. Gehenna is the greek word used in Mark 9 transposed with the word "Hell" - not the greek word Hades, as in Matthew 16:18.
B-A-C
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I have to leave for work in a few minutes, I don't have time this morning to go over the difference between hell and hades.
But you're changing the subject here. The point here is, "all" who are salted by fire, are "all" those who go to hell (or hades if you prefer).
Hades is not mentioned in Mark 9. Hades and Gehenna are two separate dynamics.
Hades is the greek god of the dead.
Gehenna was the burning dump at the south gate of geographical Jerusalem.
B-A-C
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Hell
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Matt 5:29; "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matt 5:30; "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matt 10:28; "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 18:9; "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Matt 23:33; "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
Mark 9:43; "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:45; "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:47; "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
Luke 12:5; "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
Jas 3:6; And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell.
2Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
From Strongs
geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
Hades is not the greek God in the Bible.
Matt 11:23; "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.
Matt 16:18; "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Luke 10:15; "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades!
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Acts 2:27; BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
Acts 2:31; he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.
Rev 1:18; and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
Rev 6:8; I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
From Strongs
hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Matt 5:29; "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matt 5:30; "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matt 10:28; "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt 18:9; "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
Matt 23:15; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Matt 23:33; "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
Mark 9:43; "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:45; "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:47; "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
Luke 12:5; "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!
Jas 3:6; And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell.
2Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
From Strongs
geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12
Hades is not the greek God in the Bible.
Matt 11:23; "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.
Matt 16:18; "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Luke 10:15; "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades!
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Acts 2:27; BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
Acts 2:31; he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.
Rev 1:18; and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
Rev 6:8; I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
From Strongs
hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11
Nice copy and paste there.
So do you think Death and Hell will be incinerated in the Lake of Fire?
I've always wondered how 'Death', an intangible, can be cast into the Lake of Fire.
Probably a more esoteric meaning for spiritual minds.
B-A-C
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Rev 20:14; Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
1Cor 15:25; For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Cor 15:26; The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Cor 15:27; For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is clear that this excludes the Father who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Cor 15:28; When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Once again, if the Bible says it, I believe it.
I assure you for those who have lost loved ones due to sickness, cancer, violence, alcohol, drugs, and even vehicle accidents, death is very tangible to them.
To those lying in hospitals with terminal illnesses, and those who have pets that have died. Death is very tangible to them.
PloughBoy
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The kingdom of GOD and the Kingdom of Heaven, are the same. Made full knowledge of that back in 1977. Back then I ask and made full study on my very own to be sure. My own "Investigative" study concerning the relationship of the two. Simple form, "God has only One Kingdom. In other words, it is a use of the writer words addressed to a certain culture of people. Kingdom of Heaven := Kingdom of GOD. they are the same thing. Stop! No need to add any more leaven unto this lump.
Just for edification, and not argument.
Admon Mikha'el
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Well The answer to your question here is...No. The Holy Spirit does not force you to say it...He shows it to you. A revelaation to you...and You want to say it...Its a wonderful truth.
