Ephesians 1:11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE
COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL."

B-A-C said:

God wants us to "choose Him". He doesn't want to force us.
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How does your comment above fit with Ephesians 1:11 where your Bible says he works all things according to his own will? Not ours.
And if those who have obtained the down payment on the inheritance because of predestination, whose to say that ALL are not presdestinated to receive the
same or similar inheritance?

Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded ALL in unbelief, that he may have mercy upon ALL." If this is his will, how does your choice have anything to do with it?

Personally when I received that Life through the Holy Ghost baptism there was no dragging me or FORCING me to choose, as unspeakable joy was the order of the
next several yrs as the knowledge of God actually existing and the Bible being the truth was something that caused a fire to burn deep down inside and there was
never enough to feed upon so it seemed. But line upon line and precept upon precept before things I thought I understood became clearer and gained a spiritual
meaning, a higher meaning, understanding of his plan for ALL. And that took a few years. I felt like I got special treatment, but the Holy Ghost who is our teacher
taught Paul, and John, and the other disciples so maybe it was very similar for them as it was for me. All I am sure of is there was never a forcing as just knowing
God was really there and Jesus was sacrificed for our sin and reconciliation back to God was enough to chase after him for the rest of this earthly life.

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Samson2020 said:

Ephesians 1:11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE
COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL."

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... and 'what is' His will?

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Samson2020 said:

So God is sovereign but he allows you to choose him?

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Yes brother, God is Sovereign, He is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, He knows the beginning from the end, He knows what you are going to say before you say it, He gives us a choice but He knows who will accept Jesus and who will not, that is why He could put the names in the Book of Life and the Lamb at the beginning. Amazing but true.

We all have a choice, we are either saved or not, He knows our choice but does not take away our choice, but because we have a choice if we don't accept Jesus we are already condemned by our own decision or indecision.

John 3:16-21 (NIV2011)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [CHOICE]
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [CHOICE]
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

Shalom

B-A-C said:

1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

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This indeed I agree whole heartedly is his will.

Brother-Paul said:

We all have a choice, we are either saved or not, He knows our choice but does not take away our choice, but because we have a choice if we don't accept Jesus we are already condemned by our own decision or indecision.

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I would call this salvation by self righteousness. Any time I hear the word I in front of chose him its self righteousness speaking and therefore the eyes are
blinded to the higher truths. So as he is your Father I will back away and let him bring you to a higher understanding in his own time, but leave with a few
thoughts to chew on.
If you have a choice then what need is there to speak of predestination as the Bible declares? Are you a child of God because you chose to be or because he
predestinated you to be?

So in this version of Gods plan it's believe what I said or else burn forever in a place called hell. That by the way I have to sustain for all eternity if you don't choose me.
What a pity they did not choose me whom they didn't even know now I have to burn them forever. O well. That sound about right. And does this sound like freedom
to you? Believing that the majority of mankind will roast in the eternal fire forever because they didn't make the right choice like you did with no knowledge? And this
includes most of your family members as well but your ok with that because they're gonna get what they want or deserve right? But Paul on the other hand a CHOSEN
vessel gets a special visitation from the Lord who speaks to him from the heavens and blinds him and sits him down for 3 days and shows him what great things he
must suffer for the gospels sake. But no we can't do that for everybody just a few here and there and the rest get to burn up because he didn't show the same mercy
to them as he did to Paul.
PS Hell is an enemy that is destroyed along with death near the end, so where will he be putting all those eternally burning souls then?

What choice did those who lived before Jesus was brought on the scene have?
And did Jesus' sacrifice remove the penalty for ALL sin or just some of it? If it was less than ALL then the Devil wins somewhat and we both know he is defeated and
wins nothing.

Samson2020 said:

so where will he be putting all those eternally burning souls then?

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In the lake of fire.

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Hell is a temporary place (well, if you can call thousands of years temporary)

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Eventually everyone who is in Hades will be released for a while. ( Rev 20:13; ) Long enough to face the judgment anyway.
But the lake of Fire is a permanent place.

