Where in the Bible does it teach the imminent return of Christ?

Brother Paul · Jan 23, 2021

Dave M said:
wear in the bible does it teach the imminent return of Christ? I have herd this theory used for a long time, but personally can not find any scripture to back it up, can you show me any scripture to back it up??

thanks

Hey Brother...may the grace and peace of God be upon us all....

So here is the thing. Because of some people's denominational theologies the phrase "he shall come as a thief in the night" overrides all other passages related to the topic making it appear as though he can come at any unexpected moment and catch us off guard. Now understand the motive is pure. It was allegeddly so people would assume an immediate need to be ready and I think this motivation was a good thing. But was it biblical? Well many organizations, denominations, and even cultic groups take one or teo pasages and amplify their importance so much that then one must ignore or re-interpret the many to make it appear tyo agree with their opinion of the one passage. This is really bad hermeneutics! We see this in the JWs use of Isaiah 43:10 and the United Pentacostal church use pof Acts 2:38, and name it and claim its use of Mark 11:23. It is almost aas if the entire rest of Scripture hinges on the main one or two passages they attach importance to. A proper hermeneutic takes into account ALL that the scriptures have to say about a matter and seeks the more common or higher picture that they all TOGETHER paint for us.

Now IMHO I believe that taking into accounmt other passages indicates for us that the "imminenet return" inteerpretation is not correct. For one example we see in the parable of the 10 virgins that they are making ready...anticipating the soon return...and in 1 thesselaonians 5 Paul teaches that we will know but that there are certain things that MUST occur first and he forewarns us. Now the plenary meaning of these and other passages are not to encourage people to take it easy or relax conforming to the Spirit in their lives they are just to tell uis the truth. The "thief in the night" analogy really only should apply to preople of darkness and to actual believers who are asleep at the wheel....here is what Paul says...

"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

KingJ · Jan 25, 2021

Dave M said:
this is flat out wrong, on both accounts. the second coming of the Lord will surprise those that do not know Jesus, he will come like a thief at night.

1 Thessalonians 5:2
For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. (this is for non believers not for believers)

1 Thessalonians 5:4
But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

Matthew 24:36
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. (we may know the season not the day or hour)

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, (the man of lawlessness does not come until midway through tribulation at the great tribulation wich is 3.5 years)

Revelation 13:5
And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months.

You are confusing the rapture with the second coming. Thief in a night is rapture. When all see Him, its the second coming.

Matt 24:30 And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming

KingJ · Jan 25, 2021

Dave M said:
do you have scripture for this, because the there is no one who repents in revelation, and the bible teaches a great falling away at end times a actual rebellion against God

You need to grasp context and timing from scripture.

If you study revelations properly you will find that the second three and half years is when God's plagues / wrath hits earth. This is when scripture says repeatedly after every catastrophe ''they repented not''.

Prior to that, the first three and half years, the anti-christ will round up all who refuse the mark of the beast and put them to death. Whoever endures to the end will be saved.

These are the two scriptures that speak directly to being saved via torture and death. A little common sense is needed to grasp the fact that if God ordains death as ''the salvable'' event, that person not be a Christian to begin with.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

KingJ · Jan 25, 2021

Dave M said:
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, (the man of lawlessness does not come until midway through tribulation at the great tribulation wich is 3.5 years)

Do you have a scripture that supports the 'man of lawlessness' coming 3.5 years into the tribulation.

It is just terribly illogical. The first day the anti-christ has a chance to wage war with Christians, have many be-headed for rejecting his mark and a period in the sun for those who have his mark.....is when the seven trumpets of wrath from God are sounding???

The anti-christ and the wicked who will follow him will be given space and time to wage war and have their 'time in the sun'. This is the first three and a half years. Many scholars have come to this conclusion and it is logical. It makes perfect sense that God give people a chance to choose or reject the mark of the beast before he reigns hell fire down on them.

We will all suffer prior to the tribulation. Fact. Matt 24 explains that. Then Christians are raptured and the anti-christ has his way. Where death / refusal of the mark of the beast and not faith in Jesus is what saves you.

