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Losing your salvation?

Loyal
A Christian in “NAME” only can lose their salvation it happens every day! To know “about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit” is no guarantee that a person is saved! Only those who “KNOW” God have eternal life!

Jesus said....

John 17:3 And THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE, THAT THEY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of GOD HAS COME AND HAS GIVEN US UNDERSTANDING, SO THAT WE MAY KNOW HIM who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Jesus referred to himself in many different ways, such as “the bread of life”, “the true vine”, “the Son of man who lays down his life.”, “the good shepherd”, and also as a “sower” ect.. (Matt 13:37)

Jesus told his disciples that if they did not understand the parable of the sower, then they will not be able to understand any parable. The parable of the sower is the granddaddy of all parables!!! The parable of the "sower" sets the stage not only for ALL the parables in scripture that Jesus spoke about but also the entire New Testament!!! Get this one wrong, and all of our understanding of what we read about in the New Testament, and what we thought we knew about a brother, or sister losing their salvation will be completely in error!!!

Jesus said.....

Mar 4:13 And he said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? HOW THEN WILL YOU UNDERSTAND ALL THE PARABLES?

This parable was so important for his followers to understand that Jesus did not leave up to them to try, and figure it out on their own, so he explains it to them clearly.

Jesus referred to the Word of God as a “SEED” which must be planted into the soil. Seeds do not produce fruit out of the soil except after a certain time elapses. Fruit is what determines if a person is saved or not! The very first fruit the Word of God produces in a person's life is the “NEW BIRTH

1Pe 1:23 BEING BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible SEED, but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth forever.

Jesus explains....

Mat 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower:
Mat 13:19 When anyone HEARS THE WORD OF THE KINGDOM AND DOES NOT UNDERSTAND IT, THE EVIL ONE COMES AND SNATCHES AWAY WHAT HAS BEEN SOWN IN HIS HEART. This is what was sown along the path. (ESV)

(This first person hears the Word of God, and immediately the evil ones steal the Word out of their heart. They never get saved, and never produce fruit unto salvation.)

Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who HEARS THE WORD AND IMMEDIATELY RECEIVES IT WITH JOY,
Mat 13:21 YET HE HAS NO ROOT IN HIMSELF, BUT ENDURES FOR A WHILE, AND WHEN TRIBULATION OR PERSECUTION ARISES ON ACCOUNT OF THE WORD, IMMEDIATELY HE FALLS AWAY. (ESV)

(This second person hears the Word, receives it with joy, but never allows the Word to take root in himself, and later falls away. Without roots, fruit can never be produced unto salvation. This can be used to describe a person who abides in the vine for a while, but never produces fruit, so he is cut off from the vine.)

Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. (ESV)

(This third person is the scariest of them all. He hears the Word of God, but the cares of this world prevent it from producing fruit unto salvation. Church's are filled to capacity with these kinds of people. They receive the Word, but never get saved, but they think they are!!! Notice: they never fall away, but never get saved either. They are cut off from the vine because they never produced fruit. Have you ever spotted these kinds of people in your church gatherings? There is no joy or peace in their lives, and they look and act just like the world!! They carry Bibles but have no clue what scriptures say or means, but they sure look cool!)

Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who HEARS THE WORD and UNDERSTANDS IT. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty." (ESV)

(The last and final kind of person is the one who HEARS THE WORD OF GOD, UNDERSTANDS IT and PRODUCES FRUIT UNTO SALVATION. He remains in the vine, and produces much fruit. These people are easy to spot within any Church.)

These four kinds of people that Jesus was describing here are typical to those found in every Church.
There is no such thing as a Christian bearing good fruit and then all of a sudden producing no or bad fruit, which is impossible!!

Jesus said.....

Mat 7:18 A GOOD TREE CANNOT BRING FORTH EVIL FRUIT, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM.

(If a good tree can NEVER produce BAD FRUIT as Jesus said here in verse 18, then a tree that produces no fruit or bad fruit, never did produce good fruit at all!!!)

All of the Apostles who wrote to the Church's knew there were many in their congregations to whom they wrote who were not saved, which is why they said many things that were kind of rough for them to hear. Even, Jesus knew that many in the Church's he spoke about in the book of Revelations were not saved, which is why he spoke things in an attempt for them to get right and to make a commitment, which requires a “decision” and to give all of themselves to him for salvation.

Faith which comes from the seed of the Word God always gives faith so that they can gain ACCESS to GRACE by which one is saved to the person who has decided he wants it!!

