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Is this true?

Hi BlessedBeyondBelief, You say that man was formed of the earth itself as an agent to redeem it. It was his purpose. He was to learn to walk with God in the Garden, to intimately know Him and be the seed of the nation.... But that didn't work out. That intimates that God made a mistake. The God that is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. God created the earth, the garden, the trees, the serpent (Satan) and Adam and Eve and put them all together. Being the God that is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, would he have made a mistake? or was it part of a scenario that he had in mind to bring man to an understanding, and maturity. As you intimate we don't have the wisdom to understand the intricacies of the mind of God and I should imagine that sending us a teacher to enlighten us was all part of his intention. The teachings of Jesus introduce us to God, his justice and his love and after battling with Satan and his demons we become mature, strong friends of Him, his Son and His Spirit, thus enriching his creation. It might be said, that man has brought the earth to destruction in learning this lesson, but if God can create an earth, it's no big deal for him to bring about a new one. We should rejoice that God would prove his love for mankind by coming to earth as a man and dying on a cross for our salvation. That is love!!!
It doesn't infer God made a mistake. GOD has a perfect will and man has freewill to align with God's will or go completely against it. That's what didn't work out. Just cus God for knew that would happen doesn't mean that was exactly what He wanted.
 
It doesn't infer God made a mistake. GOD has a perfect will and man has freewill to align with God's will or go completely against it. That's what didn't work out. Just cus God for knew that would happen doesn't mean that was exactly what He wanted.
Hi BlessedBeyondBelief, Scripture tells me that I was chosen before the world was made, that means that I was chosen before he created Adam, Eve, the Garden, the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil and Satan. If he chose me thus, he must have known my sinful condition, that in fact was dire, and the reason for it. If this is the case, then he must have known, before he brought about the scenario in the garden exactly what the outcome would be. I believe none of us realise, the power, the wisdom, the insight and ingenuity of the Lord and to try to explain him is in fact futile.
 
I believe none of us realise, the power, the wisdom, the insight and ingenuity of the Lord and to try to explain him is in fact futile.

or is 'vanity' a 'better' word?

Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
Ecclesiastes 1:2


Bless you ....><>
 
@Trevor -- God created Adam and Eve and put them in a perfect environment -- satan was on earth because he had rebelled in heaven and was thrown out to be down where we are. God had given Adam and then Eve One direction. They chose to listen to satan Instead of listening to God. God had told them One thing, satan had 'adjusted' God's Word to them. They chose to believe the 'adjustment'. Touching that one fruit tree was their Only restriction. But That tree was of the knowledge of both good and Evil. They were told what would happen if they Touched it , much less ate of it.

So -- looking back -- we can see and still Do see just how evil people can be. Left to our own devices -- we are capable of horrendous evil. The Hitlers and Nero's of this world. And people like Jeffry Dahmer -- as horrible a person as he was -- he ended up in prison in solitary -- his father prayed and reached out to him continually -- he finally Did acknowledge and Did accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior. He had God's forgiveness but couldn't forgive himself. He'd asked to be put in regular prison surroundings knowing that he wouldn't survive and it wasn't long before he was found dead.

Back to the subject. God actually regretted that He had made mankind. But there Was the one man and his family who'd survived all the evil and still lived a righteous life for God. You commented that Noah was Chosen -- God Knew -- but I wouldn't say he was 'chosen' per se -- he Was the only righteous person Left on earth and was Told by God how to build the ark because He Would destroy all of mankind, and the animal world. God Did start humanity the second time with Noah and his family. And , as a result of the world-wide flood -- the earth ended up Very different than it had been.

It's because of/ through the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross -- and His death, burial and bodily resurrection that a person CAN have forgiveness of sins

Saul was definitely determined to rid the world of believers. / Christians. But God got his attention that one day on the road. He had to go through a process to receive his sight again. And then he had to prove himself to God's people. They didn't trust his intentions and for good reasons. And, yes, Paul Was used greatly by being given the ability by the Holy Spirit to write at least those 4 Epistles of the New Testament.

