Anihilationism

Butch5 · Dec 10, 2020

Admon Mikha'el said:
Do you really want to play with semantics? I don't want to. So, I won't. I really do not have the time. I AM on a really limited time frame.

Why then did you reply? The passages that were posted were from the NT written in Greek

Butch5 · Dec 10, 2020

Primordial Light said:
The entire Bible as you understand it.

Here is #2 -
II Cor 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The question is, do you teach the "word of reconciliation"?

Are you sure you're understanding that passage correctly?

Butch5 · Dec 10, 2020

twcstp111 said:
I'm going to recess this conversation; Anihilationism is among the most useless of conversations.

I will prove it with scripture:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Actually, I don't think it's useless. A lot of unbelievers reject the faith because they can't accept the idea if a god who would torture people forever. If that was what the Bible taught then fine they would have to deal with it. However, if that is not what the Bible teaches then this teaching is pushing people away from God that would otherwise be saved.

Admon Mikha'el · Dec 10, 2020

Butch5 said:
Why then did you reply? The passages that were posted were from the NT written in Greek

If you say so and Whatever

Butch5 · Dec 10, 2020

Admon Mikha'el said:
If you say so and Whatever

Wasn't the NT written in Greek? Aren't Mathew and Revelation in the NT? Am I missing something?

Admon Mikha'el · Dec 10, 2020

Butch5 said:
Wasn't the NT written in Greek? Aren't Mathew and Revelation in the NT? Am I missing something?

You're missing the fact that anihilationism is a totally foolish idea and is a waste of time. Study something biblical instead

Butch5 · Dec 10, 2020

Admon Mikha'el said:
You're missing the fact that anihilationism is a totally foolish idea and is a waste of time. Study something biblical instead

I'm willing to hear your argument for ETC. As for something Biblical, I've studied this subject from the Bible for several years. Where do we find that the wages of sin is eternal conscious torment?

Admon Mikha'el · Dec 10, 2020

Butch5 said:
I'm willing to hear your argument for ETC. As for something Biblical, I've studied this subject from the Bible for several years. Where do we find that the wages of sin is eternal conscious torment?

I am 'blessed' with a disease that affects short term memory....I'm no longer interested in this thread...I'll probably be with the Lord before I'm interested again...if ever

Primordial Light · Dec 10, 2020

Butch5 said:
Are you sure you're understanding that passage correctly?

Once you understand the Abrahamic Covenant, it's a No Brainer.

The question is - Does Butch understand the Abrahamic Covenant?

Primordial Light · Dec 10, 2020

Hi again.

Butch5 · Dec 10, 2020

Primordial Light said:
Once you understand the Abrahamic Covenant, it's a No Brainer.

The question is - Does Butch understand the Abrahamic Covenant?

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the Abrahamic covenant. Are you sure you're understanding that passage correctly?

Primordial Light · Dec 10, 2020

Butch5 said:
Yes, I'm quite familiar with the Abrahamic covenant. Are you sure you're understanding that passage correctly?

Yes, I do, thanks for asking.

Say Butch, what is your favorite passage of the Abrahamic Covenant?

Here is mine, Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Butch5 · Dec 10, 2020

Primordial Light said:
Yes, I do, thanks for asking.

Say Butch, what is your favorite passage of the Abrahamic Covenant?

Here is mine, Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

I probably have a few but this might be tops.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(Gal. 3:16 KJV)

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Gal. 3:29-4:1 KJV)

14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. (Gen. 13:14-17 KJV)

And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.
3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;1
4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.1 (Gen. 28:1-4 KJV)

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Gal. 3:13-14 KJV)

The Abrahamic Covenant is the key to the Christian's hope.

Primordial Light · Dec 10, 2020

Butch5 said:
I probably have a few but this might be tops.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(Gal. 3:16 KJV)

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Gal. 3:29-4:1 KJV)

14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. (Gen. 13:14-17 KJV)

And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.
3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;1
4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.1 (Gen. 28:1-4 KJV)

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Gal. 3:13-14 KJV)

The Abrahamic Covenant is the key to the Christian's hope.