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

My dear brother Samson2020,

I feel your mind is set, I say this in love, so we can only leave it for you to find out, we will find out also, but it is not a case of who and when my friend, it a case of respecting each others views in love.

So I do not say...
So as he is your Father I will back away and let him bring you to a higher understanding in his own time, but leave with a few thoughts to chew on.But I would like to add...

It is not salvation by self righteousness, no not at all, God 'calls' us, we do not call him, He is calling us to give us a free gift, He wants us to accept His Free gift, after all He and His Son went through so much for us. But it is an invitation from God, it is a gift, a gift has to be accepted. Accepting a righteous gift is not self righteousness.

Not as I see it brother.

Bless you

Brother-Paul said:

It is not salvation by self righteousness, no not at all, God 'calls' us, we do not call him, He is calling us to give us a free gift, He wants us to accept His Free gift, after all He and His Son went through so much for us. But it is an invitation from God, it is a gift, a gift has to be accepted. Accepting a righteous gift is not self righteousness.

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As there is no righteous in us. There is no unrighteousness in God. Yet unrighteousness exists. Where does it come from if there is no free-will.

Samson2020 said:

Believing that the majority of mankind will roast in the eternal fire forever because they didn't make the right choice like you did with no knowledge? And this
includes most of your family members as well but your ok with that because they're gonna get what they want or deserve right?

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This brother is one of the silliest statements I have ever read.

I cannot image one true born-again Christian being, as you put it, alright with our family members destined for hell. Do we not pray for them daily? Do we not hold them in our heart constantly praying for their salvation? Of course we do.

But God wrote the rule book, he gives us chance to repent and accept Jesus, Jesus paid the price we should pay as we both know, he paid it in full for every saved soul.

There is always a price to pay for sin, the wages of sin is death, the lost souls pays that price. But those who are born again know Jesus paid the price for us.

I was talking with a Christian friend last year about our Lord's Return in Glory... O Come Lord Jesus, he said to me, I want that also brother but I want my family to be saved, my heart is troubled for them if Jesus returns before they accept him.

I understood his feelings, his concerns, but why was he worried, he was considering heavenly things in an earthly way. I asked a question, have you prayed to God through Jesus for their salvation? He replied yes. Then you have nothing to worry about, Jesus has intercede your prayers, they are with the Father, waiting for their hearts to change, if Jesus was to return tonight do you not think those prayers will be answered, what you are praying is God's will, at the right time the Spirit will quicken, prayers will be answered, have faith. Trust in The Lord and lean not on our own understanding.

God's will will always be done.

Bless you brother

Samson2020 said:

So in this version of Gods plan it's believe what I said or else burn forever in a place called hell. That by the way I have to sustain for all eternity if you don't choose me.
What a pity they did not choose me whom they didn't even know now I have to burn them forever. O well.

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Rom 3:5; But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.)

B-A-C said:

As there is no righteous in us. There is no unrighteousness in God. Yet unrighteousness exists. Where does it come from if there is no free-will.

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There is no unrighteousness in God, but there is unrighteousness in the world.

We who are born again are being made righteous, we are to 'practice righteousness'. God takes us as we are, then moulds us to be the people he wants us to be, as we practice righteousness we are being prepared for heaven, we will never be totally righteous this side of receiving our glorious bodies, but as we grow in faith, as we continue to practice righteousness, we become 'more like' Jesus.

I do not believe as saved souls we are sinners, no, I agree we will sin but we repent and are forgiven, we recognise sin (singular) and aim not to sin again. Now the world are sinners, because they sin and din again, they won't acknowledge they are sinning so continue to do so. As scripture says those who are not saved belong to 'sin, the world and the devil'

We all have a choice, to sin or not to sin, to accept what is sin or not to accept it, to accept the free gift or not to accept it.

It is a free will choice, as with all choices they come with terms and conditions, especially sin which has to be paid for by the lost soul or by Jesus which has been paid for us in advance.

Thank you Lord.