All of Scripture is God's Word -- Moses was Also used Greatly -- he was called a Friend of God. And David / King David was a man after God's own heart. And Solomon was granted to be the wisest?

We all tend to want to 'adjust' God's Word to a certain extent -- it's in our human nature. We all have our little pet sins -- we tell ourselves that God understands us and knows our inner weaknesses and it's not Really hurting anyone else. So.......

Born-again believers Will feel like 'aliens' in this world. The more we are trying to live Godly lives -- the harder it is to do so. But we Will have inner peace -- well -- a more settled inner feeling when we Do manage to live a closer life. And something else will then start getting to us.
Hi Sue, I would have thought a perfect environment for Adam and Eve would have been one without Satan, although for God's purposes it was perfect. God doesn't make mistakes, so if Satan rebelled, I believe he was designed to do so. God uses Satan, read Job. Satan had to ask permission to interact with Job and then God made restrictions and only allowed Satan to go so far, Satan has to obey God. When Jesus pointed to Judas as the one who would betray him the Devil then entered him, would the devil have entered him if Jesus hadn't pointed him out?. The question has to be asked, would Judas have betrayed Jesus if the devil had not entered him? again, Peter was told by Jesus that he would deny him three times, would Peter have denied him, had Jesus not prophesied he would? There are things in the Spiritual realm that are far beyond our understanding and we are only given glimpses through scripture.
You say born again believers will feel like aliens in this world. The apostle Paul goes further. 1 Peter 2:11 Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. We are Sue, citizens of the kingdom of heaven and Satan has no jurisdiction over us. We need to know this otherwise Satan will have an edge. bless you.
 
Well -- God is sovereign -- His will Will prevail. He Also does work with mankind.

We don't know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before satan entered the scene. We Do know that Nod existed because that's where Cain went and found a wife. Cain, Abel and Seth are the only children that we're told about. So - - as the children of Adam and Eve grew and were able To wander on their own they were able to develop the land of Nod.
 
It doesn't infer God made a mistake. GOD has a perfect will and man has freewill to align with God's will or go completely against it. That's what didn't work out. Just cus God for knew that would happen doesn't mean that was exactly what He wanted.
BlessedBeyondBelief, Hi, You say that man has free will, scripture refutes that. John 15: 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit - fruit that will last - and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. Then again, John 12: 40 He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn - and I would heal them. So here scripture tells us, we did not choose we were chosen and God blinds peoples eyes and hardens their hearts. Again scripture tells us that the names of the elect were written in the book of life before the world was made and if there is an elect then there must be an unelected. And Romans 8 : 30 And those he predestined he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. If a person has free will and is strong enough to obey all the law, why would they need Jesus?
 
Man might have a free will to do evil, because that is what he wants to do! But a will to choose God , he cannot, because he has not the ability neither the desire to do so. So he has to be drawn [dragged] chosen, elected, by a irresistible grace. “No man CAN come to the Son unless The Father draw him”
King James Version
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Man cannot will his way to Jesus or God. He is in love with darkness! It is his human nature. He is a Sinner. He is not a sinner because he sins. He sins because he is a sinner! And that is all a sinner can do is sin against GOD.
 
Well -- God is sovereign -- His will Will prevail. He Also does work with mankind.

We don't know how long Adam and Eve were in the garden before satan entered the scene. We Do know that Nod existed because that's where Cain went and found a wife. Cain, Abel and Seth are the only children that we're told about. So - - as the children of Adam and Eve grew and were able To wander on their own they were able to develop the land of Nod.
Actually Sue, to go off topic somewhat. You mentioning Cain has reminded me of thoughts I've had regarding God's attitudes toward miscreants, Cain killed Able, God's reaction to that murder was, to me, quite surprising. He placed protection around Cain and warned people to leave him alone. Again when Jacob deceitfully conned Esau out of his inheritance, God backed him up and Jacob received the blessing. When Abraham passed his wife off as his sister to pharaoh he was not held to account. For the God of justice to overlook such serious crimes leaves me bemused, perhaps someone has thoughts on this?
 