Eph 2:8 For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also WE HAVE ACCESS BY FAITH INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Who are the people who overcome this world?

1John 5:4 For EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN BORN OF GOD OVERCOMES THE WORLD. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
 
Active
A Christian in “NAME” only can lose their salvation it happens every day! To know “about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit” is no guarantee that a person is saved! Only those who “KNOW” God have eternal life!

Jesus said....

John 17:3 And THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE, THAT THEY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of GOD HAS COME AND HAS GIVEN US UNDERSTANDING, SO THAT WE MAY KNOW HIM who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Jesus referred to himself in many different ways, such as “the bread of life”, “the true vine”, “the Son of man who lays down his life.”, “the good shepherd”, and also as a “sower” ect.. (Matt 13:37)

Jesus told his disciples that if they did not understand the parable of the sower, then they will not be able to understand any parable. The parable of the sower is the granddaddy of all parables!!! The parable of the "sower" sets the stage not only for ALL the parables in scripture that Jesus spoke about but also the entire New Testament!!! Get this one wrong, and all of our understanding of what we read about in the New Testament, and what we thought we knew about a brother, or sister losing their salvation will be completely in error!!!

Jesus said.....

Mar 4:13 And he said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? HOW THEN WILL YOU UNDERSTAND ALL THE PARABLES?

This parable was so important for his followers to understand that Jesus did not leave up to them to try, and figure it out on their own, so he explains it to them clearly.

Jesus referred to the Word of God as a “SEED” which must be planted into the soil. Seeds do not produce fruit out of the soil except after a certain time elapses. Fruit is what determines if a person is saved or not! The very first fruit the Word of God produces in a person's life is the “NEW BIRTH

1Pe 1:23 BEING BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible SEED, but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth forever.

Jesus explains....

Mat 13:18 "Hear then the parable of the sower:
Mat 13:19 When anyone HEARS THE WORD OF THE KINGDOM AND DOES NOT UNDERSTAND IT, THE EVIL ONE COMES AND SNATCHES AWAY WHAT HAS BEEN SOWN IN HIS HEART. This is what was sown along the path. (ESV)

(This first person hears the Word of God, and immediately the evil ones steal the Word out of their heart. They never get saved, and never produce fruit unto salvation.)

Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who HEARS THE WORD AND IMMEDIATELY RECEIVES IT WITH JOY,
Mat 13:21 YET HE HAS NO ROOT IN HIMSELF, BUT ENDURES FOR A WHILE, AND WHEN TRIBULATION OR PERSECUTION ARISES ON ACCOUNT OF THE WORD, IMMEDIATELY HE FALLS AWAY. (ESV)

(This second person hears the Word, receives it with joy, but never allows the Word to take root in himself, and later falls away. Without roots, fruit can never be produced unto salvation. This can be used to describe a person who abides in the vine for a while, but never produces fruit, so he is cut off from the vine.)

Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. (ESV)

(This third person is the scariest of them all. He hears the Word of God, but the cares of this world prevent it from producing fruit unto salvation. Church's are filled to capacity with these kinds of people. They receive the Word, but never get saved, but they think they are!!! Notice: they never fall away, but never get saved either. They are cut off from the vine because they never produced fruit. Have you ever spotted these kinds of people in your church gatherings? There is no joy or peace in their lives, and they look and act just like the world!! They carry Bibles but have no clue what scriptures say or means, but they sure look cool!)

Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who HEARS THE WORD and UNDERSTANDS IT. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty." (ESV)

(The last and final kind of person is the one who HEARS THE WORD OF GOD, UNDERSTANDS IT and PRODUCES FRUIT UNTO SALVATION. He remains in the vine, and produces much fruit. These people are easy to spot within any Church.)

These four kinds of people that Jesus was describing here are typical to those found in every Church.
There is no such thing as a Christian bearing good fruit and then all of a sudden producing no or bad fruit, which is impossible!!

Jesus said.....

Mat 7:18 A GOOD TREE CANNOT BRING FORTH EVIL FRUIT, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM.

(If a good tree can NEVER produce BAD FRUIT as Jesus said here in verse 18, then a tree that produces no fruit or bad fruit, never did produce good fruit at all!!!)

All of the Apostles who wrote to the Church's knew there were many in their congregations to whom they wrote who were not saved, which is why they said many things that were kind of rough for them to hear. Even, Jesus knew that many in the Church's he spoke about in the book of Revelations were not saved, which is why he spoke things in an attempt for them to get right and to make a commitment, which requires a “decision” and to give all of themselves to him for salvation.