In addition, the significance of the seven years is that it is a promise to the Jews fulfilled. The last weeks promised to them by God via Daniel. A period God gives them full attention. 144 000 chosen preachers and the two witnesses. 12 000 from the 12 tribes of Israel who are sealed by God and preach for the full seven years. Revelation 7:3–8. The world will look to them for guidance on rejecting the anti-christ. Not Holy Spirit filled Christians. The Holy Spirit is the restrainer who is taken, as I have explained in my first post here.

Brother Paul · Jan 25, 2021

KingJ said:
You are confusing the rapture with the second coming. Thief in a night is rapture. When all see Him, its the second coming.

Matt 24:30 And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming

These are the same event according to the Scriptures....when He comes the second time is when

a) the Anti-Christ is consumed with the brightness of His COMING
b) we are gathered along with those who previously died in Christ (who will rise from the dead) to meet Him TOGETHER in the air
c) it is an "apentensis" event meaning He comes all the way to His destination (which the whole Earth will witness

PastorJayAblaze · Jan 25, 2021

B-A-C said:
I'm actually in agreement with the point you make here, but being devil's advocate...

Mat 24:36; "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mat 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Mat 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Mat 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Luk 12:35; "Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit.
Luk 12:36; "Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast, so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks.
Luk 12:37; "Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
Luk 12:38; "Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.
Luk 12:39; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Luk 12:40; "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."

Rev 3:3; 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.

You have to take into account the two separate events you are talking about. The imminent return is what is known as the rapture. The Day of the Lord is what is known as the 2nd coming of Christ. These are 2 separate events not one event. Jesus will return to catch away His bride and then the tribulation will take place. Then after the battle of Armageddon the 2nd coming will take place and Jesus will come back as a conquering King. He will ride on the white horse and have written on His thigh... King of kings and Lord of lords. Every eyes will see Him and all those tribulation saints will be joined with the great cloud of witnesses and we will begin the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. I’ll post some scripture references for this in a little
While.

Brother Paul · Jan 25, 2021

1 Thessaloninas 4:

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord (referring to Matthew 24), that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING (Parousia)of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Thus there is only one second COMING not two...and it is at this time that we shall be caught up (Raptured) not before.....and yes we are not subject to His outpouring because we will be with Him and like Him.....but we will be here until then which means we endure the first half og the Treib during the reign of the Anti-Christ (because he is also consumed at this same event - 2 Thessalonians 2:8 - at the COMING or Parousia).

And whe these things occur every eye shall see it.....(also associated scripturally with the coming (Parousia)....

Dave M · Jan 25, 2021

PastorJayAblaze said:
The Day of the Lord is what is known as the 2nd coming of Christ. These are 2 separate events not one event

that to me does not make any sense at all,,,,,, how can you have the day of the lord if he does not come first,,,,,, first he comes when he arrives that is the day of the Lord one event, I dont see how anyone can interpret that as more than one event. Because they are both talking about Jesus return wich only happens one time.

complete · Jan 25, 2021

Dave M said:
wear in the bible does it teach the imminent return of Christ? I have herd this theory used for a long time, but personally can not find any scripture to back it up, can you show me any scripture to back it up??

thanks

Hello @Dave M,

When I read this, I did not interpret it so much in terms of the expectation of believers at this present time, but in relation to the expectation of those who lived throughout the Acts period, ie., the forty years following the Lord's crucifixion and resurrection. For then the expectation was for Christ's imminent return. However, this depended on the repentance of Israel, as the preaching of Peter in Acts 3:19-21 declares,

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.'

* Throughout Paul's early epistles (1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Hebrews & Romans) and in the general epistles, that expectation was expressed time and again, wasn't it? In fact both of the verses regarding our Lord coming, 'as a thief in the night,' are found in the epistles written during this period: in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 & 2 Peter 3:9-13.

* When the 40 years of probation for Israel came to an end, and the door to repentance had not been entered in by them, Isaiah 6:9-10, ' was quoted for the third time (Matt.13:14-15, John 12:40), this time by Paul in Acts 28:25-27, to the chief Jews, of the diaspora, after they rejected the word of truth concerning the Kingdom and of the Lord Jesus Christ, which Paul had expounded to them from morning till evening, and the curse descended upon Israel, as warned by Paul in Acts 13:40-41:-

'Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets
Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days,
a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.'