Man might have a free will to do evil, because that is what he wants to do! But a will to choose God , he cannot, because he has not the ability neither the desire to do so. So he has to be drawn [dragged] chosen, elected, by a irresistible grace. “No man CAN come to the Son unless The Father draw him”
King James Version
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Man cannot will his way to Jesus or God. He is in love with darkness! It is his human nature. He is a Sinner. He is not a sinner because he sins. He sins because he is a sinner! And that is all a sinner can do is sin against GOD.
Amen PloughBoy.
 
BlessedBeyondBelief, Hi, You say that man has free will, scripture refutes that. John 15: 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit - fruit that will last - and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. Then again, John 12: 40 He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn - and I would heal them. So here scripture tells us, we did not choose we were chosen and God blinds peoples eyes and hardens their hearts. Again scripture tells us that the names of the elect were written in the book of life before the world was made and if there is an elect then there must be an unelected. And Romans 8 : 30 And those he predestined he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. If a person has free will and is strong enough to obey all the law, why would they need Jesus?
We are experiencing what has been written. No man knows the fullness of what has been ordained since the beginning, we are just living it out and only God knows.... Your conjecture is all semantics. It's speaks to God's perspective outside of time, but we are within time unaware of any predestination. We are realizing and experiencing what has been written. Within our time and our perspective, we have free will. God just knows how everything plays out which doesn't affect our free will.....

You are swinging the discussion in a different direction. I said nothing of law or commandments and the need of salvation/ Messiah.
 
We should rejoice that God would prove his love for mankind by coming to earth as a man and dying on a cross for our salvation. That is love!!!

Almost:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life."
One cannot beget ones self, they can only beget a child!!

An omnipotent being cannot die, so God had to send a son in the form of flesh and blood, the Man Jesus who was Gods offspring to die for our sin and show us the way
unto our own reconciliation to our Father.

"And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD,( AND) JESUS CHRIST, WHOM THOU (God) HAST SENT." John 17:3
IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEM BOTH THEN WHAT IS YOUR STATUS OF LIFE ETERNAL?


LUKE 2:52 " And Jesus GREW IN WISDOM and stature, and in FAVOR WITH GOD and man."

Please explain how this is possible if Jesus in your opinion was God? How did Jesus grow in WISDOM as an Omniscient being knows everything?
And also how did Jesus grow in FAVOR with GOD if he was GOD? Did he grow in favor with himself?

Or was he simply a MAN from Nazareth approved of God by miracles signs and wonders which God did? Acts 2:22

"Though he were a Son yet
LEARNED HE OBEDIENCE BY THE THINGS THAT HE SUFFERED."

Why would God as Jesus need to learn obedience to himself??
 
Almost:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life."
One cannot beget ones self, they can only beget a child!!

An omnipotent being cannot die, so God had to send a son in the form of flesh and blood, the Man Jesus who was Gods offspring to die for our sin and show us the way
unto our own reconciliation to our Father.

"And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD,( AND) JESUS CHRIST, WHOM THOU (God) HAST SENT." John 17:3
IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEM BOTH THEN WHAT IS YOUR STATUS OF LIFE ETERNAL?


LUKE 2:52 " And Jesus GREW IN WISDOM and stature, and in FAVOR WITH GOD and man."

Please explain how this is possible if Jesus in your opinion was God? How did Jesus grow in WISDOM as an Omniscient being knows everything?
And also how did Jesus grow in FAVOR with GOD if he was GOD? Did he grow in favor with himself?

Or was he simply a MAN from Nazareth approved of God by miracles signs and wonders which God did? Acts 2:22

"Though he were a Son yet
LEARNED HE OBEDIENCE BY THE THINGS THAT HE SUFFERED."