Faith which comes from the seed of the Word God always gives faith so that they can gain ACCESS to GRACE by which one is saved to the person who has decided he wants it!!

Eph 2:8 For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also WE HAVE ACCESS BY FAITH INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Who are the people who overcome this world?

1John 5:4 For EVERYONE WHO HAS BEEN BORN OF GOD OVERCOMES THE WORLD. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
I am a OSAS proponent. Not going into
any great debate with scriptures to support my case or argue with anyone. I feel that I am a "Born Again" Christian and not going to go in any detail on that either but being one , God has put it into my heart that this condition is because of His free grace and that falling away is not possible..
Where can I go where God is not?
 
Loyal
if you was bought and paid for and purchase by the blood of Jesus, once you was a slave of sin but now a slave unto righteousness and Jesus is now your master. Notice purchase with His blood and you no not belong to yourself anymore. And have been sealed by the "Holy Spirit" of God, how can you run away, or you cannot just quit, you are a slave. you cannot hide, God has Angels to hunt you down and bring you back, if it gets that far out of hand. Where are you going to go. you do not own yourself. You were paid for in full. There are no Christians running around here free! You was a slave before you were a "christian" and you are a slave after you become a "christian", "OSAS" "Once Slave Always Slave" until your Coronation and you have "the Crown of Life" and full "SonShip" at Your ceremony. it is not that easy, and if you keep running away, God has a "WHIP" that has your name on it, and He will use it on you! And if you are His, You will start Singing "From all who Blessing flows" Hallelujah!
 
Active
I am a OSAS proponent. Not going into
any great debate with scriptures to support my case or argue with anyone. I feel that I am a "Born Again" Christian and not going to go in any detail on that either but being one , God has put it into my heart that this condition is because of His free grace and that falling away is not possible..
Where can I go where God is not?
What does OSAS stand for? :innocent:
 
Loyal
Once Saved, Always Saved.

There's a legitimate debate about a number of Bible texts on this. If your name has been written in the book of life, can it be erased? Anyone who has been around for a while will know people who formerly followed Jesus, but have fallen away. Were they saved and then abandoned their salvation? Or maybe they had the outward appearance of being saved, but no deeper reality.

I'm happy to lose an argument on the above.

There's also a dangerous element, due to a quick-results approach to evangelism that ignores discipleship, the community of faith, obedience and spiritual maturity. At its worst, people are given a false assurance that if they've prayed a prayer of salvation sincerely, then their salvation is absolutely secure for eternity. The logic is: one moment of sincerity before God is enough -- there's no barrier to a lifetime of vice, jealousy, dishonesty,selfishnes and hatred, because Jesus has paid for it.
 
Loyal
A Christian in “NAME” only can lose their salvation it happens every day! To know “about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit” is no guarantee that a person is saved! Only those who “KNOW” God have eternal life


Greetings brother,

This is where the 'sloppiness' of the use of the word Christian shows clearly.

Many think they are Christian's for a multitude of reasons e know about, but unless they are born again from above they are not Christian's.

So those who thought they were Christian's and were never saved were never Christian's. Many church goers are not Christian's, some ministers are not Christian's, but think they are.

We are purchased through the blood of Christ, Christ paid the price we should pay, so we don't have to. We pass from darkness to light, our sins are washed away, remembered no more, we as saved soul no longer practice sin, we practice righteousness, the devil is no longer our father, God is our Father. We are saved or we are lost, Jesus paid the price for our sin's if we are not saved we have to pay the price ourselves. If we think we are a Christian, we step a lost soul, if we are a Christian we know we are, the Holy Spirit abides in us, Jesus abides in us, we abide in Him. If there is not this abiding, the Holy Spirit is not in the persons heart, they are spiritually dead. The deceiver of souls is always at work we can tell a tree by its fruits, but the person cannot see it so believe a lie.
 
Active
Greetings brother,

This is where the 'sloppiness' of the use of the word Christian shows clearly.

Many think they are Christian's for a multitude of reasons e know about, but unless they are born again from above they are not Christian's.

So those who thought they were Christian's and were never saved were never Christian's. Many church goers are not Christian's, some ministers are not Christian's, but think they are.