Those are good ones.
Here is another of my fav's, since Jesus shall fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant:
Rev 21:5 BEHOLD, I make ALL THINGS NEW.

Butch5 · Dec 10, 2020

Primordial Light said:
Those are good ones.
Here is another of my fav's, since Jesus shall fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant:
Rev 21:5 BEHOLD, I make ALL THINGS NEW.

It's the restoration that Isaiah and Peter speak of

Primordial Light · Dec 10, 2020

Butch5 said:
It's the restoration that Isaiah and Peter speak of

The "Restoration of ALL THINGS" of Acts 3:21, which is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant spoken of in Acts 3:25 . . .
to keep things in context.

And more than plausible, Romans 11:25-26 too -

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

complete · Dec 11, 2020

Primordial Light said:
You mentioned the "Unbelieving" are not included in Col 1:20.
I remain unpersuaded by your rationale - mainly because it is inconsistant with the Abrahamic Covenant.
Romans 11:32 should then have you rejoicing in the fact that the saving power of God is bigger than you have been taught -

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all".

Hello @Primordial Light,

Thank you for your response. I believe I understand what you are saying concerning Romans 11:32. However, the 'all' of Romans 11:32, is intended to place both Jew and Gentile on a level playing-field, to show that 'all' have sinned and come should of the glory of God, and thereby showing that all need to come to God for forgiveness by the same way, and that is on the basis of the sacrificial work of Christ on their behalf. All have the potential to receive of God's mercy and grace, but not all will, for not all will seek His forgiveness, and receive the salvation of God by faith in His Beloved Son.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

complete · Dec 11, 2020

Primordial Light said:
You mentioned the "Unbelieving" are not included in Col 1:20.
I remain unpersuaded by your rationale - mainly because it is inconsistant with the Abrahamic Covenant.
Romans 11:32 should then have you rejoicing in the fact that the saving power of God is bigger than you have been taught -

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all".

Hello again, @Primordial Light,

Will you please explain the inconsistency you refer to, in relation to the Abrahamic Covenant?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

complete · Dec 11, 2020

Butch5 said:
Hi Chris,
I just don't see how aion or aionios, they're different forms of the same word, can possibly mean eternal when the Scriptures plainly says it ends. By definition something that ends cannot be eternal.

I agree with you that the context will determine the time, however, I think we need to make sure it is the context and not our presuppositions that we're using to determine the time.

Hello @Butch5,

I agree with you that we should beware of allowing our presuppositions to determine it's meaning. The use of the word eternity, appears to be an indefinitely long period, one unplumable by the human mind, but known of God.

* I am happy with the definitions of aion and aionos, and it's usage, that I found in 'The New Englishman's Concordance':-

- an indefinitely long period, of eternity (past or future) as in John 6:51 & John 9:32,
- or of a certain segment of time, an era or age (present or futre) as in Matthew 12:32 or Mark 10:30,
- or can also be used of the material universe as the manifestation of the ages, ie., the aggregate of things contained in time as in Matthew 12:32, Matthew 13:22, and Matthew 24:3, where it is translated 'world'.

* That really covers all it's usage, I feel.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Primordial Light · Dec 11, 2020

complete said:
Hello @Primordial Light,

Thank you for your response. I believe I understand what you are saying concerning Romans 11:32. However, the 'all' of Romans 11:32, is intended to place both Jew and Gentile on a level playing-field, to show that 'all' have sinned and come should of the glory of God, and thereby showing that all need to come to God for forgiveness by the same way, and that is on the basis of the sacrificial work of Christ on their behalf. All have the potential to receive of God's mercy and grace, but not all will, for not all will seek His forgiveness, and receive the salvation of God by faith in His Beloved Son.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Once you factor Rom 9:16 into your theology, the light will go on for you, and it will make you free -
"its NOT of him that willeth or runneth, BUT GOD that shows mercy"

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