Why would God as Jesus need to learn obedience to himself??
Hi Samson, John 8: 58 "I tell you the truth" Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born. I am!" At this they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the Temple. Exodus 3 :14 God said to Moses. "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites 'I AM has sent me to you.' Samson, what I have written here is the written word of God make of it what you will.
 
And we have John 10:30 "I and My Father are one."

Samson -- in your post --you used various colors when typing your verses - the white obviously does not show up against the white background. So , as a result, some of your post can't be read.
 
Part of the 'working' of the Godhead / trinity / is that Jesus Christ is the 2nd part of the Godhead - and - That part came as God incarnate -- God is Spirit -- so He came as Jesus Christ to die on the cross -- shed His blood for our sins -- died and was buried and rose again bodily and after 40 days ascended back up to heaven to set at the right hand of God the Father.

And the Holy Spirit is the part that convicts a person of their sinfulness. Which means that some time during that person's life here on earth -- He / she will accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior.
 
Hi Samson, John 8: 58 "I tell you the truth" Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born. I am!" At this they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the Temple. Exodus 3 :14 God said to Moses. "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites 'I AM has sent me to you.' Samson, what I have written here is the written word of God make of it what you will.

Interesting that you use assumption instead of specific verse to try and make a point but yet never answer a single question. I would think this would be easy if you had
hard specific fact scripture.

I quoted specific scripture with specific language inspired by the Holy Ghost who said that Jesus was the begotten Son of God and Jesus himself says the same thing in
John 10:36, basically he says they called him a blasphemer because he said he was the SON OF GOD, not God, but yet you would say the same thing by saying he was not the SON.
John the Baptist said something similar about him as well. That he was preferred before me because he was before me.
So question is who was it that preferred Jesus over John?
Same issue with Abraham, as Jesus tells us that there was no greater man born of a woman than John the Baptist so Abraham must have been less great than
Jesus and John. And again who made the distinction of the lesser or greater. Just as no one knows the hour nor the day except his Father.
He also did not have the authority to say who would sit on his left or his right in his kingdom, so who does?
It's rather weird that in the face of overwhelming evidence to the humaness of Jesus that some believe themselves more spiritual by misunderstanding or twisting scripture
to make it fit their narrative. When there is ample evidence that Jesus was made to be sin who knew no sin by his Father, it wasn't his Father that was made to be sin! The
Law was written for a MAN to fulfill, not God. And that is why he SENT HIS SON, the MAN known as Jesus, to fulfill it and destroy the penalties for the breaking of the Law.

And we have John 10:30 "I and My Father are one."

And "MY Father is Greater than I" John 14:28 Can't be one and the same if one is greater than the other!

1 Co 6:17 "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one Spirit" And as he was joined unto the Lord in Spirit at the time he said that because of his baptism in the Holy Spirit
at Jordan, makes perfect sense he would say that.

Change your screen background to black. mine is black and I think the default color.
 
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, all power is GIVEN UNTO ME in heaven and in earth," Who GAVE him that power?

John 5:26-27 "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath HE GIVEN TO THE SON to have life within himself; and hath GIVEN HIM authority to execute judgement also;
because he is the SON OF MAN."

The Catholic hierarchy have a belief that Mary gave birth to God because she gave birth to Jesus. Same thing you guys are saying. That doesn't sound a bit weird? And now they pray to Mary as an intercessor, and reverence Mary as Gods mother. Really????
God created MAN and WOMAN but then was birthed himself from one of the women he created and it was his own Holy Spirit that impregnated the woman? How
much more ridiculous can this get before people wake up to the deception.
 
We're not talking about RCC -- but Bible.

A lot of God's Word doesn't especially make sense. A donkey talking in the Old Testament. The mother of Jesus being inpregnated by the Holy Spirit and Jesus being born as the result. Not biologically possible -- but it Did happen.