We are purchased through the blood of Christ, Christ paid the price we should pay, so we don't have to. We pass from darkness to light, our sins are washed away, remembered no more, we as saved soul no longer practice sin, we practice righteousness, the devil is no longer our father, God is our Father. We are saved or we are lost, Jesus paid the price for our sin's if we are not saved we have to pay the price ourselves. If we think we are a Christian, we step a lost soul, if we are a Christian we know we are, the Holy Spirit abides in us, Jesus abides in us, we abide in Him. If there is not this abiding, the Holy Spirit is not in the persons heart, they are spiritually dead. The deceiver of souls is always at work we can tell a tree by its fruits, but the person cannot see it so believe a lie.
Hi Paul,
What opened my eyes to the fact that my name was written in the book of life, came about by something that had nothing to do with the book of life. I opened the bible one day, I was not, at the time, a Christian, and heard Jesus tell Pontious Pilate that his kingdom was not of this world. It struck me at that moment, that I, also, was not of this world. I didn't fit in, I had nothing in common with anyone I knew. This caused me to coninue reading the gospels where I came to realise that the teachings of Jesus made sense to the understandings of my heart. Giving was easy for me, money meant nothing to me, so to give it away was not a problem. If I saw someone in need, compassion was natural to me. turning the other cheek, seemed to me the obvious way to defuse anger, in fact none of the commands of Jesus seemed alien. I have come to believe that those whose names are written in the book of life are born in tune with the teachings of Jesus. those whose names are not written in the book are born opposed to those teachings. So the thought of someone whose name is written in the book going against it, I would say, is extemely unlikely. blessings.
 
Loyal
Hi Paul,
What opened my eyes to the fact that my name was written in the book of life, came about by something that had nothing to do with the book of life. I opened the bible one day, I was not, at the time, a Christian, and heard Jesus tell Pontious Pilate that his kingdom was not of this world. It struck me at that moment, that I, also, was not of this world. I didn't fit in, I had nothing in common with anyone I knew. This caused me to coninue reading the gospels where I came to realise that the teachings of Jesus made sense to the understandings of my heart. Giving was easy for me, money meant nothing to me, so to give it away was not a problem. If I saw someone in need, compassion was natural to me. turning the other cheek, seemed to me the obvious way to defuse anger, in fact none of the commands of Jesus seemed alien. I have come to believe that those whose names are written in the book of life are born in tune with the teachings of Jesus. those whose names are not written in the book are born opposed to those teachings. So the thought of someone whose name is written in the book going against it, I would say, is extemely unlikely. blessings.


Smooth ride brother, not all have a smooth ride, pity.

I understand what you are saying my friend, maybe I have a concern in my heart that someone who doesn't fit in this life may read what you say wrongly, but I do appreciate what you say.

For most we are not aliens to the world until the spirit enters our heart through confession and acceptance, others it takes a little more time but if the spirit is in their hearts fruits will show.

Fortunately none of us know our name is in the Book of Life and The Lamb, we are not shown this, can you imagine how many would say 'My Names in the Book of Life Ay Ho, and follow the world they would go. We are not meant to know, we are to search the scriptures, grow in faith, and Trust the Lord and lean not on our own understanding.

Bless you brother.
 
Active
Smooth ride brother, not all have a smooth ride, pity.

I understand what you are saying my friend, maybe I have a concern in my heart that someone who doesn't fit in this life may read what you say wrongly, but I do appreciate what you say.

For most we are not aliens to the world until the spirit enters our heart through confession and acceptance, others it takes a little more time but if the spirit is in their hearts fruits will show.

Fortunately none of us know our name is in the Book of Life and The Lamb, we are not shown this, can you imagine how many would say 'My Names in the Book of Life Ay Ho, and follow the world they would go. We are not meant to know, we are to search the scriptures, grow in faith, and Trust the Lord and lean not on our own understanding.

Bless you brother.
You and I see things differently Paul, you study, I feed. When I open the scriptures I just read, or feed, if you will. As I digest the food I eat, I experience, on occasions, an epiphany and my understanding is expanded. I don't believe there are negatives in the kingdom of heaven. If and when I speak out my understandings, they go out, and scripture tells my they will not return to me void. Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish all that I want it to, and it will prosper everywhere I send it. We have to have faith that if by chance we say something that is not edifying, the Lord will render it harmless.
 
Loyal
You and I see things differently Paul, you study, I feed. When I open the scriptures I just read, or feed, if you will. As I digest the food I eat, I experience, on occasions, an epiphany and my understanding is expanded. I don't believe there are negatives in the kingdom of heaven. If and when I speak out my understandings, they go out, and scripture tells my they will not return to me void. Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish all that I want it to, and it will prosper everywhere I send it. We have to have faith that if by chance we say something that is not edifying, the Lord will render it harmless.
we must walk in the Spirit, We do not speak and ask God to back us up, We hold our peace and if there is no guidance or no leading of the Spirit of GOD. We shut up and hold our peace . He does not follow us, we follow Him. We follow His lead. Just because you have read some words does not mean it applies to you any time you feel like speaking. Gods Word does not work like that.