* The mystery of Israel's blindness had descended (Romans 11:25-28) .

'For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:
but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.'

*So the coming of the Lord, which necessitated the repentance of Israel, was deferred until a yet future day, and, 'Salvation was sent to the Gentiles' (Acts 28:28), for, said Paul, 'They will hear it'.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

KingJ · Jan 25, 2021

Brother Paul said:
These are the same event according to the Scriptures....when He comes the second time is when

a) the Anti-Christ is consumed with the brightness of His COMING
b) we are gathered along with those who previously died in Christ (who will rise from the dead) to meet Him TOGETHER in the air
c) it is an "apentensis" event meaning He comes all the way to His destination (which the whole Earth will witness

You disagree with me and write support for the second coming? Did you not read my post?

I gave a scripture that said ''all see Him come''. I previously gave a scripture that said ''He is a thief in the night, one is taken and one is left behind''.

There is no '''thief in the night'' if ''all'' see Him coming. Is that not obvious?

Dave M · Jan 25, 2021

Key terms here that Paul uses to describe the same event so we know what to look for. You people are trying to make this confusing it is not confusing.
1. Coming of our Lord
2. Day of the lord
-----------used in the same way to describe the same event

2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.
4 He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

terms here are the used in the same context.

1. Paul tells us clearly what he is writing about the coming of Jesus, when we will be gathered up, this term is also used in Mathew 24 gathering his elect at his second coming

2. Look Paul is using the day of the lord in the exact fashion he was using the coming of our Lord, no way possible are these 2 events different

3. he is warning us not to be taken in by other teachings,

4. now he is telling us exactly what will have to happen first, so we can look out and know the time is near when these things happen

complete · Jan 25, 2021

KingJ said:
Hi Dave. I use these three arguments to support a rapture.

1. Plagues in revelations. Many scriptures of God's plagues on the earth and how after they hit the inhabitants, they repent not. A Christian will repent. Meaning no Christians are on earth for His plagues. The plagues hit after 3.5 years into the tribulation.

2. The rapture of the Holy Spirit. The restrainer. 2 Thess 2:6-8 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed.

Jesus made it crystal clear that He is leaving the Holy Spirit with us so that we will not be alone. It is utterly illogical to have a belief that we will be alone and the Holy Spirit will be raptured without us.

3. Matt 24 explains in amazing detail how the beast will reveal himself and Christians will endure suffering. It then goes on to say the following:

Matt 24:36-40 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

'And now ye know what withholdeth
that he might be revealed in his time.'
(2Thess. 2:6)

Hello @KingJ,

What Scriptural evidence do you have to state that it is the Holy Spirit Who is the restrainer?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Brother Paul · Jan 25, 2021

complete said:
'And now ye know what withholdeth
that he might be revealed in his time.'
(2Thess. 2:6)

Hello @KingJ,

What Scriptural evidence do you have to state that it is the Holy Spirit Who is the restrainer?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I( agree Chris..it cannot be the Holy Spirit because even if the Chruch was not here (which the Bible does not actually teach) people are saved DURING the Anti-Chrost
s part of the trrib...and it takes the Spirit for them to be born of His Spirit (Romans 8:9)

complete · Jan 25, 2021

'And now ye know what withholdeth
that he might be revealed in his time.'
(2 Thess. 2:6)

Hello @Brother Paul,

Someone or something is restraining of keeping in check the revelation of 'the man of sin'.

It is assumed by many that when the 'rapture' takes place that the Holy Spirit departs from the earth, but if that were true, it means that believers such as the faithful Jewish remnant, who will have to live through this dreadful period, are left without the Holy Spirit's aid! Matthew 24:21-22 describes this period as a terrible time. If ever those who determine to be faithful whatever the cost, even life itself, will need the Holy Spirit, it is at such a time.