Mary Did give birth to the 2nd person of the Godhead. A once in a time in history happening.

The RCC teaches lots of non-Biblical things. Because Jesus Christ is the one and only Mediator between God and mankind. Jesus Christ was here on earth To die -- To point all of mankind to His Father in heaven.

And we also know that Mary was the Jewish young woman chosen by God to give birth to Jesus Christ. That she was engaged to marry Joseph and that once Jesus was born-- that Mary and Joseph continued to have 5 other children.

Yes, God created Adam and Eve. Scripture tells us that it was Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who came to this earth, by means of the virgin birth through Mary, impregnated by the Holy Spirit.

Now -- exactly What deception are you referring to.

Both of the John passages are true. While here on earth -- He Was here as God the father and in the Godhead -- The Father Is greater than Jesus Christ.
 
Part of the 'working' of the Godhead / trinity / is that Jesus Christ is the 2nd part of the Godhead - and - That part came as God incarnate -- God is Spirit -- so He came as Jesus Christ to die on the cross -- shed His blood for our sins -- died and was buried and rose again bodily and after 40 days ascended back up to heaven to set at the right hand of God the Father.

And the Holy Spirit is the part that convicts a person of their sinfulness. Which means that some time during that person's life here on earth -- He / she will accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior.
We are experiencing what has been written. No man knows the fullness of what has been ordained since the beginning, we are just living it out and only God knows.... Your conjecture is all semantics. It's speaks to God's perspective outside of time, but we are within time unaware of any predestination. We are realizing and experiencing what has been written. Within our time and our perspective, we have free will. God just knows how everything plays out which doesn't affect our free will.....

You are swinging the discussion in a different direction. I said nothing of law or commandments and the need of salvation/ Messiah.
I thought the purpose of a debating forum was to debate. And when we come across scripture that requires thought we throw our hats into the ring so as to speak and give it our best shot.
Interesting that you use assumption instead of specific verse to try and make a point but yet never answer a single question. I would think this would be easy if you had
hard specific fact scripture.

I quoted specific scripture with specific language inspired by the Holy Ghost who said that Jesus was the begotten Son of God and Jesus himself says the same thing in
John 10:36, basically he says they called him a blasphemer because he said he was the SON OF GOD, not God, but yet you would say the same thing by saying he was not the SON.
John the Baptist said something similar about him as well. That he was preferred before me because he was before me.
So question is who was it that preferred Jesus over John?
Same issue with Abraham, as Jesus tells us that there was no greater man born of a woman than John the Baptist so Abraham must have been less great than
Jesus and John. And again who made the distinction of the lesser or greater. Just as no one knows the hour nor the day except his Father.
He also did not have the authority to say who would sit on his left or his right in his kingdom, so who does?
It's rather weird that in the face of overwhelming evidence to the humaness of Jesus that some believe themselves more spiritual by misunderstanding or twisting scripture
to make it fit their narrative. When there is ample evidence that Jesus was made to be sin who knew no sin by his Father, it wasn't his Father that was made to be sin! The
Law was written for a MAN to fulfill, not God. And that is why he SENT HIS SON, the MAN known as Jesus, to fulfill it and destroy the penalties for the breaking of the Law.



And "MY Father is Greater than I" John 14:28 Can't be one and the same if one is greater than the other!

1 Co 6:17 "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one Spirit" And as he was joined unto the Lord in Spirit at the time he said that because of his baptism in the Holy Spirit
at Jordan, makes perfect sense he would say that.

Change your screen background to black. mine is black and I think the default color.
Samson hello, You claim I didn't answer your questions, well there were several of them and they from my recollection all referring to the identity of Jesus. You used scripture to verify your points. I answered you with scripture. The scripture I cited was Jesus claiming to be I AM, which according to Exodus was the name God told Moses to say he was. So perhaps you could give me your understanding of what Jesus meant by his statement to the Pharisees "before Abraham was born, I AM"?
 
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