You right you do see things differently. And "I" do see you have a seeing problem. All of those "I"'s, recorded in your statement.

sorry, you open yourself up for that one.:eyes: "can we all get along":pensive:
 
Active
we must walk in the Spirit, We do not speak and ask God to back us up, We hold our peace and if there is no guidance or no leading of the Spirit of GOD. We shut up and hold our peace . He does not follow us, we follow Him. We follow His lead. Just because you have read some words does not mean it applies to you any time you feel like speaking. Gods Word does not work like that.

You right you do see things differently. And "I" do see you have a seeing problem. All of those "I"'s, recorded in your statement.

sorry, you open yourself up for that one.:eyes: "can we all get along":pensive:
As I say Ploughboy we see things differently, I share what I have been shown. You berate anybody with a different understanding, and not with kindness. but I do hope we can get along.
 
Loyal
Hey, Trevor, you ain't mad are you? you know we all need a little spice in our life. You know i know you are my brother in Christ and I do love you. you know it is kinda nice to have brothers and sisters over there in the UK, is not that something, we are going to know one another through out eternity.:p
 
Loyal
Everyone starts out "looking through a glass darkly", but then as one grows in the Lord and in the power of his might we start to see more clearly.

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
 
Loyal
You and I see things differently Paul, you study, I feed. When I open the scriptures I just read, or feed, if you will. As I digest the food I eat, I experience, on occasions, an epiphany and my understanding is expanded. I don't believe there are negatives in the kingdom of heaven. If and when I speak out my understandings, they go out, and scripture tells my they will not return to me void. Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish all that I want it to, and it will prosper everywhere I send it. We have to have faith that if by chance we say something that is not edifying, the Lord will render it harmless.


Hi Trevor, no one method is right for all, no one method will cover everything.

I like to read and feed, it is an excellent method, but it is only as good as the translation. There are times when research into the true meaning of a word makes more sense, it gives you a deeper insight, then read and feed. Feed on Him in our heart with Thanks giving and Praise.

We search the scriptures, we submit to the Holy Spirit who guides us in The Word and the Truth in The Word.

As a builder, then building surveyor, now retired, I have to do the groundwork, I have to make sure the foundations are right, then I build on that.

Bless you
 
Active
Hey, Trevor, you ain't mad are you? you know we all need a little spice in our life. You know i know you are my brother in Christ and I do love you. you know it is kinda nice to have brothers and sisters over there in the UK, is not that something, we are going to know one another through out eternity.:p
I'm not mad PB, it would be boring if we couldn't cross swords with one another, to know you eternaly sounds pretty good to me. If you ever visit Britain, you've got somewhere to stay. I promise I won't talk too much. :no_mouth:
 
Loyal
I'm not mad PB, it would be boring if we couldn't cross swords with one another, to know you eternaly sounds pretty good to me. If you ever visit Britain, you've got somewhere to stay. I promise I won't talk too much. :no_mouth:
Thank you:relieved:
 
Loyal
Greetings

I agree there are a number of verses that state or imply the OSAS.

So the question I ask is, whey is there confusion over this?

Without a full study on the OSAS verses vs the falling away, and similar verses, which refer to people who were Christians and no longer practice the faith or leave it completely I personally am not sure, comments welcome. But what I think could be the case in this situation is:

People thought they were saved but were not, they didn't have the Holy Spirit so belonged to sin, the world and the devil and therefore is wasn't hard for satan to tempt them back to the old worldly sinful ways.

But they were adamant they were saved and fell away, may be they were, but doesn't mean they were saved.

But scripture tells us, we can tell a tree by it's fruit, so true, but if the growing tree hasn't got fruit yet we cannot tell whether the fruit will be good fruit or bad fruit, so they are wolves in sheeps clothing, appearing as angels of light but still belong to, sin, the world and the devil.

If the Holy Spirit abides in a persons heart, they know they are born again, they thirst for the Word, if a person doesn't thirst for The Word, they will thirst for the world and all that belongs to the world. There are many attend places of worship, for a top up of the spirit so to speak, enough to run till next week, once they leave the place of worship they are back to worldly ways, when they return next week they put in sheeps clothing for an hour or so.

OSAS is the Truly Born Again from above believers who take up there cross daily, feed on the Lord and The Word in their hearts with thanksgiving, Praise God every day, they know they are His and He knows they are His sheep.

Shalom
 
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