I do have thoughts on this, but would like to hear what @KingJ has to say in defence of his statement before expressing it.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Dave M · Jan 25, 2021

KingJ said:
You are confusing the rapture with the second coming. Thief in a night is rapture. When all see Him, its the second coming.

they are one in the same event

so here is a question for you, if the church is not present during the tribulation who are the ones in revelation 20 verse 4 who have been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and not worshiping the beast, please use scripture to back up your you answer thanks

KingJ · Jan 26, 2021

complete said:
'And now ye know what withholdeth
that he might be revealed in his time.'
(2Thess. 2:6)

Hello @KingJ,

What Scriptural evidence do you have to state that it is the Holy Spirit Who is the restrainer?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The restrainer is the Holy Spirit because God is personally involved in what takes place on earth.

We see this with Job. God did not ask an angel to interact with the devil on Job.

Jesus restrained the devil in the wilderness. He ended the temptations at three and was only at the mercy of the wicked when ''His time'' had come.

The devil roams around looking for whom he can devour, who decides whom he can devour except for God?

If we look at how God removed the devil from heaven, we see He used an angel. So some can be forgiven for the thought that the restrainer could be an angel. But they miss the full picture. God did not want to get ''hands on'' with removing the devil. For me it points to Him showing respect to the devil. But on earth, the Holy Spirit is literally here. God has shown He wants to be ''hands on'' with us.

Now, one further fact to consider is that the anti-christ is in 100% opposition to the ''job'' of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth. Fact. The Holy Spirit teaches us all about Jesus. Gives mankind a revelation of the ''true Christ''. 1 Cor 12:3 ''Nobody calls Jesus Lord except by the Holy Spirit''.

As such the anti-christ is in direct opposition to the work of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is most definitely the restrainer. Many say the church and saints are, but we are the product of the Holy Spirit at work.

KingJ · Jan 26, 2021

Brother Paul said:
I( agree Chris..it cannot be the Holy Spirit because even if the Chruch was not here (which the Bible does not actually teach) people are saved DURING the Anti-Chrost
s part of the trrib...and it takes the Spirit for them to be born of His Spirit (Romans 8:9)

People are saved during the tribulation, correct. You don't need the Holy Spirit for this.

The salvable event is as a result of your death and or rejection of the mark of the beast.

Matt 24:13 and Rev 2:10 makes that crystal clear. Only if you endure to the end are you saved. Unlike, the current, faith in Jesus being Lord. Which according to 1 Cor 12:3 is the work of the Holy Spirit.

To believe a ''Christian'' has to ''endure to the end to be saved'' is an utter failure of grasping what a Christian is. Many who believe in works based salvation / are anti-OSAS would espouse such.

KingJ · Jan 26, 2021

Dave M said:
they are one in the same event

No Dave, they are not.

The one event is seen by all, the other is not. They are worlds apart. I have no clue how you come to your belief. You, nor BAC have even tried to explain the scripture that speaks directly to a rapture event....

Dave M said:
so here is a question for you, if the church is not present during the tribulation who are the ones in revelation 20 verse 4 who have been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and not worshiping the beast, please use scripture to back up your you answer thanks

Firstly, we need to all understand that Jesus is the only way to the Father. Nobody comes to the Father but by Jesus, fact.

There is a difference in the route to salvation for those living before, compared to those living during the tribulation.

Before the restrainer is removed the route to salvation is via faith in Jesus. A gift from the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3 after true repentance of sin.

During the tribulation the route (to Jesus) is via rejection of the mark of the beast, torture and death Matt 24:13, Rev 2:10. These are the ones mentioned in Rev 20:4 and we see them speak with God in Rev 6:10-11 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

Please, note how each of them are given a white robe after they speak of God avenging their blood.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Please note how the crown of life is dependant on being faithful unto death. This is not the case with Christians and if you think it is, the gospel of Jesus according to Paul has flown over your head.

Dave M · Jan 26, 2021

KingJ said:
There is a difference in the route to salvation for those living before, compared to those living during the tribulation.

do you have
scripture for that

KingJ · Jan 26, 2021

Dave M said:
do you have
scripture for that

Dave are you being serious? Did you not read my post to you?

'' Please note how the crown of life is dependant on being faithful unto death. This is not the case with Christians and if you think it is, the gospel of Jesus according to Paul has flown over your head. ''

Welcome!

Where in the Bible does it teach the imminent return of Christ?

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